Which comes first: Amp or Speakers Purchase?

[GTaudiophile]

Meaning, if you know of a good amp, do you go and buy it first and then the speakers, or speakers first, and then find the amp to match them?

Speaking of Amps: What are the best brands to look for? Any particular "wow" models that offer a lot of value for the money?

I know Onkyo is a favorite here. Any specific models? Other brands?

 

[Chronoshock]

It depends, in some cases buying an amp first is a bad idea if it turns out it'll provide insufficient power given you needs. You'll want to know speaker sensitivity, listening distance, and desired maximum output to determine how much power you'll need.
Also, are you talking about purchasing a receiver or a standalone amp? The former has additional criteria you'll want to consider (number of outputs, possibility of preouts, types of inputs, etc.) in addition to the question of power.

 

[Gillbot]

I usually pick them both up together to be sure I match them up well.

 

[sdifox]

first determine which speakers you like. then find out which amps complement them.

 

[mmntech]

Good speakers will last forever. Amps today don't. Something bigger and better is always on the horizon. Good speakers first, then amp.

 

[NutBucket]

Wait, do you want an amp or a receiver? Completely different animals here...

For example, this is an excellent power amp:

Whereas this would be a nice choice for a mid-range receiver:

 

[alcoholbob]

The caps on the crossover will have to be replaced eventually on the speakers. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[Howard]

The caps on the crossover will have to be replaced eventually on the speakers. Nothing lasts forever.

So do you want my short response or my long response?

 

[Tiamat]

Meaning, if you know of a good amp, do you go and buy it first and then the speakers, or speakers first, and then find the amp to match them?

Speaking of Amps: What are the best brands to look for? Any particular "wow" models that offer a lot of value for the money?

I know Onkyo is a favorite here. Any specific models? Other brands?

Here is my rule of thumb:

Anything with a processor, you buy last. That is, surround processor, receiver, blu-ray player etc. get bought last because those get updated very frequently (e.g. Hdmi x, connectivity, feature set, 3d, sound processing, etc.).

Speakers are generally first because they are only updated, perhaps, every 3-4 years; and the updates are generally small (tweak to driver, crossover, cabinet).

Amplifiers (if you are buying external amps) can also be purchased early (provided good deals). Amplifiers have almost no features except to provide power. Updates are generally on cosmetics and connectors. If you have an idea of type of speaker you want for the future, then amplifier is easy. If you are still unsure of type of speaker (horn vs. electrostat vs. box), then you should figure out the speaker first as the speaker requirements need to factor in to the amplifier choice - Although for a, for example, entry-level type of budget, this probably isn't too big of a deal.

Regardless, you don't necessarily want to have speakers only as they need power. You don't want your money tied up in something you cannot enjoy immediately for a long time. The only time I would do this is if I scored a fantastic deal that I know I wouldn't be able to get. For example, mint condition up-to-date speakers for 50% cost. Even if you don't use them for a year or two, you would not be able to get that kinda deal after that time had passed.

Speakers hold their value over time far better than electronics. Thus, if you had to sell your system prior to it becoming complete due to unforeseen issues, if you had speakers only, you would not lose much money. If you had electronics only, you could stand to lose quite a bit of value even if they were new-in-box.

 

[Howard]

Amplifiers (if you are buying external amps) can also be purchased early (provided good deals). Amplifiers have almost no features except to provide power. Updates are generally on cosmetics and connectors. If you have an idea of type of speaker you want for the future, then amplifier is easy. If you are still unsure of type of speaker (horn vs. electrostat vs. box), then you should figure out the speaker first as the speaker requirements need to factor in to the amplifier choice - Although for a, for example, entry-level type of budget, this probably isn't too big of a deal.

Problem is, amps are redundant for HT/all-purpose usage unless one or two criteria are satisified: 1) they're "better quality" than what you would find in an AV receiver, and 2) your receiver needs to have pre-outs, which low-end receivers tend not to have.

 

[cheesehead]

My thoughts on the "amps" thing:

1. Most amps will work with most speakers just fine. The whole "complimentary sound" thing is, for the most part, a load of hooey - I've used a fifteen-year-old Yamaha el-cheapo HT receiver with some $3600 speakers, and they worked just fine. Quite a lot of rather respected audio engineers and DIY speaker enthusiasts use very cheap amps to great effect.

The exception to these rules are mostly for very unusual amps and speakers. Tube amps have poor damping and can't cope with varying impedance, resulting in potentially funky sound with otherwise very good speakers. Similarly, unusual speakers like electrostats require a very good amplifier due to their oddball electrical characteristics.

2. If you're listening to music, you're almost always better off buying a stereo system than a 5.1 system. Stereo amplifiers may actually produce less power than a 5.1 reciever of equivalent price, but the quality of the electronics is almost always higher, and the absence of bits that convert the signal from analog to digital and back to analog again doesn't hurt, either. (A similar deal applies to speakers).


I guess the question is - what kind of sound system do you want to buy, and what do you want to do with it? (And is there any chance I can sell you some of my stuff so I can pay the bills? )

 

[vshah]

emotiva makes decent amps for not too much money

 

[Tiamat]

Problem is, amps are redundant for HT/all-purpose usage unless one or two criteria are satisified: 1) they're "better quality" than what you would find in an AV receiver, and 2) your receiver needs to have pre-outs, which low-end receivers tend not to have.

That is true if used in that fashion. I come from a separates point of view.

 

[vi edit]

1. Most amps will work with most speakers just fine. The whole "complimentary sound" thing is, for the most part, a load of hooey - I've used a fifteen-year-old Yamaha el-cheapo HT receiver with some $3600 speakers, and they worked just fine. Quite a lot of rather respected audio engineers and DIY speaker enthusiasts use very cheap amps to great effect.

I'd largely agree. Most people probably couldn't tell the difference between a $40 T-Amp and a $1000 Rotel when played on the same speakers at all but the highest levels of volume.

 

[ericlp]

Chicken or the Egg. You'll need em both to make an omelet.

Save your money and buy both. But wow! Yes, I agree I use a 40.00 t-amp still ... But with a t-amp you have to use 90+ sensitivity on the speakers. I always say buy a t-amp but I'm starting to sound like a broken record around here.

 

[C1]

Wow. It's been a long time ago, but I used to be a big stereo bug. Kind of telling that no one mentioned the pre-amp. The pre-amp is to me as important as the speakers. It sets the S/N for the whole system. Also amplifiers have a number of important characteristics some of which include overhead and damping factor. If you're (like me) gonna drive four 4 ohm units, then the amp needs to be kinda special. If you really plan to drive at high SPLs then recommend an amp with proper built in circuit protection so that it doesnt take out tweeters (ie, prevents dc output if/when clipping occurs).

The latest rage now is going back to vinyl - very amusing. The claim is that vinyl sounds warmer. That's partly because stereophiles overlook the quality of the media playing equipment. The quality of the DACs in the D-to-A conversion makes a big difference. (BTW, the supposed reason tube amps sound warmer is because they yield even harmonics if/when clipping. However, they are subject to picking up stray signals & hum whereas solid state yields hiss.)

There is also the room! I spent easily half the hardware money on building/configuring the listening room for control of room modes & reverberation time.

In the final analysis, there's a lot to it, but most of what there is outside all the conventional magazine media hype.

 

[NutBucket]

I want my tubes and vinyl! Leave me be!

 

[ericlp]

I dunno, I thought an Ipod already had a pretty good pre amp?

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-preamp_e.html


I always figured the Ipod had enough juice to run the t-amp at it's loudest. I just don't know. Do you think I really need one? I only have the Ipod hooked up I don't switch between different equipment and to be honest I am kinda happy with built in preamp on the ipod... Do I really need another device to go in between?

As I have also thought about making a preamp. Or if it would improve the sound even better?

I'm too lazy for vinyl.

 

[Anubis]

emotiva makes decent amps for not too much money

yea but their processors are to be avoided


also the used market for amps is an amazing place to find deals

 

[vshah]

yea but their processors are to be avoided


also the used market for amps is an amazing place to find deals

agreed, i picked up a used nad 2600 for under 100 bucks. estate sales are great too...some people have no idea what they're selling

 

[CallMeJoe]

Cheap low-powered amplifiers can be adequate if used with sufficiently efficient speakers and if those speakers do not pose a challenging load.

I'll stick with my high-current, wide-bandwidth amps, even with my Klipsch speakers.

 

[KGB]

I want my tubes and vinyl! Leave me be!

AMEN!!!

 

[Koing]

I'd spend more on speakers then on the receiver if I had to pick, but a balanced system would sound better.

Koing

 

[Anubis]

i know GT hasent come back to this thread but he needs to clarify if hes looking for an AVR or a pre/pro setup

reading his post it seems like hes gonna be a first timer, for that i recommend an AVR from any of the larger company, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer in the 3-600$ range. you can get great deals on the past years models when buying new. and or refurbs from places that sell them

also http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=90

if you are looking to go pre/pro knowing your budget will help a ton as the options are pretty massive