Which sportbike is good?

[indy2878]

Yeah, that's the modern one, much like the Ninja 300, which is probably a better bike right now.

The CBR250RR is a cut down super sport with an inline 4. It was sold in japan and Australia only, and has a cult following for a good reason.

The one I am waiting for is the KTM RC390. A single cylinder 390cc, 43HP, torquey little beast with inverted forks, proper brakes, and a 50lb weight drop below the Ninja 300. THAT will be the premier light track bike.

And with all the torque, it should be practical for the street. One of the issues with super sports is that they have very little torque down low, so they have to be wound up to ride normally. It's cool at first, but once you decide to do a LOT of riding, it gets old, fast. That's another reason I like my Nija 650. Same torque as a ZX6-R or CBR600RR, but at a much lower rpm range.

[EDIT: You mentioned the RC390 is single cylinder and 399cc which IS a lot of torque because its a single. Plus, the 399cc adds to this as well. You also mentioned its 50 lbs. < than the Ninja 300 bike. And since it has "RC" in its name its kinda like the RC8.]

How will the riding position be like for the KTM RC390? Is it like the RC8?
Is it good for beginners like the other 250's like the Ninja 250 and CBR 250?


I apologize for mentioning the 1992 CBR 250RR. I just had to ask because its a 250cc engine, but I guess because its redline is around 18,000 to 20,000 rpm or so and has a sportbike hunched over position I agree its not a beginner bike.

 

[papadage]

The RC390 will have a sport riding position. But that's not much of a problem unless you are going to be riding long distances. The big issue with super sports is their immediacy.

If I twist the throttle of a Ninja 250 too much, it kinda says "are you sure?" before taking off,

My 650 will respond faster, but at least the response is linear and predictable. It can't really power wheelie.

On a super sport, if you give it too much throttle.. it'll respond immediately.. and if it's past a certain threshold it'll wheelie and dump you... or slide out in in a turn if you push it past traction.. and then maybe flip if the tires hook up again.

Similar with the brakes. A super sport can actually swap ends, or even flip from too much braking.

These are bikes that are high strung, purposefully tippy and unstable, and on a raw edge of performance. They are race bikes with lights and mirrors. A 900cc cruiser is much more tame and easy to ride. It has very little to do with seating position as much as the inability to take back a command you give them before it fucks your world up.

Aside from that, I find them very uninteresting on the road. A CBR600RR can do 90 in second gear. You can ride all day in second. A less powerful bike is more fun to ride on the street, since you can push it harder. That is why the Miata is a track favorite, good handling and low HP mean you have to wring it out to get good lap times. Same with less powerful bikes on the track. Every serious track ride I know LOVES little bikes for their razor sharp handling, and the hard work you need to do to pass with them. The best rider I know can easily pass a 600cc bike on a NInja 300.

 

[indy2878]

I heard on say a 600cc super sport bike the rider tires out easier than say someone on a ninja 250 because the bike is heavier? (don't know if this is true...) Plus, its faster so when you arrive in a corner you have to slow down and anticipate much more quickly than a smaller and lighter 250cc bike who can enter and exit the corner at a much even pace. Also, a 600cc super sport is faster all around so you're forced to anticipate and think MUCH more quickly on your feet than a less aggressive bike.

Question? If a 600cc super sport can go 90MPH on 2nd gear is this even good for the engine reliability of the bike? The idea is its running on much shorter gear than say a longer gear say 4th to 5th gears. Its kinda like the bike is on "racing mode" in terms of being in 2nd gear.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I heard on say a 600cc super sport bike the rider tires out easier than say someone on a ninja 250 because the bike is heavier? (don't know if this is true...) Plus, its faster so when you arrive in a corner you have to slow down and anticipate much more quickly than a smaller and lighter 250cc bike who can enter and exit the corner at a much even pace. Also, a 600cc super sport is faster all around so you're forced to anticipate and think MUCH more quickly on your feet than a less aggressive bike.

Question? If a 600cc super sport can go 90MPH on 2nd gear is this even good for the engine reliability of the bike? The idea is its running on much shorter gear than say a longer gear say 4th to 5th gears. Its kinda like the bike is on "racing mode" in terms of being in 2nd gear.

It is only as fast as you ride it.

The problem with these bikes is they are intoxicatingly fast and it is very easy to overestimate your ability and when you do that on a bike like this, or any bike for that matter, you are a recipe for disaster. Edit-FTR I don't think that this is a problem per se with the bikes as much as it is a problem with rider training and licensing. The bikes are excellent.

The engines are made to rev high and the power delivery is fairly linear building all the way up to redline. As long as you aren't starting it up cold and running it up to redline and assuming you maintain the bike according to the manufacturers specs you shouldn't have any major problems with it for at least the first 50k miles.

Racing, stunting and general stupidity is the bane of most bikes. Racing takes it's toll on a bike because it is operating near its limits all the time, stunting is basically making the motorcycle do things it was never designed to do and stupidity usually results in crashes and none of this is ever good for a bike in the long term.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The RC390 will have a sport riding position. But that's not much of a problem unless you are going to be riding long distances. The big issue with super sports is their immediacy.

If I twist the throttle of a Ninja 250 too much, it kinda says "are you sure?" before taking off,

My 650 will respond faster, but at least the response is linear and predictable. It can't really power wheelie.

On a super sport, if you give it too much throttle.. it'll respond immediately.. and if it's past a certain threshold it'll wheelie and dump you... or slide out in in a turn if you push it past traction.. and then maybe flip if the tires hook up again.

Similar with the brakes. A super sport can actually swap ends, or even flip from too much braking.

These are bikes that are high strung, purposefully tippy and unstable, and on a raw edge of performance. They are race bikes with lights and mirrors. A 900cc cruiser is much more tame and easy to ride. It has very little to do with seating position as much as the inability to take back a command you give them before it fucks your world up.

This

Aside from that, I find them very uninteresting on the road. A CBR600RR can do 90 in second gear. You can ride all day in second. A less powerful bike is more fun to ride on the street, since you can push it harder. That is why the Miata is a track favorite, good handling and low HP mean you have to wring it out to get good lap times. Same with less powerful bikes on the track. Every serious track ride I know LOVES little bikes for their razor sharp handling, and the hard work you need to do to pass with them. The best rider I know can easily pass a 600cc bike on a NInja 300.

I would guess that at least 50% (probably more than that actually-I'm being generous) of the people you see riding 600cc sportbikes have NEVER taken them to the track and can't come anywhere near the limits of these bikes.

 

[papadage]

The average super sport rider puts maybe 1,500 miles a year on his bike. I am going to do more than that in a week long trip in June.

I heard on say a 600cc super sport bike the rider tires out easier than say someone on a ninja 250 because the bike is heavier? (don't know if this is true...) Plus, its faster so when you arrive in a corner you have to slow down and anticipate much more quickly than a smaller and lighter 250cc bike who can enter and exit the corner at a much even pace. Also, a 600cc super sport is faster all around so you're forced to anticipate and think MUCH more quickly on your feet than a less aggressive bike.

Question? If a 600cc super sport can go 90MPH on 2nd gear is this even good for the engine reliability of the bike? The idea is its running on much shorter gear than say a longer gear say 4th to 5th gears. Its kinda like the bike is on "racing mode" in terms of being in 2nd gear.

Speed is not the problem, twitchiness is. A quarter turn on a super sport throttle can result in an instant addition of 6,000 rpm. A handfull of brakes can spill you instantly. Like all race machines, they are made to rev fast and brake hard, a bad thing for anyone who has not gotten the controls down in regular riding, let alone fast riding where you had better be looking through a turn and hanging off the bike some to maintain lean angle. I laugh when I see kids trying to scrape pegs or knees at regular street speeds. The bike can take those turns at triple those speeds before it needs to lean so much.

 

[Greenman]

This



I would guess that at least 50% (probably more than that actually-I'm being generous) of the people you see riding 600cc sportbikes have NEVER taken them to the track and can't come anywhere near the limits of these bikes.

Based on what I've seen around here, I'd say it's closer to 99%.

 

[indy2878]

Speed is not the problem, twitchiness is. A quarter turn on a super sport throttle can result in an instant addition of 6,000 rpm. A handfull of brakes can spill you instantly. Like all race machines, they are made to rev fast and brake hard, a bad thing for anyone who has not gotten the controls down in regular riding,

Is there a way of some sort to regulate the throttle? Like modding the ecu and other electronics. Someone mentioned a throttle stop. Of course, If I had to do something like this and there is a way to do this I would definitely have a professional tuner do this for me. Then "unregulate" the throttle response once you're more comfortable and confident to take on more twitch ness. I think Ducati has such an electronic program for this on their latest bikes. Its like "street", "wet" and "sport"....

 

[papadage]

Some bikes have throttle by wire, so they can have multiple throttle response maps that can be switched on the fly. That still doesn't help with the brakes and the fact that race bikes are built to tip in quickly into turns.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Based on what I've seen around here, I'd say it's closer to 99%.

Like I said, I was being generous... very very very generous.

I guess if you're going to pull numbers straight out of your ass it's best to go with the extremes. If statistics has taught me anything... and clearly it hasn't, it is that. :biggrin:

 

[JulesMaximus]

Is there a way of some sort to regulate the throttle? Like modding the ecu and other electronics. Someone mentioned a throttle stop. Of course, If I had to do something like this and there is a way to do this I would definitely have a professional tuner do this for me. Then "unregulate" the throttle response once you're more comfortable and confident to take on more twitch ness. I think Ducati has such an electronic program for this on their latest bikes. Its like "street", "wet" and "sport"....

Maybe you should just go take the MSF. Or is this some kind of marketing study?

 

[indy2878]

Maybe you should just go take the MSF. Or is this some kind of marketing study?

I've been asking questions to help me decide whether to even get into motorcycles or stick to cars. I agree with you about taking the MSF class if I'm really interested in riding. Especially since the BEST way to know about motorcycles is to *tada* ride one in an MSF class. Out of curiosity.... What made you think this is some type of marketing study?

 

[sze5003]

I've been asking questions to help me decide whether to even get into motorcycles or stick to cars. I agree with you about taking the MSF class if I'm really interested in riding. Especially since the BEST way to know about motorcycles is to *tada* ride one in an MSF class. Out of curiosity.... What made you think this is some type of marketing study?

Take the msf. You will see what a 250 feels like. Then go buy one for yourself if you feel you want to learn to ride properly.

 

[indy2878]

Take the msf. You will see what a 250 feels like. Then go buy one for yourself if you feel you want to learn to ride properly.

I've analyzed all the posts on this thread and will be
sticking to my plan on starting off (even in the msf course) with a scooter to be honest. It uses automatic transmission so I don't have to worry about clutch and shifting stuff. The upright riding position ergo seems good for a beginner and I guess the throttle is tamer as well. Its also cheaper than a sport bike or even a ninja 250cc class bikes. So its probably cheaper on insurance as well. (am not sure though...)
It also tops out at 59mph for a 150cc for a Vespa model according to the website. And I have no plans on take it on the freeway so most of my riding will be in the city limits. Also, I'm interested in just being used to riding something on 2 wheels with a motor in open air around me versus a car where you have a roof, windows, etc. blocking the wind and outside noise while you drive.

And I think a scooter will do the job in hopefully a safe way.

 

[_Rick_]

For me it's always tough to defend the scooter, because you're just as quick on a bicycle, unless there's an incline, where downhill the bicycle will be faster, and uphill it'll be much slower.
Still, in town, there's not much between them. Out of town, a scooter is pretty much worthless.
Get a used Miata, put in a rollbar, delete the windshield, and there you have your safe, open-air motoring experience :awe:
Seriously, a small convertible might be more up your alley, because those can still be fun, much as a real motorcycle, while being quite safe, and more comfortable and convenient than a scooter, which doesn't edge out a bicycle in city traffic.

 

[papadage]

No scooter if you want to learn to ride a motorcycle. They have almost nothing in common. If you want to learn to ride a motorcycle, you get a motorcycle.

This short video sums up why I enjoy riding.. minus the dirt..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dytQvJefFW0

 

[jaha2000]

I am still have the mindset that people should learn in the dirt. You learn far more brake, throttle, clutch and bike control skills than you can on the street.

 

[papadage]

Except for one thing.. cornering in the dirt is very different than in the street. And many of us live in cities, with no dirt riding anywhere nearby.

 

[sze5003]

I agree that if you want to ride a motorcycle you should get a motorcycle not a scooter. They have a separate easier course for scooters also available via the msf. You will have a much easier time trying to sell a ninja 250 than you would selling a scooter, not sure where you live but no one in my area is buying scooters lately. I usually keep an eye on craigslist this time of year to get an idea of prices.

 

[papadage]

You can buy a pre-dropped 2008 to 2009 Ninja 250 for about $2,200 or so, and sell it for the same thing after a riding season. Buy in the winter, ride for a year, and sell it when you pick out your next bike.

 

[z1ggy]

How the shit is this thread still going?

Take MSF course. Pass MSF. Go buy bike with something like 300-500cc engine. Ride for 1 year. If you made it out alive, sell bike and buy new, more powerful bike. Enjoy.

/Thread.

 

[pauldun170]

How the shit is this thread still going?

Take MSF course. Pass MSF. Go buy bike with something like 300-500cc engine. Ride for 1 year. If you made it out alive, sell bike and buy new, more powerful bike. Enjoy.

/Thread.

The nice thing about your posts is that I get to see my bike

 

[JulesMaximus]

I've been asking questions to help me decide whether to even get into motorcycles or stick to cars. I agree with you about taking the MSF class if I'm really interested in riding. Especially since the BEST way to know about motorcycles is to *tada* ride one in an MSF class. Out of curiosity.... What made you think this is some type of marketing study?

Because you're all over the place. One minute you're asking about motorcycles and the next you're talking about Subarus and then back to the motorcycle questions.

If you are really serious about riding then go sign up for and take the MSF course. Then start thinking about what kind of bike you want to get.

 

[sze5003]

I knew I always wanted to try the msf course to see if I could succeed at riding a bike and get my license. It wasn't until I finished that I decided I can get a bike. You shouldn't be looking into bikes before you take this course. Some people took the class and found out it wasn't what they were expecting or they didn't want to do it after, etc.

I don't know if this was said earlier in the thread but it's true. 2 people from my class didn't come back after the first training day. Another didn't follow directions and ended up in a hospital with a messed up shoulder and broken finger.

 

[papadage]

Two guys washed out of the class I took. One was too nervous, and stalled constantly. The other dropped the bike multiple times.

I had not even ridden a bicycle in 25 years when I took it. I barely made the circle they have all the attendees do on a the bicycle. But, I made it through, and a few years later, I'm probably an above average rider.

Take the class. You may fall in love with it, or say "meh" and walk away.