Which sportbike is good?

[MixMasterTang]

Why the hell would an experienced rider do that?

Let me put it to you this way, he probably stalled it a dozen times before making this video so revving it to 10k rpms was the only way he could "launch" the bike without stalling it.

It is obvious to anyone who has ridden a motorcycle that he is a n00b because he revs it to 10k rpms and then slips the hell out of the clutch to get going. Not sure why you are defending him quite frankly... this is not really up for debate. It's not anywhere near the correct way to launch a bike... any bike. Or any car for that matter.

Is anyone else starting to think rstrohkirch is the guy in that video?

 

[DigDog]

Choices:

1.) Honda CBR 600RR?

excellent and very forgiving bike.

2.) MV Agusta F4R?

shit, probaly. i owned one of the serie oro and was never so disappointed with a $70k purchase.

3.) Ducati 1189R?

can you afford this? it would surely beat the others, but this is in a different group of $$$. (also, ducks tend to be small for tall riders)


aside from the fact i've vowed to never ride again, i would go for something different from what you listed here.

FYI if you are looking for a crotch rocket i'd say suzuki gsxr 1k.

 

[indy2878]

Choices:

1.) Honda CBR 600RR?

excellent and very forgiving bike.

2.) MV Agusta F4R?

shit, probaly. i owned one of the serie oro and was never so disappointed with a $70k purchase.

3.) Ducati 1189R?

can you afford this? it would surely beat the others, but this is in a different group of $$$. (also, ducks tend to be small for tall riders)


aside from the fact i've vowed to never ride again, i would go for something different from what you listed here.

FYI if you are looking for a crotch rocket i'd say suzuki gsxr 1k.

1.) From what I read the Honda CBR 600RR has a linear power delivery and flat torque curve. How does this compare to other bikes in terms of the velocity and the "feel"? How would you describe a sport bike G forces versus a sports car? I also heard its a great track weapon in good hands.


2.) $70k for an MV? I take it you had to import your bike and this included tax and import duties? There's also the F3 675 and 800 for less. Both I'm willing to bet are also good on the street and another track weapon as well. I probably would take the F3 675 since I'm not a tall dude myself.

3.) Actually its the 1199R Panigale which I mentioned on one of my later posts. You're right though. The sky high price does scare me a bit.


I honestly picked option #4. Based on talking to lots of people online and IRL about riding, 8 out of 10 think I should just stick to cars. I don't mind even getting a used AWD, turbo Lancer EVO or Subaru WRX STi. I at least get to live longer if anything. Its also more practical and if you feel 295 (EVO) and 305 (STi) HP "isn't enough" then you can always mod it.

Lastly, a Suzuki GSXR-600 in isle of man tt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDilZ2bP2FY

The Rider going so fast the brake lever almost brakes on its own.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Choices:

1.) Honda CBR 600RR?

excellent and very forgiving bike.

All of the 600cc Japanese bikes are excellent and there only minor differences between them. They are way more capable than 75% of the people who buy them.

2.) MV Agusta F4R?

shit, probaly. i owned one of the serie oro and was never so disappointed with a $70k purchase.

The top of the line F4RR costs $26k... not $70k. The regular F4 costs less than $20k USD

3.) Ducati 1189R?

can you afford this? it would surely beat the others, but this is in a different group of $$$. (also, ducks tend to be small for tall riders)

By different group of money do you mean less? The 1199R Panigale is $18,999 and the S model is $24,500 (better suspension). There is an R version too which is just a little lighter at $30,000.

aside from the fact i've vowed to never ride again, i would go for something different from what you listed here.

FYI if you are looking for a crotch rocket i'd say suzuki gsxr 1k.

:thumbsdown: That is really bad advice for a new rider... but then again so are all the bikes the OP was considering.

 

[DigDog]

the serie oro was the first run of 300, all carbon fibre and manganese wheels. i also had to pay a buyers premium. mine was n34.

i also owned (2) two 748R, a cbr 1100 xx, a gpz 900 R, svr 250, ss900, guzzi lario, and i have driven a few more.

there's many things you aren't told about bikes from riders mags, but i won't go into detail just yet. my opinion if that the cbr 600 rr or kawa 600 are the best choice for a new rider, including the fact that you "train" while riding them.

the sensible choice would be to get something like a suzuki sv 600, these are
1) cheap 2) easy to ride 3) easy to mantain and 4) easily disposable when their time is done.
however, riding one of those will never really teach you how to ride a proper sports bike, while the cbr will.

ducati bikes are so easy to ride, even a panigale would be ok for a first timer. i let my friend drive (while completely drunk) my 748r and he managed to get it around the block and not kill himself or the bike, and he's a total klutz. i guess alcohol just makes you a great beginner.

but again, i wouldn't get a bike anymore. i'd get a car.

 

[Fenixgoon]

the serie oro was the first run of 300, all carbon fibre and manganese wheels. i also had to pay a buyers premium. mine was n34.

i also owned (2) two 748R, a cbr 1100 xx, a gpz 900 R, svr 250, ss900, guzzi lario, and i have driven a few more.

there's many things you aren't told about bikes from riders mags, but i won't go into detail just yet. my opinion if that the cbr 600 rr or kawa 600 are the best choice for a new rider, including the fact that you "train" while riding them.

the sensible choice would be to get something like a suzuki sv 600, these are
1) cheap 2) easy to ride 3) easy to mantain and 4) easily disposable when their time is done.
however, riding one of those will never really teach you how to ride a proper sports bike, while the cbr will.

ducati bikes are so easy to ride, even a panigale would be ok for a first timer. i let my friend drive (while completely drunk) my 748r and he managed to get it around the block and not kill himself or the bike, and he's a total klutz. i guess alcohol just makes you a great beginner.

but again, i wouldn't get a bike anymore. i'd get a car.

there's something about these statements that kind of discredit everything else you say, but i can't quite put my finger on it:hmm::hmm:

 

[rstrohkirch]

Not sure why you are defending him quite frankly... this is not really up for debate.

Because every 2-3 days I browse through this forum and I find the responses entertaining. Besides, why not keep the thread alive considering the OP was just a silly as me giving defense to the rider in the video. Apparently though, he's doing a better job then I am because the thread somehow made it back on topic which is baffling.

 

[indy2878]

the serie oro was the first run of 300, all carbon fibre and manganese wheels. i also had to pay a buyers premium. mine was n34.

i also owned (2) two 748R, a cbr 1100 xx, a gpz 900 R, svr 250, ss900, guzzi lario, and i have driven a few more.

there's many things you aren't told about bikes from riders mags, but i won't go into detail just yet. my opinion if that the cbr 600 rr or kawa 600 are the best choice for a new rider, including the fact that you "train" while riding them.

the sensible choice would be to get something like a suzuki sv 600, these are
1) cheap 2) easy to ride 3) easy to mantain and 4) easily disposable when their time is done.
however, riding one of those will never really teach you how to ride a proper sports bike, while the cbr will.

ducati bikes are so easy to ride, even a panigale would be ok for a first timer. i let my friend drive (while completely drunk) my 748r and he managed to get it around the block and not kill himself or the bike, and he's a total klutz. i guess alcohol just makes you a great beginner.

but again, i wouldn't get a bike anymore. i'd get a car.

ha ha ha! That's a hilarious story if that is actually true with your friend and the 748r! Question? Is he an experienced rider? If not, then the only 2 ways I can think of this even being possible is: he stuck to 1st gear and NEVER shifted and was going REALLY slow the whole way through. I don't even want to ask about his clutch control from completely stop to getting the bike running off 1st gear. I think this thread if you read through it has plenty of pointers to this... :biggrin:

Thanks for the advice on the Suzuki SV 650. Its an upright position bike so it would make sense to recommend that to beginners. Also, are dirt bikes say a 250cc Honda CRF 250R good for beginners? Its kinda like the Suzuki SV 650 also in an upright position and its still pretty quick off the line if need be. Plus, it has good traction tires and good suspension since its a dirt bike. So I think even this would be more forgiving than a 600cc super sport bike.

Hmmm... "Training" on a 600cc sport bike for a beginner? What worries me is learning to balance the bike and learning to lean properly, braking properly, shifting, learning proper throttle control, etc. Plus, $12K + maybe $3K = $15K out the door price for a CBR 600 rr puts a hole on my wallet. Considering it would be a first bike for a beginner not counting insurance, gas (92 premium fuel), maintenance costs, riding gear like a proper helmet, maybe a used EVO or STi would be better after all. Like i mentioned earlier you NEVER shift from first gear and you ride really slow and stay within the speed limits of the road, don't accelerate quickly, then this MIGHT work. But a whole lot of variable factors come into play. Like if I drop the bike how in the world would I pick up a 375 lbs. bike?


@Jules. Thanks for recommending the Ninja 250. You're right in that its less power than a super sport and since it is smaller its more forgiving when you make minor mistakes from what I hear. Plus probably half the cost of other more powerful bikes.

Lastly, Yeah I admit I PROBABLY SHOULD'VE written more information on my 1st original post in that I'm aware that the bikes I listed aren't good for beginners like myself. So this kinda threw people off in that they weren't sure if I was being serious or not. Plus, much to my surprise this became an exceptionally huge thread. My intent was to see what people who ride sport bikes know about these bikes I listed and to help me decide whether to even ride a motorcycle or not. Now with more information it has helped me to better decide on purchase decisions.

 

[papadage]

A good compromise is a 500cc bike like a Ninja 500 or a GS500f. Both are a bit older, but perfectly good to buy to learn on, and can be re-sold for the same amoutn you bought them for. Either can do interstate speeds easily. Both are very linear in power delivery, with no super sport power spikes, and no big rush of low end torque that can be a bit startling to beginners.

When wound up though, both can easily accelerate past most cars. You can easily take corners and curves on roads at a brisk pace on both, so you can learn the basics of proper handling. Either will no nicely on a coach led track day as well, especially on tight tracks where top end speed doesn't matter as much as skill.

Both are also very cheap to insure, unlike any 600 cc super sport. You can probably get full coverage, including collision for under $350 per year.

I currently ride a Ninja 650, a decent all around bike. At the low end, when wound up, it can easily keep up with a 600cc super sport, until about 40mph or so, and the torque is higher at low rpm, so it's much easier to ride on the street. I've done 2,500 mile tours on it, and then removed the luggage racks to track it, and kept up easily with, and passed, amateurs on race prepped Ducatis on short straight tracks. After 12,000 miles on it, it's like an old friend to me. I've modded it for my purposes, getting the seat re-done, adding heated grips and a Power Commander, Givi luggage racks, and getting it re-sprung for a guy my size (OEM springs are for a 250# rider, and I weight 170# with gear).

I got this as a second bike, after a year on a 250. I live in a very densely populated area though, and a 250 was great, because in the city, on narrow streets, with parked cars everywhere, a slip of the throttle on a ah heck bike can easily cause a crash. If you are somewhere more open and rural, a 500 or 650cc bike may be more manageable.

 

[indy2878]

I got this as a second bike, after a year on a 250. I live in a very densely populated area though, and a 250 was great, because in the city, on narrow streets, with parked cars everywhere, a slip of the throttle on a ah heck bike can easily cause a crash. If you are somewhere more open and rural, a 500 or 650cc bike may be more manageable.

Wow, I never thought of it that way. Yes, this is an important factor to consider as well. You can't go fast on a city area because it tends to be densely populated and lots of traffic. Cities tend to be stop and go driving/riding. While on the highways the speed limit is faster and its more of a constant speed. There's also the mountain areas. Where its lots of twistys and lots of change in elevation.
That's why I had to ask about a Honda CRF 250R dirt bike....

 

[_Rick_]

By the way, bike gurus, what's the next best, cheaper alternative to an MV Agusta Brutale 675?
A friend of mine is looking at replacing his KTM Duke 390 with a new (he really wants ABS and a warranty too) one, and the Brutale is just a bit expensive. He's got a Duke 690 as an alternative, but a big onesie, I'm not so sure of that. He'd like a light bike with decent power and some mild winter usability. I think he also had an eye on the Husqvarna Nuda 900, but that's weghtwise a bit on the heavy side. Basically he'd love to get a sporty naked bike that doesn't weigh much more than 320lbs dry and has decent performance, without being something super expensive.

So, any suggestions, while we're debating bikes?

 

[rstrohkirch]

By the way, bike gurus, what's the next best, cheaper alternative to an MV Agusta Brutale 675?
A friend of mine is looking at replacing his KTM Duke 390 with a new (he really wants ABS and a warranty too) one, and the Brutale is just a bit expensive. He's got a Duke 690 as an alternative, but a big onesie, I'm not so sure of that. He'd like a light bike with decent power and some mild winter usability. I think he also had an eye on the Husqvarna Nuda 900, but that's weghtwise a bit on the heavy side. Basically he'd love to get a sporty naked bike that doesn't weigh much more than 320lbs dry and has decent performance, without being something super expensive.

So, any suggestions, while we're debating bikes?

You're not going to find what you're looking for unfortunately. The Duke 690 is about the only bike that will get you there. If you went supermoto you'd get the weight and price but not the warranty or abs.

In regards to a large single, that's the only way to ride a 4 stroke. Everything else is crap after you ride a 275lb big single with 60hp/45tq and handling that can cut lines through a super sport on the track. I'm sure you don't care about the last statement so I'll summarize and say that there is nothing wrong with a large single or the duke 690.

 

[sze5003]

Wow, I never thought of it that way. Yes, this is an important factor to consider as well. You can't go fast on a city area because it tends to be densely populated and lots of traffic. Cities tend to be stop and go driving/riding. While on the highways the speed limit is faster and its more of a constant speed. There's also the mountain areas. Where its lots of twistys and lots of change in elevation.
That's why I had to ask about a Honda CRF 250R dirt bike....

I also liked my 250 in the city here. Sharp turns were easy and any mess up you could correct. My 650 is harder to turn on street, previous owner lowered the back too so Sharp turns aren't as smooth. The throttle is very torquey and takes a while to get used to. But it has great power that is there when you want it.
I was thinking of selling it but I think I'll keep it for now. I haven't had much of a chance to ride it this season yet. My shifter lever keeps coming loose so I bought some loctite to screw it back in and have it hold.

 

[Fenixgoon]

so i took my bike out and took notice at what RPM i used when starting from a stop. i don't think i ever crossed 2000rpm.

so yes, no need to rev to 10k.

 

[DigDog]

i just noticed how many people have bikes as their avatar in this thread, and it scares me.

 

[JulesMaximus]

i just noticed how many people have bikes as their avatar in this thread, and it scares me.

Why?

 

[indy2878]

there's many things you aren't told about bikes from riders mags, but i won't go into detail just yet.

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[JulesMaximus]

the serie oro was the first run of 300, all carbon fibre and manganese wheels. i also had to pay a buyers premium. mine was n34.

i also owned (2) two 748R, a cbr 1100 xx, a gpz 900 R, svr 250, ss900, guzzi lario, and i have driven a few more.

there's many things you aren't told about bikes from riders mags, but i won't go into detail just yet. my opinion if that the cbr 600 rr or kawa 600 are the best choice for a new rider, including the fact that you "train" while riding them.

the sensible choice would be to get something like a suzuki sv 600, these are
1) cheap 2) easy to ride 3) easy to mantain and 4) easily disposable when their time is done.
however, riding one of those will never really teach you how to ride a proper sports bike, while the cbr will.

ducati bikes are so easy to ride, even a panigale would be ok for a first timer. i let my friend drive (while completely drunk) my 748r and he managed to get it around the block and not kill himself or the bike, and he's a total klutz. i guess alcohol just makes you a great beginner.

but again, i wouldn't get a bike anymore. i'd get a car.

That is such a load of crap. I'm not even going to get into the utter nonsense you spew in the next paragraph. Suffice it to say you clearly should not be doling out advice on this topic nor should anyone listen to your advice.

 

[Greenman]

That is such a load of crap. I'm not even going to get into the utter nonsense you spew in the next paragraph. Suffice it to say you clearly should not be doling out advice on this topic nor should anyone listen to your advice.

Honestly, I think a 600 would be a good starter bike if you could put a throttle stop on it, and maybe a small air bubble in the brake line.

 

[sze5003]

Honestly, I think a 600 would be a good starter bike if you could put a throttle stop on it, and maybe a small air bubble in the brake line.

600 has a bit too much power. If you can mod the tps to decrease the powerband and make it less aggressive then maybe. I just think starting on a small bike is the best since there is a lot you need be aware of when you start out.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Honestly, I think a 600 would be a good starter bike if you could put a throttle stop on it, and maybe a small air bubble in the brake line.

I've ridden them. If he honestly thinks you can learn faster on a 600cc supersport vs a smaller lighter bike or that you somehow need a supersport to learn how to ride supersports he's nuts. I've ridden supersports and despite never actually owning one I can actually ride them and pretty well too.

 

[sze5003]

I've ridden them. If he honestly thinks you can learn faster on a 600cc supersport vs a smaller lighter bike or that you somehow need a supersport to learn how to ride supersports he's nuts. I've ridden supersports and despite never actually owning one I can actually ride them and pretty well too.

I usually trade my buddy my sv for his cbr600 when we go on rides. I don't like the seating position since I'm tall and my legs feel cramped. I can ride it fine and most times it's easier to control than my sv since of the powerband but I'm glad I started on a 250.

 

[Fenixgoon]

a ninja250 vs. a cbr600 is like a mazda miata vs. a ferrari 458.

a new rider/driver is not going to know how to properly control and handle the latter, while the former, despite its lack of power, is significantly more forgiving and will teach you to be a good rider/driver first.

you know why people in mazda miata's can outlap ferraris? it isn't because their car has more power. it's because they are better drivers.

a poor rider on the best bike will ALWAYS be slow at the end of the day, while a great rider on a slow bike can still turn fast times.

 

[indy2878]

3 Questions?

1.) I wore an ARAI brand full face helmet before and notice you have an almost distorted view of things compared to when people usually don't wear a helmet. Its like as if you're looking at a huge "wide view peep hole" almost. Wouldn't a full face helmet be a factor in seeing properly on the road? So what's a good helmet you can recommend?

2.) Are windshields on bikes useful? Do they distort the view for a rider? Some 600cc super sports I notice have tiny ones (I guess for aerodynamic and styling purposes?) while some other non sport bikes have huge versions.

3.) I read for 600cc bikes you can shave the seat and as a last resort lower the bike somehow if you're a smaller rider. How would this affect ride handling?


I personally think another way to know if a bike is good for you or not is to simply go and sit on as much motorcycles as possible without even riding it and see what feels the most comfortable. Especially for beginners I would think something like the instrument cluster layout of a bike is important as well. If you don't feel comfortable and can't comprehend the instrument panel numbers like the speedometer tachometer then what's the use of purchasing that particular bike?


Yes, I tend to think of some of the small things for riding a motorcycle. But these small things I'm willing to bet add up and are important factors to take into consideration especially for beginners. Just my thoughts...

 

[DigDog]

Why?

because of this

That is such a load of crap. I'm not even going to get into the utter nonsense you spew in the next paragraph. Suffice it to say you clearly should not be doling out advice on this topic nor should anyone listen to your advice.

gearheads live in their own world and think of everyone else as a gearhead. they don't understand people *not* understanding.

for example; many high powered sports bikes have a 4 inline, which sits below your knees; this gives the bike specific weight balance, and determines how fast the bike inclines. a twin which sits at your knee and basically between your buttcheeks doesnt have the same tendency to fall as fast as a 4 does.

thats not really disputable. you can't argue that an engine is somewhere it isn't, or that gravity works in a different way than it does.
but apparently some people think that treating bikes like an object and not something with a soul is blasphemy.

ducati bikes are easy to ride; they have lots of torque at the bottom and they don't tend to kick so much at the last 1k revs. most japs instead will rip your arms off at the top; the amount of effort you need to incline a bike that's at the top is also different between a straight power curve and a bell curve like ducati have. they also are anemic at bottom revs and can easily fall when going too slow.

also; the sv is a tall, soft bike. it has NONE of the characteristics of a jap, and it has nowhere near the stiffness in the shocks as any racing bike would have; you would learn nothing of riding if not the rules of teh road, which you might as well learn from riding a 125.

actually, if one ants to learn to ride, a proper racing 125 or 250 would be far better, but for someone who wants a commuter bike, the sv is far superior - cheaper, economical, and easier.

and more;
the whole thing of "things you aren't told" is that first and foremost, its not the bike which will kill you, but uneven roads, other drivers and other "not supposed to be there" hazards.

you are also not told how any minor incident on a bike (which, in a car, would be but a scratch on the paintwork) is a trip to the emergency room or a new set of clothes, not to mention the smashed carbon-fibre bodywork, handles, mirrors, pedals, etc.

Y.a.n.t. : how easy it is to have your bike stolen
y.a.n.t. how harsh is to deal with the weather and how you are *always* in your leathers and helmet, which you live with.
y.a.n.t. that riding anything which doesn't have a fairing like a busa or bigger means any highway travel will be done lying on the gas tank (or the wind will rip your head off)
y.a.n.t. essentially what a massive ripoff any bike with more than 50hp is; they look awesome, but they are 1% practical use and 99% e-peen. you are better off with a moped for city transport, and with a car for anything long distance. anything between these two and a commuter bike - like an EN5, SV650, or anything in the 400~500cc range is MUCH better than a racing bike, stiff racing shocks suck for normal life, straight power curves suck for normal life, racing geometries suck for normal life, etc ..

etc.

etc..

answers for the post above:
1) helmets make no sense (at first)at normal speed (i.e 30mph) but when you get going, they become essential.
2) if i were to EVER ride a bike again, i would go for the biggest, most protective fairing there is; i wouldn't consider anything less than a sports tourer. highway travel w/o a proper windshield is a nightmare.
3)i doubt you are that small. most bikes (japanese ones in primis) tend to be smaller than what an average sized person is comfortable with. but, if you really are a midget, yes, you can get a shaved seat and raised pegs. my buddy the sushi chef rode my MV and he was about 5 feet, had to do s running hop to ride, but never had problems fitting *on* the bike.