Which speed would you rather run?

mboy

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Would you rather run a P4 3.0c @ a CPU FSB of 245 (5:4) @ 3.6hz and ram 196 MHZ (5-2-2-2-pc3200) OR 220 FSB (1:1) 3.30Ghz 5-2-2-2 with Ram in synch of course?
Why?
Thanks for your opinion.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: VIAN
People tell me P4s run better at 5:4.
It depends, but in this case the 300mhz clockspeed should perform better from seeing testing done by members here.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Trust me I did this exercise about 6 months ago and ram speed is one of the biggest farces out there today.....Raw cpu speed will trump ram speed and at 300mhz difference not even close unless you are gaming or running 3dmock and your vid card a piece of crap.....


I ran it testing just a 100mhz and 5:4 was better...

Cas timings are the same which still doesn't make enough difference to matter...Cpu speed will still win here....For most of ocers we were using 2.4's and 2.6's so 1:1 ram ratios usually meant expensice pc4000 stick and terrible cas 3 timings so you have definitely took that out of the equation....


Edit: By farce I mean for the cost of what some of the higher speed memory sticks go for and achieve high memory scores in sandra but very often never equate to real world increases anyway near the same percentages....
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,713
142
106
5:4 for sure
it's not even a competition really
300mhz is enough to make the P4 not care if it loses 1/3rd of it mem bandwidth or whatever

both settings are solid tho, but i give the definate upper hand to the 3.6ghz 5:4 setup
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
if it was 3.5 vs 3.6 with a big divider difference it might be worth it to go 3.5...

but 3.3 vs 3.6, go for the higher number.
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,713
142
106
I agree, and the memory timings in both his settings are the same which is comparably fast, which don't give an upper hand to the lower clocked system , also if the memory is operating in dual channel mode then the system as a whole will hardly notice or react to an extra 200 to 500 MB/s of mem bandwidth or whatever he's getting (probably 200-300 which can't compare to the total system memory bandwidth and can be concidered barely 250MB/s more bandwidth if you take into account the fact that the 196mhz mem system will likely benefit greater from the increased fsb of 245 than the already plentiful default dual channel settings of 200 1:1 will from a modest pump in the fsb and mem to 220 ).

basically what i'm trying to say in the parenthesis is that the cpu when running over 3ghz with 5:4 will have an increased need for bandwidth to and from the cpu because it already has a ratio of roughly 5:8 fsb:mem bandwidth (dual channel mmm) which means in most cases it'll fall well above a single channel solution whose demand for increase memory mhz might matter more. The fact that dual channel versus single channel never really yeilds more than 10% in real world situations leads me to believe that the slight hit at 5:4 will not harm the system more than maybe 2 to 3% at the same clockspeed imo (atleast under cpu-only tests) and the fsb increases and clock speed increase each by themselves are more than enough to account for the slight discrepency and then some with change to spare
my guess would be that the two systems might come closest (not close enough tho) in performance scores when put in situations that rely heavily on the vid card/agp bus because this is the only situation i could see the extra bandwidth really helping and possible saturation of the fsb and mem bandwidth at the same time with prolonged maximum intensity might give the 1:1 system with more mem bandwidth the upper edge when it comes to those extra 1 to 5 fps that the video card can push out. Also it is possible that in a well programmed and highly "new" benchmark might find the system to be cpu-limited because either the vid card is that good or the game/benchmark uses intense AI/physics/calculations which bring any cpu between would need to be complex enough to bring 3 to 4ghz P4's or slower to a crawl just on intense work.
This situation is highly unlikely, and as almost all games/graphics and full system gaming benchmarks i've seen seem to not pressure the cpu nearly that much before maxing out the vid card, whatever kind it may be, because using the resources in this way is neither neccesarry or likely to be a goal of any software/game/bench/etc,.
Therefore I would stake 5 bucks on the 1:1 system not winning any benchmarks unless they are synthetic mem bandwidth benchmarks, or some kinda program that needs access to the memory from places other than the cpu, and it's fsb, and with intense consistency/bandwidth too (the only real candidate for this is the vid card and the 8x agp bus tho).

the cpu is still the main peice of the computer when utilized in any program (including games and gaming benchmarks), as much as nvidia and ati might like to see different in the future of desktop graphics and "home pc media/graphics centers" or whatever they might call a pc whose most powerfull and often utilized for "normal daily use" single computing unit is the video card (caugh did someone say console).

Because of all this i believe the fsb increase is nearly twice as vital in this particular situation as the memory increase in almost all situations/uses unless other factors are involved. The "substantially higher clock speed" of the cpu, when compared to the the nearly two or so P4 models higher in the performance list that this represents, the answer becomes clear


go 3.6 go !!!
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: superHARD
Do a 3DMark one way and again the other way...see what one scores better.

Don't recommend that synthetic crap program!!! Run real apps if you need to test...ppl run sissoft mem scores and 1:1 versus 5:4 likely could be 10% but it is highly unlikey it would win any real world apps and often would lose by 5-10%....
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,713
142
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hey Duvie how do you like that Geil Ultra PLat. you got ??

what kinda speed did you get it to etc. ?
 

Shimmishim

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2001
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i'm gonna haev to agree with duvie on this one...

on benches such as 3dmock2k1...

i was able to score 20.2K with 3.5 ghz @ 292 with 5:4
but only able to score 600 points better at 4.0 ghz @ 267 with 5:4

bandwidth > clockspeed for certain things
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: Soulkeeper
hey Duvie how do you like that Geil Ultra PLat. you got ??

what kinda speed did you get it to etc. ?


I have gotten them to 470ddr with 2.8v....Can't give it anymore on this abit and actually only can deliver 2.78v......That 470 was 1:1 at 235fsb with my older 2.6ghz p4c....I lose 5:4 stable ratio at 260fsb on my abit and can only use 3:2 there after....That run rather cool even at 2.8v so I think I could take it up to 3.0v and aim a case fan it and all would be safe...

So as far as I know these are not good sticks to run with high fsb as they likely have the ch-5 chips and thus why 255-260 is a problem area with them....

I likely am going to sell them and get 1 stick of 1gb pc3200 and buy another for 2gb I am putting together on my new wrkstation CAD machine I am setting up....
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,713
142
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well good luck on that CAD machine
your overclock is looking pretty good tho
i got my prescott at 3.30 right now 5:4

that's a bummer about the ch-5 chips they shoulda left that junk in the pc3200 model
you shoulda got the golden dragon or something where they use their own chips and have high voltage ranges supported. that was the pc3500 I noticed mostly from geil. (well yur voltage might be the only real problem too)
it's all about hynix chips then for now i suppose if people want those 250+ speeds on ddr1
 

mboy

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2001
3,309
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Looks like it will stay @ 3.67. Mem is dual chanel btw.
Not that I would base my decision on it in any way, and don't want to use synthetic benchies to determine which way to run the P4, BUT my 3dmk2003 score @ 3.3(1:1) was 6527 and with 3.6(5:4) is 6682 with a cpu score of 694 vs 766.
As a side note, my previous high was 6279 with my AMD XP 2100 @ 2.3GHz (211fsb) using the same memory and that was Oc;ing my 9800 Pro more then the P4 tests.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
The first 1 hands down. Why?

1) P4 benefits greatly from higher FSB and by you running 3.6ghz you'll have greater FSB
2) 3.6ghz > 3.3ghz
3) you are running at tight timings in both scenerios which is excellent but you might get 2-5% boost running in sync, but the 1st 2 points should offset that.

Also you can just do benches for yourself and find out
 

ectx

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2000
1,398
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I have a 3.0c and two types of memory

(1) 3.57 (238x15) at 1:1 timing 2.5 4 4 8 (Geil)
(2) 3.57 (238x15) at 5:4 timing 2 2 2 6 (buffalo Bh-5)

How about:

(3) 3.3 (220x15) at 1:1, timing 2 2 2 6 (buffalo Bh-5)

2x256 dual channel.

Which configuation would you use?

I also have 2x512 memory sticks (Corsail bh-5). Would more memory make noticeable differences? (Not a gamer but use games for benchmarking. HDTV viewing and all other stuff that sounds fun).


Thanks.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Originally posted by: ectx
I have a 3.0c and two types of memory

(1) 3.57 (238x15) at 1:1 timing 2.5 4 4 8 (Geil)
(2) 3.57 (238x15) at 5:4 timing 2 2 2 6 (buffalo Bh-5)

How about:

(3) 3.3 (220x15) at 1:1, timing 2 2 2 6 (buffalo Bh-5)

2x256 dual channel.

Which configuation would you use?

Between 1 and 2, 2 will be slightly faster I think or if anything the performance difference will be 1-2% max in either direction. BH-5 chips should be able to hit 238FSB with 2.8V+ I believe. Have you tried running them overclocked?

Between 2 and 3, 2 is much better because the difference in CPU speed is 270mhz!!!
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,713
142
106
Here are some Pi benchmarks on my prescott 2.8e around those clock speeds

2973 212 170 5:4 1.42v
1m 46s
2m 1:45s

3110 222 177 5:4 1.42v
1m 43s
2m 1:39s

3220 230 184 5:4 1.42v
1m 42s
2m 1:36s

3307 236 189 5:4 1.52v
1m 40s
2m 1:33s

3366 240 192 5:4 1.52v
1m 40s
2m 1:32s

3435 245 196 5:4 1.52v
1m 39s
2m 1:30s

3223 230 230 1:1 1.52v
1m 41s
2m 1:34s

i find my chip topping out at around 3.3 lately so i am running that with 5:4 and with my mem running at 190 with fast timings I am getting almost the performance of a 200mhz default setup out of the mem subsystem. but the system as a whole has gained considerably from cpu mhz and fsb increases
 

smahoney

Senior member
Apr 8, 2003
278
0
0
3.6 - easy choice. 10% increase in CPU speed vs. 12.2% increase in memory bandwidth - No Contest especially with same mem timings.

PI Numbers 2.8C w/ PC4000
3640 262 262 1:1 1.575V 2.5-4-4-7 2.8V
1m 36s
2m 1:26s
 
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