Which has more job opportunities?

[w3stfa11]

Especially in the long-term (3-5 years from now).

 

[Thyme]

No one knows what things will be like in 3-5 years. Pick the one that looks most interesting to you. They're both fine languages.

 

[boran]

Learn Java if you have to learn one of the both.
While the languages are similar the supplied class libraries are not. From my personal experience the sun libraries are far better in terms of OO-design. And thus allow you to use decent OO.
I have often found that for many C# applications (mainly gui apps) I had to let go many OO principles because they simply would not work. this is because C# carries around a rather heavy luggage of wrapped C and C++ libraries whereas Java does not.

But like I said they are similar. I learned Java in school, but now I work as a C# programmer, I made the switch on-the-go and it took about 2 months of struggeling to comfortably work with C#.

 

[boran]

Oh and one more thing going for Java, the development environments are far superior to Visual Studio.
Most decent Java IDE's (Eclipse, NetBeans, JBuilder) are years ahead of visual studio in terms of extensability, integration, coding completion etc.


Coming from Eclipse to Visual Studio was a tough change and might even be a reason for me to change jobs one day (if MS cant get their act together)

 

[DaveSimmons]

There will be jobs for both.

Java will be used mostly for linux and solaris server-side development, plus for a small amount of client-side applet/viewer development like web word processing and an even smaller amount of cross-platform application development. Oh, and cellphone games.

C# will be used for Windows server-side development and for Windows client-side development, mostly for in-house or vertical market use.

C/C++ will continue to be used for real games, "shrink wrap" mass market applications, embedded and OS coding.

 

[Nothinman]

And if you do it right you'll learn how to program and not just memorize the syntax of a particular language.

 

[meksta]

learn concepts of programming and you can apply them to most any language.

imo, java is a much better server side language while .net is easy to pump out desktop applications. I agree that if you want to learn OO concepts, Java is a good place to start.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
And if you do it right you'll learn how to program and not just memorize the syntax of a particular language.

This is how it should be, but in the real world, far too many hiring managers are more worried about whether you have experience in a particular language, than whether or not you can design good software.

 

[ojingoh]

they're both the same now, really anybody saying one has better blah blah blah is picking sides, they're functionally so similar it's not worth arguing about. i've used both, currently toiling away with c#/2005. i use j2ee/eclipse as well, not so much in the last year.
some things are better in c#, things like profiling. also microsoft is what it is, but at least it's consistent -- one vendor, one implementation -- not to say that .net won't p1ss you off, but there is only one implementation. linux is a better server environment though, for sure.
i'd say that c# skill is more portable, j2ee is more high end developement, but also the jobs tend to be very highly specialized -- a big part of your skillset will be what server environment you used.

java swing sucks. seriously if you are making apps, you should be using c++, both languages are meh.

you can find a job very easily in .net with basic skills. java has the high end development mindshare, a lot of innovation is associated (expected?) with j2ee, but that doesn't mean anything, it's not a language feature lol.

just don't learn vb lol, and learn some sql!

 

[Nothinman]

This is how it should be, but in the real world, far too many hiring managers are more worried about whether you have experience in a particular language, than whether or not you can design good software.

You should have experience in the language used at the job you're applying for, but if you also learn the fundamentals you'll be able to pick up new languages a lot quicker.

 

[Czar]

I hope java dies soon, its bad bad bad

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: Czar
I hope java dies soon, its bad bad bad

oooohhhh I love unquantified statements! I'll jump on the bandwagon too! Java is bad bad bad because I said so and that should be enough to sway ANYONE's position on it! :roll:

 

[Alienwho]

My company can't hire enough Java Developers.

 

[Nothinman]

My company can't hire enough Java Developers.

Maybe if Java was better they'd be able to do more with the developers they already have! *rimshot* =)

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

My company can't hire enough Java Developers.

Maybe if Java was better they'd be able to do more with the developers they already have! *rimshot* =)

Ouch man, that hurts

Or it could be that Java is just so much more useful than .net there's more opportunities for them to choose from, hence the shortage.

 

[Nothinman]

Or it could be that Java is just so much more useful than .net there's more opportunities for them to choose from, hence the shortage.

If that were true I might actually have a JRE installed.

 

[Smilin]

Place your long term money on Sun or Microsoft? .... hmmm decisions decisions.

Me? I'm sticking with Borland... those guys are still around right?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: Czar
I hope java dies soon, its bad bad bad

oooohhhh I love unquantified statements! I'll jump on the bandwagon too! Java is bad bad bad because I said so and that should be enough to sway ANYONE's position on it! :roll:

as a working network admin for years I will say that java is utter crap

1. Its slow.
2. Its a resource hog
3. Every user must be in the local administrator group because java needs administrator rights to run.

Java was slow when I was learning it, back when we had 200mhz processors, java is still slow even we have 4ghz processors.

 

[EvilManagedCare]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
And if you do it right you'll learn how to program and not just memorize the syntax of a particular language.

I see a lot of statements like this, and as a relatively new Software Engineering student I get concerned I may be relying too much on learning syntax. While I understand experience is going to be necessary to put good programming into practice, are there any recommended books that illustrate good practices?

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: EvilManagedCare

Originally posted by: Nothinman
And if you do it right you'll learn how to program and not just memorize the syntax of a particular language.

I see a lot of statements like this, and as a relatively new Software Engineering student I get concerned I may be relying too much on learning syntax. While I understand experience is going to be necessary to put good programming into practice, are there any recommended books that illustrate good practices?

well that's what your school work is for. Typically you learn how to program in school in several languages (I had to learn C, Assembly, ADA, Lisp, C++, and Java with the majority of my time spent in C). "Good practices" can mean several things, but mostly it's writing clear and consistent code that's easy to debug should a problem arise. Debugging is where those "good practices" pay off. If you've designed your program to be modular and self documenting then you're on your way to being a better programmer.
You should also look into the software development lifecycle classes that teach you to be more than just a programmer. Programming by itself is good for the most basic, entry level jobs. Software development and analysis is where you should be progressing to. You'll want to be able to analyze requirements, come up with implementation plans, come up with design documents for your application (including UML) and then do the actual programming. There are a lot of books from the Pragmatic Programmers series that I recommend including Ship It! A Practical Guide to Successful Software Projects. You should also look into Design Patterns and start using them as you learn them. The seminal work in the field is the GoF book Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object Oriented Software.

as a working network admin for years I will say that java is utter crap

1. Its slow.
2. Its a resource hog
3. Every user must be in the local administrator group because java needs administrator rights to run.

Java was slow when I was learning it, back when we had 200mhz processors, java is still slow even we have 4ghz processors.

As far as Java being slow, it's all how you use it. Java, like any other language, is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a tool that when properly developed is applied to solve a business problem. As with most problems, there are many ways to solve them, but you use the best tool for the job. .Net can be slow, just like C/C++, just like PHP, just like any other language. It's not my fault you have a crappy company that hired crappy programmers.

 

[kamper]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Place your long term money on Sun or Microsoft? .... hmmm decisions decisions.

That's a bit misleading. The .net community is far more dependent on microsoft than the java community is on sun. Ultimately I think both platforms would live beyond their creating companies but, assuming they both went under tomorrow, I'd much rather have my money invested in java.

Me? I'm sticking with Borland... those guys are still around right?

I'd consider it They've made some nice stuff.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: kamper

Originally posted by: Smilin

Me? I'm sticking with Borland... those guys are still around right?

I'd consider it They've made some nice stuff.

You are correct in two regards...

1. The stuff was nice.

2. "made" as in past tense.

Some big software company came along and handed them their butt.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

as a working network admin for years I will say that java is utter crap

1. Its slow.
2. Its a resource hog
3. Every user must be in the local administrator group because java needs administrator rights to run.

Java was slow when I was learning it, back when we had 200mhz processors, java is still slow even we have 4ghz processors.

As far as Java being slow, it's all how you use it. Java, like any other language, is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a tool that when properly developed is applied to solve a business problem. As with most problems, there are many ways to solve them, but you use the best tool for the job. .Net can be slow, just like C/C++, just like PHP, just like any other language. It's not my fault you have a crappy company that hired crappy programmers.

Well, blame IBM, they made something called DB2 connect, for use to connect to a db2 database server. This program is made with Java, so for most of our programs to work, only a few done in java and they are not so slow, people must be local admins.

The fact is that db2connect is horribly slow, creating a new database connection is a big hazzle. And just yesterday I was configuring a hp print server, the config was a webpage with everything as a java applet, menus, settings, the lots. And as expected, so damn slow.