Which CPU for an MSI Radeon R9 290?

[cRYSTALWIRE]

Hello there,

(Apologies if this is in the wrong forum)

I am going to put together a new system. This time, in one go, rather than adding and replacing parts over the years.

Currently I am using a DellT3400 with a Radeon HD7700 series card.
Yeah, I know. But it plays FarCry3 at Max on a 1680 by 1050 monitor. So it has sufficed so far.

I have been reading for hours on end over the past few days through many forums in the hope of creating a clearer picture in mind for what i want.

The point that most forum posters seem to agree on here is that if replacing old then start at the forefront in tech. Do not buy old (as in 'newer than existing').
However, the new comes at a price.

The funny thing is after saying that most of them are arguing about how upgrading to the new tech is a waste and there are lots of issues with it at the moment. So, wouldn't buying the 'older' proven and STILL viable tech be the way to go?

There is so much argument/disagreement about the new Haswell cpus vs IvyBridge Vs Sandy Bridge.
As for the Haswell lineup there are the complaints about the heat issues. Disputes going from 'Intel using low quality pastes on the heat spreader' (Therefore leading to contemplate the 'Delidding process) to the 'There is not much of a difference in speed between the new and the old' arguments. So keep the old.

In the end I had been wondering why not buy a SB i52500k then. But looking at curent prices here in Australia. The i5 2500k is actually the same price as the latest Haswell i5 4670K.
And then there are/were the issues surrounding the z68 Mobo's for the 1155 socket. Have they been addressed?
It goes on and on..

So I have arrived to this point.
I am not sure why everyone is so engrossed in just the cpu. After all, doesn't the graphics card do most of the work when it comes to gaming? I know cpu is important when talking about screen resolutions so....
If that is the case then here is my question....

What is the LOWEST performing cpu needed to run (No mmo's please, including BF3 and CD4) a game like Amnesia, Assetto Corsa, I Racing, on MAX settings on a single monitor with 1980x1080p being the lowest setting using a MSI Radeon R9 290 GPU?

I figure an Haswell i5 4440 would be ample to handle this task. But I am not sure as I am not tech savvy enough to know.
Or, is there an AMD cpu out there that I can choose from?
I'd rather reduce the $$ spent if possible but, I do not want to be put into a compromising position either.
I spent 7 years using an P42.4Ghtz pc until I became to bored of the PS3. Now I would like to run a few racing sims and be able to play the odd other game here and there on max resolution. Pretty pixels are nice.

I guess 'last but not least' should have been 'first but not last'...this pc will be used for everything at home. Work, gaming, internet, some encoding on videos. Not a lot. Just 300 dvds to re-encode to MKV.
Any ancient ole pc can run the net. Screw Java and the like.
Do I need over an clocking cpu and mobo? I am not sure, but it might lengthen the life of the parts rather than replace it all in two years to come...hmm..
I think that's about it.... Which cpu to use? hmm...


Thanks for reading....

 

[xSneak]

Depends on what games you want to play and your budget. Games that are highly single threaded will perform better on intel obviously. This is definitely seen on the total war games. I get like 17-25 fps using my 8320 @ 4.5Ghz.

The i5 4440 could be a good choice for gaming and transcoding if you're on a budget. I would wait for amd kaveri to come out before you make any decisions. It could be cheaper and have similar performance in addition to offering you the ability to upgrade down the road.

 

[FalseChristian]

Nix that! Get an i5 4670K and overclock it. Hell, even the i7 4770K, which is even faster and supports hyper-threading (your O.S. will report 8 CPUs) and has come down in price quite a bit. This is the only CPU I would currently upgrade to from my i5 2500K at 4.5GHz if I had to.

The R9 290 is a super-fast highend GPU and needs a lot of CPU horsepower. Why buy an expensive, fast GPU and then limit it by going with a slow CPU especially if you want to go XFire down the road?

 

[cRYSTALWIRE]

Hi there xSneak,
The games in question are mentioned above. Minus the game amnesia now as that needs fairly low spec apparently. Budget is around $1300 Australian. (As noted I dont play BF3, COD, WoW) I love FPS's in general, just can't stand the online cheating so prefer single player games. Getting rarer and rarer I know.

I can wait...but it seems..if I keep waiting and waiting....and wait some more every time something new comes out...well...i'll just be doing what I have been doing the past 7 years. I knda feel stagnated somewhat using 7 and 5 year old equipment.

:biggrin::biggrin: Hey there FalseChristian,
Was kinda wondering when someone would start to say buy the top level cpu.. I wouldn't need to post here if buying the top level of everything was all I need to do. That's easy. Just really really expensive. And I don't have bottomless pockets to fill the excitement of others wish lists. lol...
Oh, and I wont be going cross fire OR SLI. That's a certainty.
The R9 290 is up there alright. But...unless the PCIe lane is going to change in the nest 5 years I think it has lasting appeal.
And as I had stated...I only need a cpu that's fast enough to run the above mentioned games on max @ resolution of 1080P min. So what cpu as a minimum can be used to run at this resolution as a minimum. Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

I am of the opinion (drawn conclusions from reading others experiences) that using the uppermost tier level of cpu is not needed to run most games on max.

 

[cRYSTALWIRE]

Buy the way 2nd hand i5 2500k's are selling for around $200 Australian. Man they do hold price alright. It appears from all that I have read that that particular cpu is KING of the hill.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Haswell is the fastest CPU without doubt. Remember you need Z87.

Also its only get hot in 256bit AVX loads. But then its also up to 70-80% faster than SB/IB in those burn tests used.

Forget AMD CPUs, simply too slow, powerhungry and on an old outdated platform.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I don't see any point of waiting for kaveri if using a powerful discrete card, although we should have more complete benches in a couple of weeks. Honestly, when buying a powerful and expensive gpu, I don't see the point of cheaping out on the CPU. As someone else said, I would just go for the 4670 k.

 

[wand3r3r]

The debate about sandy vs. ivy bridge and haswell is mainly among people who either own one currently, or OC. Since you fall into neither category, go with the newest cpu possible since the price is not discounted on the old ones. The newer motherboards will also have extras that will be handy now and in the future (usb3 etc.). There has been little justification for many people to upgrade from the 2500k since the performance increases have been lacking.

Since you have kept your PC for a long time, I would personally recommend a 4670k with a Z87 motherboard (a basic one unless you need extra features) which you can OC a bit someday if you want.

The CPU has been the longest lasting component in a modern PC since the 2500k was released, particularly since it was a high overclocker and the IPC has only improved slightly since then. GPU's have evolved quicker.

I think a 4670k / Z87 combo together with a r9 290 will be an excellent choice and should be powerful enough to last for a while. I would personally go with the K just in case you decide to OC it at some point, however if you know you will never OC it you could go for one of the slightly cheaper models which are within a couple hundred MHz without too much penalty.

About the r9 290, I would buy an aftermarket one with multiple fans if you have a decent case with reasonably good airflow, unless you don't mind the noise of the reference cooler.

 

[cRYSTALWIRE]

Thanks everyone for your input.
And thank you to wand3r3r,

I had this in the back of my mind before initial post on this forum. But was, I guess, fishing a bit for a little more flavor on the subject. And as I had found, there is no difference in price point between the newest i5 4670k and the old but awesome i5 2500k cpu.
I had just been reading about the reference cooler on the AMD GPU and also that Sapphire are releasing (If not already released) their version of the card. Which appears to be a big difference regarding noise levels and cooling effect. I guess other companies will follow suit shortly. So I will wait and compare those versions as noise will be of concern to me I guess.
I most likely will go with an 'K' cpu and OC mobo. Not for gaming sake but to extend the life of the hardware if the initial clock speeds become compromised by future demands in software etc.
One thing I'll most certainly look at after the build is looking at core temps on the cpu. There has been enough videos out there showing what the temps look like out of the box to warrant it.
No point keeping a nice cpu running with subpar paste on it. Some of the paste jobs by Intel were quite shocking to say the least.

Well, thanks again.

 

[cRYSTALWIRE]

Oh,

ShintaiDK I have no idea what '256bit AVX loads' are. But I am going to do some research on that subject too. Just to make sure I got that covered as well.
Did a quick look before bed.....couldn't make out what I was reading about. So I'll look at that topic again tomorrow.

Started off with no knowledge two days ago....been doing ok so far..I guess. Chin up. :biggrin:

 

[xSneak]

I don't think either of those games are cpu limited. I think you could get good value if you went with an apu build so you could run it in crossfire with your 7770 when kaveri comes out (January 24).

it would save you money since you're on a budget. I don't think you would need a 290 at 1080p. At 1080p a 280x/Gtx 770 would be fine.

 

[Termie]

Perhaps I missed it, but is there a reason you've already decided on an R9 290? Given the games you're interested in, the 290 isn't the best use of funds, in my opinion. I do, however, agree that a 4670K is your best option on the CPU side. Honestly, that's the easier decision - picking the video card is a bit more difficult, but I'd look at the GTX 760 for starters.

 

[cRYSTALWIRE]

Hi there Termie.
Why did I choose the R9 290? Hmm.. not sure why I settled on that in the end. Everyone is always saying get the best GPU you can. Always. And this one from what I have researched, is probably the better of the lot.

Hi xSneak.
AMD was something I was considering since their CPU and Mobo's are cheaper to buy. But crossfire or SLI configurations are just going to increase the price to where I would have been better off just using a single GPU I would think. And less complications or possible complications arising from running two GPU's.

I will revisit the GPU market and spend more time on understanding them. There are so many out there though it'll take some time.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I don't think either of those games are cpu limited. I think you could get good value if you went with an apu build so you could run it in crossfire with your 7770 when kaveri comes out (January 24).

it would save you money since you're on a budget. I don't think you would need a 290 at 1080p. At 1080p a 280x/Gtx 770 would be fine.

I would not count on crossfire with Kaveri and a discrete card until some results come out. It gave no better gameplay than the APU alone with Richland, according to a test from Toms Hardware. Kaveri *may* solve this problem, but no one knows until we see some tests from independent sources.

 

[blastingcap]

I would get the fastest Intel or AMD processor you can reasonable afford without it going too "out there" in terms of price/performance ratio, because it's a pain to swap CPUs, it sometimes means swapping mobo and/or RAM too, whereas you can swap in more powerful GPUs more easily. A lot of people like the 4770 for good reason.

 

[DaZeeMan]

Just a couple of quick notes.

Most of the tech sites are reporting Kaveri's 'launch date' as January 14th, or 13th-14th.

Also, CES (the Consumer Electronics Show) is January 7th-10th. I'd imagine that we will see quite a few little tidbits from CES next week...
http://www.cesweb.org/

The speculaton at several tech sites is that the NDA's will expire during CES, so we should see a bunch of Benchmarks being released then.

Soooo, sometime between January 7th and January 14th-ish is when we should see a BUNCH of Kaveri info, as well as whatever Intel cares to share at CES (one of the Keynote speakers at CES is from Intel). If you aren't in a hurry to buy your new system, it may pay to wait a week or two.

That being said, it sounds to me like your are looking for a Discrete GPU solution, not an APU, so Kaveri may not be a big deal to you. Nonetheless, it can't hurt to 'research' for a week or two and see what's up.

Besides, maybe the whole 'bitcoin' fervor thing will calm down, hence taking the pressure off of 290 prices!

 

[DaZeeMan]

Also, according to AMD's press release, Lisa Su of AMD will be hosting a Press Conference on January 6th at CES, at 4 PM PST..
http://ces14.mapyourshow.com/5_0/news_redirect.cfm?releaseid=18ADCC

There will be a live feed from the press conference here:
http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/newsroom/Pages/ces-2014.aspx

 

[cRYSTALWIRE]

No I am not in a hurry. Never in a hurry to throw money away..lol

 

[Arkaign]

290 Prices are absolutely bananas right now. You definitely want a 290 or 770 or better if you can afford it if you're going for more than a 1080p display. If you're going with a 1080p display you could get away with a 760 OC edition for a toooooooooooooooon less $$. Hopefully the *coin craze will die off soon, the price inflation is incredibly aggravating.

To put it mildly, Kaveri will have zero interest to any gamer who can afford a discrete GPU. Even the most wildly optimistic scenarios will have a Kaveri annihilated by an i3 or Vishera/FX + GTX760/R270 as a gaming setup. That's not to say that Kaveri won't be a good product on it's own merits for intended purposes, but yeah .. this is not one of them.

Already covered well enough, but 4670K or 4770K is the way to go for a new build. The SB and IB owners have basically zero reason to 'upgrade' beyond getting better chipsets as the ultimate performance is close enough not to mean anything. But as the price is so high for used kit, and Intel doesn't discount for old stock, there's zero reason to go with an older model for new build.

 

[cRYSTALWIRE]

Hey there ShintaiDK
I took a look again into what '256bit AVX loads' might be about. Floating points, Stack Overflow, Integer commands'...... nope. I am not going to get that. Waaay over my head thanks. :biggrin: I'll leave that for you pros to argue about. Floating points sounds like we're talking about floating boards for a house or something..lol

 

[Headfoot]

Thanks everyone for your input.
And thank you to wand3r3r,

I had this in the back of my mind before initial post on this forum. But was, I guess, fishing a bit for a little more flavor on the subject. And as I had found, there is no difference in price point between the newest i5 4670k and the old but awesome i5 2500k cpu.
I had just been reading about the reference cooler on the AMD GPU and also that Sapphire are releasing (If not already released) their version of the card. Which appears to be a big difference regarding noise levels and cooling effect. I guess other companies will follow suit shortly. So I will wait and compare those versions as noise will be of concern to me I guess.
I most likely will go with an 'K' cpu and OC mobo. Not for gaming sake but to extend the life of the hardware if the initial clock speeds become compromised by future demands in software etc.
One thing I'll most certainly look at after the build is looking at core temps on the cpu. There has been enough videos out there showing what the temps look like out of the box to warrant it.
No point keeping a nice cpu running with subpar paste on it. Some of the paste jobs by Intel were quite shocking to say the least.

Well, thanks again.

Don't waste your time buying into a 2500k. It's a great chip, if you bought it in 09. Today, unless you get a great deal on it and are on a low budget, just get the Haswell 4670k and overclock. The z87 chipset is far better than z68. Definitely don't worry about Kaveri, that's for a different market altogether.

If you survived with a P4 for almost 10 years, the 4670k (or 4770k) overclocked will last you another 10.

If you are fine with buying used, I've found that Upper-Mid level graphics cards are very good value used because people in that bracket like to upgrade frequently. Used GTX 680s are an extremely good value right now. I've seen them as low as $230 USD. For the inflated price the current 290 is at you can get 2 used GTX 680s which will be much faster.

 

[blackened23]

Kaveri? No. Not for a powerhouse gaming PC. The only assurance you will have is this, the Kaveri will be a cheap chip that performs OKAY for being cheap. Just like all APUs prior to it. It's going to be cheap and suitable for HTPC use and will have OKAY graphics performance, but it won't come close to competing with a 4770k. In terms of the IPC, the most important metric for an enthusiast grade gaming PC, the 4770k will absolutely crush it. The 4670k or 4770k will be what you want for a gaming powerhouse system, the 2500k was good for its day but it is now EOL and you won't find it any cheaper than the 4670k, generally speaking.

Kaveri in no way will compare to a Haswell 4670k or 4770k. Give me a break. Don't listen to any rubbish that an AMD influencer may tell you.http://northamericaninfluencer.amd.com/Leaderboard/View/1

 

[xSneak]

Kaveri? No. Not for a powerhouse gaming PC. The only assurance you will have is this, the Kaveri will be a cheap chip that performs OKAY for being cheap. Just like all APUs prior to it. It's going to be cheap and suitable for HTPC use and will have OKAY graphics performance, but it won't come close to competing with a 4770k. In terms of the IPC, the most important metric for an enthusiast grade gaming PC, the 4770k will absolutely crush it. The 4670k or 4770k will be what you want for a gaming powerhouse system, the 2500k was good for its day but it is now EOL and you won't find it any cheaper than the 4670k, generally speaking.

Kaveri in no way will compare to a Haswell 4670k or 4770k. Give me a break. Don't listen to any rubbish that an AMD influencer may tell you.http://northamericaninfluencer.amd.com/Leaderboard/View/1

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but the amd cpus are perfectly adequate for gaming. You can look at multiple benchmarks and they will give you 50-60 fps in modern games easily. Kaveri will have an ipc similar to sandy bridge and be more affordable than an unlocked core i5, so I think it is the perfect cpu for a person on a budget like the OP.

http://www.techspot.com/review/670-metro-last-light-performance/page6.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/642-crysis-3-performance/page6.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/615-far-cry-3-performance/page6.html

 

[blackened23]

Good work on cherry picking the most absolute GPU limited games you could possibly find. Now what happens when you play a CPU limited game? Performance on an APU would not be good to say the least. Funnily enough, even though crysis 3 and metro LL are 100% GPU limited, they're still measurably slower on the AMD side. In fact, most of those games are 20-25 frames slower on the A10-5800k compared to the upper intel offerings.

Like I said, if you want a powerhouse gaming PC you want a 4670k/4770k. It will give you the most favorable gaming experience, whereas an APU is always a situation of compromising.

APUs are fine for HTPCs. But a powerhouse gaming PC? You gotta be kidding me. APUs are good in certain situations, i'd use one for an HPTC in my living room. But a top grade gaming PC? No.

ipc similar to sandy bridge

Sounds like wishful thinking.

 

[xSneak]

Good work on cherry picking the most absolute GPU limited games you could possibly find. Now what happens when you play a CPU limited game? Performance on an APU would not be good to say the least. Funnily enough, even though crysis 3 and metro LL are 100% GPU limited, they're still measurably slower on the AMD side. In fact, most of those games are 20-25 frames slower on the A10-5800k compared to the upper intel offerings.

Like I said, if you want a powerhouse gaming PC you want a 4670k/4770k. It will give you the most favorable gaming experience, whereas an APU is always a situation of compromising.

APUs are fine for HTPCs. But a powerhouse gaming PC? You gotta be kidding me.


Sounds like wishful thinking.

First, where the fuck are you getting "powerhouse gaming PC" from ?

secondly, let me provide more benchmarks:
http://www.techspot.com/review/734-battlefield-4-benchmarks/page6.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/piledriver-k10-cpu-overclocking,3584-15.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/645-tomb-raider-performance/page5.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/706-splinter-cell-blacklist-benchmarks/page5.html

Games where there is a bigger difference:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-processor-frame-rate-performance,3427-8.html
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/06/12/intel-core-i5-4670k-haswell-cpu-review/5

Stop spreading FUD. OP only mentioned playing Amnesia and Corsa racing.