Which PSU brands are best?

[Super Nade]

The older Antec TP's were also over specced by a good 100W. I recapped one and upon obtaining the ATE results was shocked because the damn thing fell apart. Huge pulsations > 400mV on the 12V and VReg was all over the place. Clearly, the SP400 was not a 400W unit, it was more like a 300W unit with crap caps.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Martimus
That was just a guess, as I couldn't find anything that would cause such a large load on the supply that would cause it to blow up. I had no shorts anywhere in my system, and it happened during bootup. I figured my crappy power did it in.

Ah.. a guess. So you didn't actually open it and see blown out MOV's?

Yeah... The old Antec's had problems with blowing caps on the secondaries. Had nothing to do with load or dirty power or anything. They'd just overheat and pop their tops. I'd bet that's what happened to yours.

Antec's past and present always had adequate transient filtering.

Since I had always worked with safety critical automotive equipment (at least when that happened), I never would have thought that the individual components could be so bad that they couldn't even run at spec, or below in this case. We always tested the crap out of our components, but if one did give out and caused a system malfunction, someone could die (Although, if the probablility was high enough, we would have a backup of some sort). It just seems strange to me that someone would design something that would fail within its intended use. It isn't that hard to figure out if the caps were going to good enough, I used to do those kinds of tests as an college intern.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Well having had bad experiences with antec and now enermax I'm wishing that the government would test these things and put a rating on them. Hell they crash test cars why not stress test pc components and put a mandatory rating on them. It would give buyers something to go by when choosing equipment.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Well, with the Antec situation you had a combination of things going on.....

The Fuhjyyu caps were rated at 85°C, and would do what they're supposed to do at 85°C+, but for how long?

Antec chose to outfit these PSU's with very quiet, low CFM fans. So internal PSU temperatures were often 85°C+.

The thing that was never calculated was how long the product would last under these conditions. Of course, short term testing and correct data could have revealed this was bound to be a problem. For example: I'm sure Fuhjyyu had MTBF data for their 85°C caps at 85°C operating temperature. THAT MTBF should have been calculated into the PSU's MTBF and if Antec desired a longer use life, they should have increase FAN RPM's, at least at higher loads, to keep temperatures BELOW 85°C.

 

[Martimus]

JonnyGuru, thanks for responding. That is very interesting. I know that whenever we would switch vendors on a component, we wouldn't trust their datasheet until we tested 50-100 of them to make sure that they worked the way they were supposed to. That isn't a great sample size, but it gave us a pretty good idea if their numbers were conservative, or if they were on the edge of what they could really do. I'll quit my attempted hijack of this thread now, and I am glad that I know what the real issue on the Antec PSU's I had really was. (although it doesn't explain why they had trouble pwering more than 2 drives, when the last one was rated at a higher 12V power rating than my current PC P&C that has no trouble with them at all.)

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Martimus
I know that whenever we would switch vendors on a component, we wouldn't trust their datasheet until we tested 50-100 of them to make sure that they worked the way they were supposed to.

Well, that's just it.. they did operate the way they were supposed to, even under the increased temperatures. They just never tested for the long haul.

Originally posted by: Martimus
I am glad that I know what the real issue on the Antec PSU's I had really was. (although it doesn't explain why they had trouble pwering more than 2 drives, when the last one was rated at a higher 12V power rating than my current PC P&C that has no trouble with them at all.)

Well, secondary cap failure doesn't always result in sudden death. If the caps are merely buldging and leaking electrolyte, they may just effect the output capability of the PSU. Limited ripple and noise filtering and lower capacity.

 

[Duwelon]

I replaced an Antec TP 550 unit about 6 months ago because my voltages were drooping like crazy across the board. It was manufacturered by CWT right?

Reason I ask is because i'm thinking about a new Rig and going with the Corsair TX750 since it's the same price (or was) as the HX620. The TX750 i understand is also CWT... is there any reason to fear the TX750 because it's made by CWT and not Seasonic?

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
I replaced an Antec TP 550 unit about 6 months ago because my voltages were drooping like crazy across the board. It was manufacturered by CWT right?

Reason I ask is because i'm thinking about a new Rig and going with the Corsair TX750 since it's the same price (or was) as the HX620. The TX750 i understand is also CWT... is there any reason to fear the TX750 because it's made by CWT and not Seasonic?

No as jonny already stated the problem with the Antecs built by CWT was poor capacitor selection. The majority of CWT built units now have decent capacitors.

 

[mwmorph]

Lots of posts here but what happened to FSP(Fortron)/Sparkle?

Last time I checked, a couple of years ago, they were top notch, not PC&P but still very good power supplies and a great value.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lots of posts here but what happened to FSP(Fortron)/Sparkle?

Last time I checked, a couple of years ago, they were top notch, not PC&P but still very good power supplies and a great value.

FSP is still around. But once PSU quality and performance was improved by so many other OEM's, FSP sort fo fell to the back of the race.

They still make some half way decent product, typically in the lower end of the spectrum, like the Antec Basiq, OCZ GameXstream/StealthXstream, the newer, cheaper SilverStone Element, etc.

 

[Rubycon]

Woah most electrolytic cap heat is generated internally. True a high ambient augments the issue...

I never probe a PS unless something is wrong and by then it's toast. I have scanned caps on motherboards and some of them - while running in the open with air perhaps 30 degrees centigrade MAX - scored a surface temp over 70 degrees centigrade! Touching one = ouch.

 

[secretanchitman]

ive never had a problem with my antec smartpower 300w (old psu) and my 2 enermax 500w modular psus...i have seen the ratings on the enermax's and they dont look good, but they havent failed on me for years now!

i would like to see the new enermax (mod32/mod69+/mod85- whatever the name is) psus tested...

holy hell out of all places AT has them reviewed JUST today!!! lolol

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Woah most electrolytic cap heat is generated internally. True a high ambient augments the issue...

I never probe a PS unless something is wrong and by then it's toast. I have scanned caps on motherboards and some of them - while running in the open with air perhaps 30 degrees centigrade MAX - scored a surface temp over 70 degrees centigrade! Touching one = ouch.

Right. Now take that and put it in an environment that's running 40 to 50°C (PSU typically sucks in 40°C environment sucking hot air off the CPU, but with it's own heat ends up with 50°C+ temps inside.)

Also the duty of a cap in a PSU is quite different than a mobo. I've never seen an internal cap temp (based on test reports from OEM's) of greater than 85°C.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: secretanchitman
ive never had a problem with my antec smartpower 300w (old psu) and my 2 enermax 500w modular psus...i have seen the ratings on the enermax's and they dont look good, but they havent failed on me for years now!

If the failure rate was 100%.. or even 50%... the companies wouldn't even be in business. Nobody said that ALL Antec and Enermax PSU's fail. It just seems to be an unusually high number with certain models.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
If the failure rate was 100%.. or even 50%... the companies wouldn't even be in business. Nobody said that ALL Antec and Enermax PSU's fail. It just seems to be an unusually high number with certain models.

"Unusually high" might mean, what, 5%? Years ago I saw in some literature (maybe CRN?) that "normal" failure rates (not counting, ahem, user error) was typically 2% with computer components. IMO this might also vary depending on the type/complexity of component. After all, how often do you see failures of PCI Firewire cards?

 

[jonnyGURU]

Yeah. Typical is 2%. That's actual failure. Return rate is much higher because Joe Enduser is typically dumb. Let's say up to 10%. "Unusually high" is a failure rate of 2 to 10%, so it's still not much. I think the Antec situation may be higher since it's a "known design flaw" but the circumstances still have to be right to kill one: high heat, adequate load, lots of use.

 

[khelben1979]

Driverheaven has a couple of tests on there powersupplys which is really good! You can find it here: http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?category=18

By personal experience, however, I will say this:
Chieftec powersupplies isn't good (mine went bad after just 2 years)

Antec powersupplies is good, but not as good as the competetion nowadays it seems.
Antec have been my favourite and the Neopower powersupplys is really quiet!

At the current the CorsairTX powersupplys is my favourite. They have a 5 year warranty also!
Bjorn3D and Driverheaven has reviews on these.

 

[rich168]

im moving to the toughpower.

any dissenting opinion?

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: rich168
im moving to the toughpower.

any dissenting opinion?

OT.

Opinion to start a new thread.