Which Military Branch gets deployed first in a war

[Viper Frag]

Originally posted by: savoyboy

Originally posted by: Viper-Frag
Yes the President has direct control over the marines, but also any other non-conventional force, ie. Army SF, Rangers, ...etc.

Viper-Frag

Your statement gives me the impression that USMC belongs to the non-conventional forces

Only recon marines are non-conventional. All other marine assets are conventional; however, marines would not be able to survive in long term strategic battles. They are mostly used as a shock effect.
Viper-Frag

Navy Seals and Recon marines nowadays are not doing much independent missions, they are usually attached to SOF. SOF or SOC, Special Operations Command in Fort Bragg, is governed by the ARMY and not any other branch, but it is a joint force.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Marines take their orders from the President...other branches need Congress' approval. What do you think?

Interesting. Last I checked Congress is no where in any branch of service's chain of command.

Article I

The Congress shall have Power...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

 

[abracadabra1]

The simple answer is that for war (which is a planned event) all branches of the military are deployed near-simultaneously. The first units on the ground will likely be spec ops forces (which would again include spec ops forces from each branch - i.e. joint operations) to be followed by the more conventional ground forces (army and marine corps - again, joint operations). The Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines would be present during the conflict.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: savoyboy
For some reasons i don't think landing Marines from a beach is faster than dropping paratroopers from a C-130

fixed

:roll: ahh the high and mighty

marines marines marines marines

:roll: Touched a nerve with ya?

Its a capitalized word, deal with it.

no, but apparently savoyboy touched a nerve with YOU.

omgz marine must always be capitalized! you should go to miltary prison for having the audacity to use a lower case m!

Apparently I touched a nerve with you. You got your panties in a bunch and needed to post about it.

you made a post that contained nothing but your fixing of his m to an M.

I merely called you out on it.

Boy you sure 'called me out', I feel so bad. Never again will I attempt to inform someone of a grammar error that many people do not know about! Man, I feel like such a loser right now. How could I?

Acting like a grammar Nazi is pretty lame, actually.

 

[Viper Frag]

Just a question but who here is actually in the military? And of those, who is an officer? The reason I ask is officers tend to know a lot more about the planning and strategic side of military ops and are most qualified to answer questions like these; however, there are some exceptions. Some enlisted personnel are very bright in that aspect as well.

Or a majority of you are basing your statements on "I heard this or I read that?" and are just civilians?

Viper-Frag

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Marines take their orders from the President...other branches need Congress' approval. What do you think?

Interesting. Last I checked Congress is no where in any branch of service's chain of command.

Article I

The Congress shall have Power...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

I appreciate the constitution reference. But I again contend that Congress is in neither chain of command.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Marines take their orders from the President...other branches need Congress' approval. What do you think?

Interesting. Last I checked Congress is no where in any branch of service's chain of command.

Article I

The Congress shall have Power...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

I appreciate the constitution reference. But I again contend that Congress is in neither chain of command.

And your evidence?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: savoyboy

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Marines take their orders from the President...other branches need Congress' approval. What do you think?

um, wrong.


This is the chain of command of the U.S. Army
Congress--->President--->Secretary of Defense->Secretary of Army-->Chief of Staff

Fixed

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: savoyboy

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: savoyboy

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Marines take their orders from the President...other branches need Congress' approval. What do you think?

um, wrong.


This is the chain of command of the U.S. Army
Congress--->President--->Secretary of Defense->Secretary of Army-->Chief of Staff

Fixed

Congress is not a part of Army chain of command.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74696,00.html
http://www2.york.k12.tn.us/JRO...y_chain_of_command.htm
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1505416
http://www.usaac.army.mil/accw/photos.htm

The President has to report to Congress.

 

[jersiq]

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
I would think Air Force. They are the only ones who are mobile enough to actually be able to do anything within the first couple of days of war.

Keep in mind the Marine Corps also has its own mini air-force.

Yeah, it's called the Navy. Marines don't deploy with a Marine 'mini air-force'. They deploy with the organic assets of the carrier which includes Navy and Marine Corps aviators.

I am confused. Are you denying that there is Marine Aricraft Wing?

Only recon marines are non-conventional. All other marine assets are conventional; however, marines would not be able to survive in long term strategic battles. They are mostly used as a shock effect.

No the Marines hold the ethos of applying Combined Arms Warfare, which is to be sustainable over longer periods of time.

Just a question but who here is actually in the military? And of those, who is an officer? The reason I ask is officers tend to know a lot more about the planning and strategic side of military ops and are most qualified to answer questions like these; however, there are some exceptions. Some enlisted personnel are very bright in that aspect as well.

Well call me one of the exceptions. In fact call my old unit an entire anomaly, because the 4 years I served, the only thing we had for Platoon leaders were utter f*cking morons who were more happy with their shiny new butterbars.

Edit: You know what that statement about officers really annoys me. Are you telling me that a shiny 2nd LT or even 1st LT would know more about operational readiness that a Senior Staff NCO? If so, you should fit right in in the officer ranks. It really isn't that hard to conceptualize what you role is in the bigger picture during a deployment. In fact, of all the Marines I have met (and that's quite a few considering I was one) knew exactly what role they played, and how they fit into the overall picture in terms of deployment. It's one of the things they teach us at bootcamp.

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Marines take their orders from the President...other branches need Congress' approval. What do you think?

Interesting. Last I checked Congress is no where in any branch of service's chain of command.

Article I

The Congress shall have Power...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

I appreciate the constitution reference. But I again contend that Congress is in neither chain of command.

And your evidence?

The past 5 years of service in the USN.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Viper-Frag
Lol reading all responses made me laugh. It depends on the OE, operational environment. Lately its been ODA's from the Army, thats Operational Detachment Alpha which is ARMY SF. Oh and to add to that Army Combat Engineers usually go with SF, along with an operational support attachments.

P.S. I can support the abve statements since I do most of the planning for a few ODA's. Been in the ARMY for 6 years, 5 enlisted and 1 officer and still going.

Any other questions feel free to ask.

-Viper-Frag

so when do the ninjas go in then?

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
I would think Air Force. They are the only ones who are mobile enough to actually be able to do anything within the first couple of days of war.

Keep in mind the Marine Corps also has its own mini air-force.

Yeah, it's called the Navy. Marines don't deploy with a Marine 'mini air-force'. They deploy with the organic assets of the carrier which includes Navy and Marine Corps aviators.

I am confused. Are you denying that there is Marine Aricraft Wing

Only recon marines are non-conventional. All other marine assets are conventional; however, marines would not be able to survive in long term strategic battles. They are mostly used as a shock effect.

No the Marines hold the ethos of applying Combined Arms Warfare, which is to be sustainable over longer periods of time.

Just a question but who here is actually in the military? And of those, who is an officer? The reason I ask is officers tend to know a lot more about the planning and strategic side of military ops and are most qualified to answer questions like these; however, there are some exceptions. Some enlisted personnel are very bright in that aspect as well.

Well call me one of the exceptions. In fact call my old unit an entire anomaly, because the 4 years I served, the only thing we had for Platoon leaders were utter f*cking morons who were more happy with their shiny new butterbars.

Nope not at all. Just making sure we don't talk about an independent Marine 'air-force'. The terminology used was misleading.

 

[amish]

just another dumbass civie reporting, but isn't everything joint now? each branch supporting the other?

didn't the marines sit on the sidelines when afganistan started because of their "marines only support marines" policy?

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: amish
just another dumbass civie reporting, but isn't everything joint now? each branch supporting the other?

didn't the marines sit on the sidelines when afganistan started because of their "marines only support marines" policy?

1. Yes - joint operations are the essence of the US military (including operations with foreign allies). Essence is actually a poor word choice since as a whole the US military is not very good with joint operations, but becoming a fully integrated and joint force is the goal. And we work hard to improve on it.
2. I don't know what you're referencing, but it seems doubtful. Again, it goes against part 1 (being joint). The Marines seem always willing to help.

 

[Viper Frag]

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
I would think Air Force. They are the only ones who are mobile enough to actually be able to do anything within the first couple of days of war.

Keep in mind the Marine Corps also has its own mini air-force.

Yeah, it's called the Navy. Marines don't deploy with a Marine 'mini air-force'. They deploy with the organic assets of the carrier which includes Navy and Marine Corps aviators.

I am confused. Are you denying that there is Marine Aricraft Wing?

Only recon marines are non-conventional. All other marine assets are conventional; however, marines would not be able to survive in long term strategic battles. They are mostly used as a shock effect.

No the Marines hold the ethos of applying Combined Arms Warfare, which is to be sustainable over longer periods of time.

Just a question but who here is actually in the military? And of those, who is an officer? The reason I ask is officers tend to know a lot more about the planning and strategic side of military ops and are most qualified to answer questions like these; however, there are some exceptions. Some enlisted personnel are very bright in that aspect as well.

Well call me one of the exceptions. In fact call my old unit an entire anomaly, because the 4 years I served, the only thing we had for Platoon leaders were utter f*cking morons who were more happy with their shiny new butterbars.

Edit: You know what that statement about officers really annoys me. Are you telling me that a shiny 2nd LT or even 1st LT would know more about operational readiness that a Senior Staff NCO? If so, you should fit right in in the officer ranks. It really isn't that hard to conceptualize what you role is in the bigger picture during a deployment. In fact, of all the Marines I have met (and that's quite a few considering I was one) knew exactly what role they played, and how they fit into the overall picture in terms of deployment. It's one of the things they teach us at bootcamp.

If you cared to read my previous post, I had 5 years enlisted prior to joining the dark side. So don't lecture me son, unless you feel that you are more qualified in the subject.

Oh and Combined arms warfare is a joke in the marines since their assets are extremely limited thats why they havn't been able to hold long term engagements without the support of the army.

Viper-Frag

 

[Viper Frag]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Viper-Frag
Lol reading all responses made me laugh. It depends on the OE, operational environment. Lately its been ODA's from the Army, thats Operational Detachment Alpha which is ARMY SF. Oh and to add to that Army Combat Engineers usually go with SF, along with an operational support attachments.

P.S. I can support the abve statements since I do most of the planning for a few ODA's. Been in the ARMY for 6 years, 5 enlisted and 1 officer and still going.

Any other questions feel free to ask.

-Viper-Frag

so when do the ninjas go in then?

Where do you want them? LOL

Viper-Frag

 

[Viper Frag]

Originally posted by: amish
just another dumbass civie reporting, but isn't everything joint now? each branch supporting the other?

didn't the marines sit on the sidelines when afganistan started because of their "marines only support marines" policy?

Yes ideally it is, the air force and army have been playing that game and its been succesful; however, the marines havn't fully learned on how to be a team player yet.

Viper-Frag

 

[jersiq]

Did you even read what you wrote?

The reason I ask is officers tend to know a lot more about the planning and strategic side of military ops and are most qualified to answer questions like these; however, there are some exceptions. Some enlisted personnel are very bright in that aspect as well.

Not you, but generically "officers"

lol, "son" Nice try liver lips.

 

[Viper Frag]

LOL liver lips havn't heard that in a while. Yes unfortunatly there are some dumbass butter bars out there. Especially West Pointers, they can't tell the difference between there heads and their ass.

Viper-Frag

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: abracadabra1

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Marines take their orders from the President...other branches need Congress' approval. What do you think?

Interesting. Last I checked Congress is no where in any branch of service's chain of command.

Article I

The Congress shall have Power...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

I appreciate the constitution reference. But I again contend that Congress is in neither chain of command.

And your evidence?

The President is the Commander in Chief of the US Military. Congress has the power to declare war, but the president can use the military at his discretion for a period of time, I think its 120 days, without congressional approval. This was set up in the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, if I recall.

Congress does control the purse strings, but the President is the commander and chief.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

SAS

 

[ultimatebob]

Air Force... we usually bomb the hell out of everything before sending in the Rangers and the Marines.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Air Force... we usually bomb the hell out of everything before sending in the Rangers and the Marines.

Very true.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Air Force... we usually bomb the hell out of everything before sending in the Rangers and the Marines.

Read the OP, he was talking about boots on the ground.

SAS in the UK's case, for the US i'd assume that Marines recon platoons would be the first to land on hostile grounds.