Which project car to select?

[Mide]

So after changing jobs, my wife and I now carpool in a Prius most of the time so that is now our primary car. I sold off my Infiniti G since it just sat there in the garage depreciating. Now I may be taking some evening Auto Mechanic classes at a local Community college for fun and would like a cheaper high-mileage car to get to/from class and to tinker around with. Looking only to spend around 3-4k on something. I've tinkered with cars in the past and can do simple things like change brakes, all fluids, plugs, etc, but am hoping that I learn a bit more in school.

So of all these cars which one would you guys recommend?

1997-1999 Acura CL (Absolutely loved the look of this car when I was still in college. Learned later that it had crazy transmission problems. Don't know if the problems could be solved with a tranny rebuild or if it was an inherent design flaw.)

2002-2004 Civic Si (Thought the hatchback design was cool. Probably the most reliable of the bunch but it's hard to find one that hasn't been ransacked by ricers)

1999-2002 Saab 9-3 SE (I'm a Saab fan after experiencing how much fun having a turbocharger was. Sometimes these hatchbacks can go for 1-3k on CL. Bad thing is that the engine had this issue with oil sludge and it's a hit or miss depending on how well previous owners took are of it)

2007 Saab 9-3 (I like the look of the 2007 model-both exterior and redesigned interior. The newer 2008+ would be gravy. This would be borderline a replacement for the G since it would be much newer than the other cars mentioned. But of course the price would be near the 6-9k range which is not really "project car" territory.

So what is everyone's thoughts? The goal of the car would be a "fun secondary car" that I could tinker around with to replace parts and learn. It's kinda like buying an older x-series Thinkpad to mess around with different OSes.

 

[tortillasoup]

No to the Saab, nasty ass saab no to any hondas with V6 engines (either due to their unreliable transmissions or because they still in 2013 have timing belts!).

None of the cars you listed can you buy for $5K let alone $3-4K. If you're going to buy a car to work on, buy a late 90s Oil burning corolla and do a rebuild on it (for learning experience). The corolla has a timing chain and after you fix the engine to have correctly sized pistons and rings, it should be bullet proof. Get a Manual transmission to liven it up.

 

[Imported]

Out of those, I'd probably pick the Civic.

If you really want a fun vehicle and don't care for its impracticability, get a Miata.

 

[Harrod]

Personally I would go for the newer saab as long as you didn't get a v6 one.

I used to have a 9-5 that I liked alot, but had to get rid of due to getting married. I still miss that car. I also learned quite a bit working on it, although getting parts for it was a nightmare. This probably wouldn't be a huge deal if you didn't mind waiting for parts to arrive from Goldwing Saab.

 

[Mide]

I have actually found all of those cars for under 5k minus the 2007 9-3; private party though.

Yeah I have a friend that did the same for a Miata but he lives in AZ so it's more convenient there. I'm not game for a convertable in cold-ass weather even with the top down.

 

[Mide]

Personally I would go for the newer saab as long as you didn't get a v6 one.

I used to have a 9-5 that I liked alot, but had to get rid of due to getting married. I still miss that car. I also learned quite a bit working on it, although getting parts for it was a nightmare. This probably wouldn't be a huge deal if you didn't mind waiting for parts to arrive from Goldwing Saab.

Yeah parts would be harder since there are limited locations to get 'em. I'd get the 4-banger Linear no v6 Aero for me...

 

[deadken]

If I were you, I'd consider something a bit simpler. I can't comment on any of the cars you suggested, since they are all too new for me to consider as a 'project' car. Someone else suggested a Miata, which I like but feel you might still be a bit limited with. How about an older European car or some American Iron?

Depending where you live, a car like a Volvo 1800, VW Karman Ghia, Olds Cutlass, Buick Skylark, etc... could be an AWESOME car to have. IOW: cars a bit older than the ones you suggested are very forgiving to 'learning on'. If you'd consider that, I'd suggest buying the best body condition you can. Then, take your time and fix up the interior and powertrain as you go along. I always liked the Saab 900's, why not look for one of those? I owned a Saab Sonnet, but I don't know how available parts are for those anymore. A Turbo 900 with a solid transmission (I hated changed transmissions on those cars) could be just what you are looking for!

 

[monkeydelmagico]

CL: the smaller 4 cylinder didn't have the tranny problems like the 3.2's and S series had
Good solid choice but probably not going to offer alot of car mechanic type requirements

Saabs: dirt cheap, fun, lots of opportunities to fix them if you have a good junk yard or access to parts. Turbo tinkering has alot of potiential. non-turbo = meh not worth the hassle

civic: good luck finding a decent one in you price range. Patience is key here. I'm a big fan of older honda's and acuras. Easy to work on and reliable.

Open to other makes and models?

 

[Mide]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Yeah I'm open to other models but I want to actually like the car I'm driving, not purely a fixerupper so an old Buick is not up my alley but good suggestion for a 100% tinker car.

CL: Yeah I'm game for the 2.3L 4-banger, not the 3.0L v6

Civic: I've only found 1 that fits the cake but by the time I get around to test driving it I'm sure it will be gone already...located 300 miles away.

Anyway I'll keep looking around, these were the only older models that peaked my interest visually.

 

[Kelvrick]

I'm going to throw out a suggestion of a 1993+ subaru impreza (and outback sports which are the same car but lifted). They can be found pretty cheap now and a lot of the parts will interchange up through 2001 and some parts beyond that. I found my current project/track/beater 1993 subaru impreza for $750. Granted, to get it reliably running (several 300+ mile trips and as a daily beater), it needed another $1500 (new engine, some random parts).

Since then, I've destroyed 2 transmissions (1993 5 speeds weren't meant for track use) and am maybe a month away from putting in the guts from a 2002 wrx (t-boned carcass purchased for 2700). I can't wait for 240+ horses in a 2600lb body.

Broken axle here.

Held up well on the corkscrew at Laguna Seca though.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

accord coupe, e36 bmw, miata, stang, lt4 firebirds/camros, cop car, integra, neon acr, gtp grand prix, maxima se

off the top of my head I'm sure with a bit more thought the list of possibles could grow much longer.

 

[deadken]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Yeah I'm open to other models but I want to actually like the car I'm driving, not purely a fixerupper so an old Buick is not up my alley but good suggestion for a 100% tinker car...

I agree, it's all about whatever you like. I'll say that compared to some of the Chevy and Pontiac prices, Buicks and Oldsmobiles can deliver an affordable car that was based on the same chassis as their more expensive counterparts. If you drove a Turbo Regal, you might find a similar driving experience to the Grand National. Certainly a car that I'd think you would 'like driving'. I understand what you are saying about a %100 tinker car. But, the point I was trying to make is that staying away from OBDII would likely fit what I understood you to describe in your OP better than one of the OBDII cars that you've mentioned. I just feel that your abilitity to actually "tinker around with to replace parts and learn" is limited by the many emissions and computer limitations on later cars. Of course, I don't know what State you live in, so YMMV.

EDIT: +1 on the Neon suggested above. An inexpensive car that while certainly OBDII, has an established line of aftermarket parts some of which were sold by Chrysler in attempts to support the car for SCCA / AutoX.

 

[shabby]

Horrible project car list, there's nothing "project" about them. Miata, fiero, 240, older bmw...

 

[ipown1337]

Civic owner here (2008), I believe that the civic SI mentioned above has a k20 with vtec only on side of the valve train good for 160 HP but I'm sure swapping a head is no big deal. What really concerns me about those cars is the space in the engine bay, make sure that you are really comfortable with it, a very tight engine bay can be a buzz kill..

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Do you really want a FWD car as a dedicated secondary project car?

Every car on your list strikes me as a good commuter/primary transportation vehicle that you can tinker with now and then.


As a dedicated project car, I personally would be looking at e36/46, z4 3.0, miata, wrx, e39 i6 w/ sport, mustang if that's your thing... These all have huge mod userbases and tons of forum support. Most of them can be found for around $5k. Parts for all are cheap. They are all (except the subie) super easy to work on.

They are, to me, going to be far more rewarding to tinker with compared to a FWD econobox.

I understand what people are saying about buying an old civic that needs work, but in my opinion you really need to be emotionally attached to a project car or you end up miserable.

 

[Mide]

Do you really want a FWD car as a dedicated secondary project car?

Every car on your list strikes me as a good commuter/primary transportation vehicle that you can tinker with now and then.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I believe I may have made a mistake by using the word 'project'. To me a project car would be one that I could mess with, replace parts, and doesn't have low tolerances if I screw up. But the main goal is for me to keep it on the road without needing to go to a shop. From the sounds of it 'project' to most people who have responded is more of totally souping up a car for the track, performance, or otherwise RWD cars. So I think my wording was totally my bad.

They are all (except the subie) super easy to work on.

Out of curiosity why are subies harder to work on? I had an Impreza (non-wrx) before and it seemed to have the largest engine bay vs other hondas and nissans I've messed with in the past. Although I haven't done anything monumental in terms of replacements and such.

 

[Zivic]

Get something rwd or awd.

 

[nerp]

My project car will likely be 71 Dodge Dart swinger with the slant 6.

 

[JCH13]

Out of those, I'd probably pick the Civic.

If you really want a fun vehicle and don't care for its impracticability, get a Miata.

X2, or an MR2 (preferrably NA, unless you want more to fix/tinker with).

Doesn't really matter what drive style it is, frankly, except that AWD is always going to be complicated and break more frequently. What you want is something that's cheap and relatively easy to work on, fairly simple and reliable, with good aftermarket parts and knowledge support.

Skip the Saabs. Subarus too IMO. Do you really want to take a recommendation from someone who shows you a picture of their car being towed away from the track? (Just yanking your chain Kelvrick)

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I believe I may have made a mistake by using the word 'project'. To me a project car would be one that I could mess with, replace parts, and doesn't have low tolerances if I screw up. But the main goal is for me to keep it on the road without needing to go to a shop. From the sounds of it 'project' to most people who have responded is more of totally souping up a car for the track, performance, or otherwise RWD cars. So I think my wording was totally my bad.

Out of curiosity why are subies harder to work on? I had an Impreza (non-wrx) before and it seemed to have the largest engine bay vs other hondas and nissans I've messed with in the past. Although I haven't done anything monumental in terms of replacements and such.

When I read "fun secondary car" it means, to me, something that can be down for a few days or a week if really needed. It sounded like you regularly commute with the wifey, and this would be a nice weather fun car.

But really, either way, none of the cars listed are all that unreliable. The biggest benefit to a civic over a bmw or miata is just about every corner shop can work on a civic without hesitation.

With wrx reliability it's more of a personal thing. We never have snow, so I don't care about awd or it's added complexity. As a matter of fact I would prefer not to have awd, rwd is just more fun up in the mountains. I also don't care for subaru engine bay layouts, with tons of hoses and wiring mess everywhere. A miata or even bmw tends to have simpler overall engine bays and drivetrains. It's primarily personal preference more than anything, wrx is a good car with a lot of forum support.

 

[JCH13]

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I believe I may have made a mistake by using the word 'project'. To me a project car would be one that I could mess with, replace parts, and doesn't have low tolerances if I screw up. But the main goal is for me to keep it on the road without needing to go to a shop. From the sounds of it 'project' to most people who have responded is more of totally souping up a car for the track, performance, or otherwise RWD cars. So I think my wording was totally my bad.

Enthusiast cars tend to have better aftermarket support and a better knowledge base than run-of-the-mill commuter boxes. For this reason they also make good cars to tinker with and keep running on your own. Additionally, RWD cars tend to have more room in their engine bays to get to everything.

My Miata is one of the easiest cars to work on that I have ever taken a wrench to, in no small part because of the drive layout and the user-created how-to documents that are better than the FSM.

Out of curiosity why are subies harder to work on? I had an Impreza (non-wrx) before and it seemed to have the largest engine bay vs other hondas and nissans I've messed with in the past. Although I haven't done anything monumental in terms of replacements and such.

The boxer engine, and a subie engine bay in general, is very low and compact. There are lots of wires, hoses, and many of the items on the front of the engine are relatively difficult to get to.

Not that they're impossible to work on at all, though.

 

[Kelvrick]

X2, or an MR2 (preferrably NA, unless you want more to fix/tinker with).

Doesn't really matter what drive style it is, frankly, except that AWD is always going to be complicated and break more frequently. What you want is something that's cheap and relatively easy to work on, fairly simple and reliable, with good aftermarket parts and knowledge support.

Skip the Saabs. Subarus too IMO. Do you really want to take a recommendation from someone who shows you a picture of their car being towed away from the track? (Just yanking your chain Kelvrick)

I'll admit that photo was probably the car's fault. I went a little wide and hit the dip right before the rumble strips started and I'm thinking a 20 year old axle decided it was time to retire.

Sounds like the OP probably wants a fwd car though. Something with a smaller 4 cylinder 1.6-2 liter engine to keep the engine bay from being too crowded.

I'll also agree that the more "performance/aftermarket" oriented models will have much better unofficial support. More forums, more forum members and the walkthroughs those members posted to help you through your troubles.

Just buy something you like the look of to help motivate you to work on it.

 

[JCH13]

Just buy something you like the look of to help motivate you to work on it.

x2

Nothing motivates fixing/work better than having a car you really like to drive.

 

[row]

73 or early bug. there is nothing on the planet more simple to work on, with the right combo you can achieve 30 mpg with smog free 60's/70's technology. depending on where you live, if there is snow, nothing other than a four wheel drive will give you as good traction as a bug. plus, their resale value does nothing but go north.

ps someone above mentioned a carmen ghia, forget that, unless you get lucky, their too expensive. i'm biased, but they (bugs) are also beautiful (see my "67" this forum).

 

[Danimal1209]

1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX / Eagle Talong TSI (AWD Model) / Plymouth Laser RS

All 2.0L turbo charged cars with a huge fanbase for tons of cheap used parts. SIMPLE to work on and are reliable if you do maintenance.

300+whp Eclipse GSX owner.