Which power supply?

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Oct 9, 2010
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computersplushome.com
I'm going to explain this one last time whether you won't to believe it or not is up to you.

Your PSU works just like the electrical system in your house you have a 100 amp main load center with 4-15 amp circuits 2-20 amp circuits and 1-30 amp circuit why is your house wired like this safety but is any one circuit capable of delivering more amperage than the rated circuit is rated for no.
 

HOOfan 1

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2007
2,337
15
81
I'm going to explain this one last time whether you won't to believe it or not is up to you.

Your PSU works just like the electrical system in your house you have a 100 amp main load center with 4-15 amp circuits 2-20 amp circuits and 1-30 amp circuit why is your house wired like this safety but is any one circuit capable of delivering more amperage than the rated circuit is rated for no.

Exactly it is wired like that for safety...and the way COMPETENT PSU manufacturers design their multi-rail systems, you won't be in danger of overloading the rails. That is why High Wattage PSUs have their PCI-E cables spread over several rails.

The PCI-E specifications state that an 8 pin PCI-E plug should be asked to draw no more than 150W. (12.5A) a 6 pin PCI-E plug should be asked to draw no more than 75W (6.25W). The Antec Truepower New has an 8 pin PCI-E and a 6 pin PCI-E on a rail that is only limited to 25A. Yet by PCI-E specifications, they should not be asked to draw anymore than 18.75A So they have 6.25A to spare.

If single rail PSUs are your bag, fine, you are quite entitled to your own opinion. As for the OP, the Antec Truepower New is indeed better than the TX650 and in reality better than the HX650. Multiple rail versus single rail is a moot issue.
 
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theAnimal

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
3,828
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I'm going to explain this one last time whether you won't to believe it or not is up to you.
There's nothing to explain, read the sticky.

Your PSU works just like the electrical system in your house you have a 100 amp main load center with 4-15 amp circuits 2-20 amp circuits and 1-30 amp circuit why is your house wired like this safety but is any one circuit capable of delivering more amperage than the rated circuit is rated for no.
And why exactly would a rail need to deliver more than it's rating? The PSU has certain connectors on each rail which the user cannot change; simply connect your components and power on.
 

linje

Member
Jul 19, 2007
101
6
81
Wow alot of info.
Thanks to all.

I ended up getting an xfx 650,because of the combo deal with a lian li case.

once again thank you to all.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,222
136
Wow alot of info.
Thanks to all.

I ended up getting an xfx 650,because of the combo deal with a lian li case.

once again thank you to all.


Good choice of an excellent Seasonic built power supply. You won't be disappointed!

As for Computers_Plus, quit regurgitating PCP&C's marketing FUD. Despite your nick, it's become quite obvious you have no idea what you're talking about at all.
 
Oct 9, 2010
115
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computersplushome.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_rail

Multiple +12 V Rails

As power supply capacity increased, the ATX power supply standard was amended (beginning with version 2.0[3]) to include:
3.2.4. Power Limit / Hazardous Energy Levels

Under normal or overload conditions, no output shall continuously provide more than 240 VA under any conditions of load including output short circuit, per the requirement of UL 1950/ CSA 950/ EN 60950/ IEC 950.
—ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide, version 2.2[4]

This is a safety limit on the amount of power that may pass, in case of a fault, through any one wire. That much power can significantly overheat a wire, and would be more likely to melt the insulation and possibly start a fire.

Ideally, there would be one current limit per wire, but that would be prohibitively expensive. Since the limit is far larger than the reasonable current draw through a single wire, manufacturers typically group several wires together and apply the current limit to the entire group. Obviously, if the group is limited to 240 VA, so is each wire in it. Typically, a power supply will guarantee at least 17 A at 12 V by having a current limit of 18.5 A, plus or minus 8%. Thus, it is guaranteed to supply at least 17 A, and guaranteed to cut off before 20 A.

These groups are the so-called "multiple power supply rails". They are not fully independent; they are all connected to a single high-current 12 V source inside the power supply, but have separate current limit circuitry. The current limit groups are documented so the user can avoid placing too many high-current loads in the same group.

This works in the same way, and for the same reason, as the many small circuit breakers in a circuit breaker panel as well as the main supply breaker. And just like typical domestic wiring, multiple outlets are connected to each circuit breaker for reasons of cost.

Originally, a power supply featuring "multiple +12 V rails" implied one able to deliver more than 20 A of +12 V power, and was seen as a good thing. However, people found the need to balance loads across many +12 V rails inconvenient. This problem was exacerbated by the fact that the assignment of connectors to rails is done at manufacturing time, and it is not always possible to move a given load to a different rail.

Rather than add more current limit circuits, many manufacturers have chosen to ignore the requirement and increase the current limits above 20 A per rail, or provide "single-rail" power supplies that omit the current limit circuitry. (In some cases, in violation of their own advertising claims to include it. For one example of many, see [5]) The requirement was deleted from version 2.3 (March 2007) of the ATX12V power supply specifications.[6]
[edit]
Operation of overcurrent protection

When a power supply has multiple-rail overcurrent protection, if any rail reaches that limit, the entire power supply will shut down. This is not associated with any overheating or increase in ripple voltage by the power supply as a whole, as might be caused by an overall overload. The only reliability penalty from operating a rail close to its current limit comes from the risk of triggering the shutdown.
 

tomoyo

Senior member
Oct 5, 2005
418
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Ok you've officially become Computers_minus. Once again, you ignored the sticky altogether and posted information from two of the MOST WORTHLESS SOURCES POSSIBLE.
Worst Source #1: Pc Power and Fooling.
Worst Source #2: Wikipedia.
There is no hope for you at this point until you actually read and BELIEVE the sticky.
It's simple. Given two power supplies of equal quality, I would ALWAYS pick the multiple rail psu for safety.
 
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theAnimal

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
3,828
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However, people found the need to balance loads across many +12 V rails inconvenient. This problem was exacerbated by the fact that the assignment of connectors to rails is done at manufacturing time, and it is not always possible to move a given load to a different rail.

LOL! Why would you give the end user the ability to decide what goes on which rail?
 

gammaray

Senior member
Jul 30, 2006
859
17
81
...
There is no hope for you at this point until you actually read and BELIEVE the sticky.
It's simple. Given two power supplies of equal quality, I would ALWAYS pick the multiple rail psu for safety.

For the average users, yes.

For computer builders into intense video games, no.

The single rail PSU will always provide more constant efficient wattage to your video cards (yes, more than one) and everything in your case. Try it if you don't believe me. I did, and sometimes multi rails PSU would not even power up a system with 4 video cards.
 

fffblackmage

Platinum Member
Dec 28, 2007
2,548
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The single rail PSU will always provide more constant efficient wattage to your video cards (yes, more than one) and everything in your case.
Numbers?
sometimes multi rails PSU would not even power up a system with 4 video cards.
Of course some PSUs will fail to work right. Even single rail PSUs may fail in this case. You need to show an example that between two PSUs of similar quality and same specs, the multi-rail PSU failed where the single-rail PSU did not.

Basically, you made some nice statements, but you failed to provide any reasoning to why that's the case or any evidence to support your case.

And what is "more constant efficient wattage?"
 

gammaray

Senior member
Jul 30, 2006
859
17
81
Numbers?

Of course some PSUs will fail to work right. Even single rail PSUs may fail in this case. You need to show an example that between two PSUs of similar quality and same specs, the multi-rail PSU failed where the single-rail PSU did not.

Basically, you made some nice statements, but you failed to provide any reasoning to why that's the case or any evidence to support your case.

And what is "more constant efficient wattage?"

1- yes it could have been that i was unlucky with multi rails but it was with good brand names, won't name them here. 4 rails with 22 or 25A each as oppose to one single rail.

2- you're right, and i won't provide any, just talking from experience.

3- it means it won't fluctuate and the rest is too technical so i retract what i said, unless someone wanna add-on to it.
 

tomoyo

Senior member
Oct 5, 2005
418
0
0
For the average users, yes.

For computer builders into intense video games, no.

The single rail PSU will always provide more constant efficient wattage to your video cards (yes, more than one) and everything in your case. Try it if you don't believe me. I did, and sometimes multi rails PSU would not even power up a system with 4 video cards.

Completely wrong. Your point is regarding crap psus that are NOT quality. Any high quality currently designed multi-rail psu will basically never have rail sizing issues. See something such as the Antec HCP-1200. It will never fail you due to rail limits.
 

theAnimal

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
3,828
23
76
The single rail PSU will always provide more constant efficient wattage to your video cards (yes, more than one) and everything in your case. Try it if you don't believe me. I did, and sometimes multi rails PSU would not even power up a system with 4 video cards.

Only sometimes? Sounds like a bad PSU to me. I assume your PSU had all the necessary PCIe connectors for the 4 video cards?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,554
10,171
126
Only sometimes? Sounds like a bad PSU to me. I assume your PSU had all the necessary PCIe connectors for the 4 video cards?

Yeah, I've got a F@H rig with FOUR 9600GSO cards, all slightly overclocked to 1620 shader clock, all running off of a supposedly bad multi-rail Antec EA 650W. Works just fine.
 

linje

Member
Jul 19, 2007
101
6
81
Another question. I picked up an nzxt matx case from directron yesterday.(too good of a deal to pass up). So i'm going to be building a lan box.

pII x4 940
1 hdd
1 optical
4 gigs memory
460 1gig or 6800 series

was wondering if there was a quality psu, that does'nt weigh as much as a cinder block.
 
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