Which would you buy? Win 7 or Win 8.1?

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flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
""
P.S. No matter what the story is the Touch/Tile interface is the future and it is Not going away
""

With all due respect, even after I now got to like Win8.1 (minus some quirks)..touch/tiles is the most appalling POS ever to come in front of my eyes.

If you think that a random arrangement of "tiles" consisting of a random collection of "apps" such as calendar, "apps", settings, the weather report etc. is "the future"..then good night...

I could as well post a screen-shot of my cluttered and hideously chaotic desktop where I have my icons in semi-random fashion "vomited upon my desktop"...and say "this is the future".
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
I could as well post a screen-shot of my cluttered and hideously chaotic desktop where I have my icons in semi-random fashion "vomited upon my desktop"...and say "this is the future".

Possibly the best analogy ever. Besides the lack of a start menu, the difference between a Windows 95 user whose organization method is "everything is on the desktop" and a Windows 8 user is the Win8 user just pushes the windows key, while the windows 95 user has to hit windows-D to show/hide all the windows on top of their desktop. And since the desktop icons are smaller than tiles, the Win95 user has more apps on their "start screen".
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,758
2,137
146
^^^Shits complicated man. Win95, 98, Xp, and 7 was so much better. I wonder how anyone can figure out this new OS. I just trip over myself every time I try to use it. Keyboard shortcuts, right clicks, swiping corners....who has time to learn all that.
 

Berryracer

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2006
2,779
1
81
^^^Shits complicated man. Win95, 98, Xp, and 7 was so much better. I wonder how anyone can figure out this new OS. I just trip over myself every time I try to use it. Keyboard shortcuts, right clicks, swiping corners....who has time to learn all that.

QFT
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81


Complete BS,if you can't figure out how to use Win8 and you don't need to use any Keyboard shortcuts(I don't even without any third party Start button mods) then stick to a console and get PC trained,its not rocket science FFS,how would you guys handle DOS in the old days when you had to use your brain,now you are all spoon fed on modern Windows and still complain ,sad times indeed,just too much pure FUD going around by users that don't have a clue.


I'll book my front seat for Win9 now and see the same moaners queuing up .
 

ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Complete BS,if you can't figure out how to use Win8 and you don't need to use any Keyboard shortcuts(I don't even without any third party Start button mods) then stick to a console and get PC trained,its not rocket science FFS,how would you guys handle DOS in the old days when you had to use your brain,now you are all spoon fed on modern Windows and still complain ,sad times indeed,just too much pure FUD going around by users that don't have a clue.


I'll book my front seat for Win9 now and see the same moaners queuing up .

Yep.

I can fully understand not liking Windows 8 as much as Windows 7 simply because there are valid reasons to prefer a more traditional desktop model. At the same time, saying Windows 8 is complicated is just silly. Spend a couple of hours and figure it out. I don't use any keyboard shortcuts and got rid of any Start Menu add-ons and made myself learn how to use Win 8. It took all of an hour or two. It is NOT complicated, just different.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Yep.

I can fully understand not liking Windows 8 as much as Windows 7 simply because there are valid reasons to prefer a more traditional desktop model. At the same time, saying Windows 8 is complicated is just silly. Spend a couple of hours and figure it out. I don't use any keyboard shortcuts and got rid of any Start Menu add-ons and made myself learn how to use Win 8. It took all of an hour or two. It is NOT complicated, just different.


Disliking something is one thing but when I hear its complicated or can't figure this out I wonder have some users got dumber in modern times or just being very lazy even when a modern Windows OS does most of the work for them,especially when 8.1 has made things even easier then Win8.

Maybe I should go in a corner and cry lol,oh well I hope they are ready for Win9,10,11 etc if not they better get some valium pills ready .
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Possibly the best analogy ever. Besides the lack of a start menu, the difference between a Windows 95 user whose organization method is "everything is on the desktop" and a Windows 8 user is the Win8 user just pushes the windows key, while the windows 95 user has to hit windows-D to show/hide all the windows on top of their desktop. And since the desktop icons are smaller than tiles, the Win95 user has more apps on their "start screen".

You can't blame windows if people can't seem to store files in proper folders.
 

PliotronX

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
8,883
107
106
Possibly the best analogy ever. Besides the lack of a start menu, the difference between a Windows 95 user whose organization method is "everything is on the desktop" and a Windows 8 user is the Win8 user just pushes the windows key, while the windows 95 user has to hit windows-D to show/hide all the windows on top of their desktop. And since the desktop icons are smaller than tiles, the Win95 user has more apps on their "start screen".
 

ninaholic37

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2012
1,883
31
91
Complete BS,if you can't figure out how to use Win8 and you don't need to use any Keyboard shortcuts(I don't even without any third party Start button mods) then stick to a console and get PC trained,its not rocket science FFS,how would you guys handle DOS in the old days when you had to use your brain,now you are all spoon fed on modern Windows and still complain ,sad times indeed,just too much pure FUD going around by users that don't have a clue.
Dos was easier to navigate than Windows 8. All you really needed to know was "cd\" and "dir" to find everything. I'd be happy if they replaced the Modern UI with command prompt personally.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Dos was easier to navigate than Windows 8. All you really needed to know was "cd\" and "dir" to find everything. I'd be happy if they replaced the Modern UI with command prompt personally.


A bit more then that .


A summary of the HELP supplied by DOS 6.22

APPEND Allows programs to open data files in specified directories as if they were in the current directory. ATTRIB Displays or changes file attributes. BREAK Sets or clears extended CTRL+C checking. CD Displays the name of or changes the current directory. CHCP Displays or sets the active code page number. (@) CHDIR Displays the name of or changes the current directory. (obsolete command, see CD) CHKDSK Checks a disk and displays a status report. CHOICE Prompts the user to make a choice in a batch program. CLS Clears the screen. COMMAND Starts a new instance of the MS-DOS command interpreter. COMP Compares the contents of two files or sets of files. (@) COPY Copies one or more files to another location. CTTY Changes the terminal device used to control your system. (@) DATE Displays or sets the date. DBLSPACE Creates and manages drives compressed by using DoubleSpace. (@) DEBUG Starts Debug, a program testing and editing tool. DEFRAG Reorganizes the files on a disk to optimize the disk. (@) DEL Deletes one or more files. DELOLDOS Deletes the OLD_DOS.1 directory and the files it contains. (@) DELTREE Deletes a directory and all the files and subdirectories in it. DIR Displays a list of files and subdirectories in a directory. DISKCOMP Compares the contents of two floppy disks. (@) DISKCOPY Copies the contents of one floppy disk to another. DOSKEY Edits command lines, recalls MS-DOS commands, and creates macros. DOSSHELL Starts MS-DOS Shell. DRVSPACE Creates and manages drives compressed by using DriveSpace. (@) ECHO Displays messages, or turns command echoing on or off. EDIT Starts MS-DOS Editor, which creates and changes ASCII files. EMM386 Enables or disables EMM386 expanded memory support. (@) ERASE Deletes one or more files. (obsolete command, see DEL) (@) EXIT Quits the COMMAND.COM program (command interpreter). EXPAND Decompresses one or more compressed files. (@) FASTHELP Provides summary Help information for MS-DOS commands. (@) FASTOPEN Decreases the amount of time needed to open frequently used files and directories. (@) FC Compares two files or sets of files, and displays the differences between them. (@) FDISK Configures a hard disk for use with MS-DOS. FIND Searches for a text string in a file or files. FOR Runs a specified command for each file in a set of files. FORMAT Formats a disk for use with MS-DOS. GRAPHICS Loads a program that can print graphics. (@) HELP Provides complete, interactive Help information for MS-DOS commands. (@) INTERLNK Connects two computers via parallel or serial ports. (@) INTERSVR Starts the Interlnk server. (@) KEYB Configures a keyboard for a specific language. (@) LABEL Creates, changes, or deletes the volume label of a disk. LH Loads a program into the upper memory area. (@) LOADFIX Loads a program above the first 64K of memory, and runs the program. (@) LOADHIGH Loads a program into the upper memory area. (@) MD Creates a directory. MEM Displays the amount of used and free memory in your system. MEMMAKER Starts the Memmaker program, which optimizes your computer's memory. (@) MKDIR Creates a directory. (obsolete command, see MD) MODE Configures a system device. MORE Displays output one screen at a time. MOVE Moves one or more files. Also renames files and directories. MSAV Scans your computer for known viruses. (@) MSBACKUP Backs up or restores one or more files from one disk to another. (@) MSD Provides detailed technical information about your computer. (@) NLSFUNC Loads country-specific information. PATH Displays or sets a search path for executable files. PAUSE Suspends processing of a batch file and displays a message. POWER Turns power management on and off. PRINT Prints a text file while you are using other MS-DOS commands. PROMPT Changes the MS-DOS command prompt. QBASIC Starts the MS-DOS QBasic programming environment. (@) RD Removes a directory. REN Renames a file or files. RENAME Renames a file or files. (obsolete command, see REN) REPLACE Replaces files. (@) RESTORE Restores files that were backed up by using the BACKUP command. (@) RMDIR Removes a directory. (obsolete command, see RD) SCANDISK Checks a drive for errors and repairs any problems it finds. SET Displays, sets, or removes MS-DOS environment variables. SETVER Sets the version number that MS-DOS reports to a program. SHARE Installs file-sharing and locking capabilities on your hard disk. SORT Sorts input. SUBST Associates a path with a drive letter. SYS Copies MS-DOS system files and command interpreter to a disk you specify. TIME Displays or sets the system time. TREE Graphically displays the directory structure of a drive or path. (@) TYPE Displays the contents of a text file. UNDELETE Restores files previously deleted with the DEL command. (@) UNFORMAT Restores a disk erased by the FORMAT command. (@) VER Displays the MS-DOS version. VERIFY Directs MS-DOS to verify that your files are written correctly to a disk. (@) VOL Displays a disk volume label and serial number. VSAFE Continuously monitors your computer for viruses. (@) XCOPY Copies files (except hidden and system files) and directory trees.


Not forgetting,

An introduction to the DOS Operating System

The heart of the DOS operating system are the three SYSTEM files that make up the DOS itself. These three files are called IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS and COMMAND.COM. The two files with the .SYS extension are made HIDDEN and READ ONLY so they cant be deleted from the disk. These two files provide the various routines that form the basics of the DOS Operating System. The third file is the Command Interpreter and it processes the user commands and directs operations. The COMMAND.COM file is not hidden or made read only. When the DOS computer is BOOTED, these three system files are loaded into the computers RAM memory. The COMMAND.COM file is loaded in two parts and the TRANSIENT portion of this file is usually flushed from memory, when an application is loaded, and reloaded when the application is terminated. This is done to make more memory space available for applications.
DOS has two types of commands


  • INTERNAL commands
    The code for internal commands is loaded into the computers RAM memory as part of the operating system at boot up and these commands are available at all times. Some examples of DOS Internal commands are, copy, dir, del, md, cd, rd, type, time, date, cls, ver.
  • EXTERNAL commands
    The code for these is kept as files on the boot disk and must be loaded into RAM Memory when required. When an external command is finished with, DOS flushes it from the memory to make more room for other commands or applications. When we load DOS onto a computers hard disk from a set of DOS installation disks, the install routine puts the external command files into the DOS subdirectory and they are made available to the user, via the DOS Path statement in the Autoexec.bat file. Some examples of DOS External commands are, format, diskcopy, diskcomp, xcopy, help, edit, sys, chkdsk, scandisk, fdisk.
A summary of the HELP for DOS 6.22 commands with the commands not available in Windows 95 DOS indicated.

Other DOS Files

When you look at the boot disk of DOS computer you will see several types for DOS files.
  • Firstly there are the three system files mentioned above. These three files must be in the root directory of the boot disk. A directory listing will not display the two hidden files, only the Command processor file.
  • DOS also requires the External command files and these will usually be found in the DOS sub directory on the boot disk. These files will have a file name the same as the command name and a file extension of either .COM or .EXE
  • There will also be Device Driver files and these will have file extensions of .COM .EXE or .SYS. Device driver files supplied by DOS will usually be in the DOS sub directory but device driver files will often be suppled by hardware vendors and these will usually be put into a sub directory related to the product they support. A good example of this is the device drivers required to support sound cards and CDROM drives.
  • There are the various DOS support files and these will be found in the DOS sub directory. These files provide support for national characteristics such as keyboard differences and character sets, and for various display types etc.
  • Lastly there are the optional configuration files, the CONFIG.SYS and the AUTOEXEC.BAT files and these will be in the root directory of the boot disk.
Configuring DOS

When DOS loads, it allocates memory for work space and for configuration settings. The DOS configuration information helps it work with files (how many are open and can be opened), work with disk drives (buffering disk data, how many drives are available, file search path), work with hardware devices (through device drivers), and work with the Video system and Keyboard. DOS is configured by two Optional files it looks for on the boot disk at start-up. These files are called CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. The CONFIG.SYS file After loading the DOS system files, the computer reads from a file called CONFIG.SYS, and automatically executes the statements in the file. CONFIG.SYS is used to define important DOS environment settings, and to change the settings from the DOS default values. Some of the most common CONFIG.SYS statements are:

  • FILES = (the number of files, DOS can have open)
  • BUFFERS = (memory to use for temporary data storage)
  • DEVICE = (install a device driver)
Device Drivers
Device drivers are loaded from the CONFIG.SYS file and remain in memory and act as custom extensions to DOS, performing functions such as changing the keyboard's characteristics or establishing basic communication with a local area network. Device drivers are often provided as a part of certain hardware or software products. Device drivers provide support for devices that are not supported by DOS. The most common examples of device drivers today are the files that provide DOS with support for Sound Interface cards and CD-ROM Drives. These device driver files are supplied by the manufacturer of the particular hardware in use.
The AUTOEXEC.BAT
After DOS is loaded, the computer looks for an optional file called AUTOEXEC.BAT. This file contains a series of DOS commands and these are automatically executed after DOS is loaded. Some typical functions carried out by this file are -

  • Set the system prompt (e.g. C:\>)
  • Set-up a search path for DOS to use when looking for programs
  • Load the support file for the Mouse device.
The AUTOEXEC.BAT is also used to run programs on start up that may be required to perform some tasks on start-up. The old XT type computers usually had a "Real Time Clock on the I/O card and the time and date from this clock had to be transferred to the computers system clock on start-up. A clock program was usually run from the AUTOEXEC.BAT file to achieve this. The AUTOEXEC.BAT file can also be used to load Terminate and Stay Resident programs that may provide the user with some special facilities as a background task to the applications they may use. An application program can be started from the AUTOEXEC.BAT file and the user may never need to see the DOS prompt.
Support for the Mouse Device
In the early days of DOS, the mouse was supported by a Device Drives (a .SYS file) loaded from the Config.sys file but today it is usual to provide Mouse support with a .COM file loaded from the Autoexec.bat file. Some device drivers files are .EXE or .COM files and these are usually loaded from the Autoexec.bat file instead of the Config.sys file.
Booting the DOS Computer

The processes of booting a computer involves loading the operating system into the computers RAM memory. When you turn on a PC Computer it runs a series of routines that are located in the BIOS ROM and these routines perform the following functions.
  • Test hardware.
  • Identify the computers configuration and record details of the configuration in an area of memory.
  • Setup programmable I/O devices and configure the areas of RAM that DOS uses for itself.
  • Load an operating system from a boot disk.
These processes will be covered in more detail in a chapter on the POST routines.
The last of the above processes involves looking for an operating system on a boot disk. Traditionally the computer will look at the first floppy disk drive (drive A first and if it does not find an operating system on a disk in this drive it will look at the first hard drive (drive C for an operating system. Over the years the boot routines in the BIOS ROM that start the computer up have been changed and now most modern DOS computers give the user a BIOS setup option of bypassing the initial search for an operating system on drive A:.
The "Boot Strap Loader" routine that loads DOS into memory is looking for a disk with the three DOS System files on it, IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS and COMMAND.COM.
The boot strap loader routine in the BIOS ROM does not actually load DOS itself, it loads a boot strap loader from the Boot Sector on the boot disk and this second boot strap loader loads the operating system. This is done to make the DOS hardware more universal by allowing for operating systems other than DOS to be loaded.
Another interesting point to note is that all disks have a Boot Sector, not only System Disks. If you try to boot a DOS computer from a non-system disk (a disk that has been formatted without the three DOS system files) you will get an error message about the disk being a non-system disk. This error message is coming from the boot strap loader contained in the boot sector of the disk. The boot strap loader in the BIOS ROM has loaded the boot sector from the disk, and the boot strap loader loaded into RAM from the boot sector, then looks for the three DOS system files on this disk.
Making a System Disk (boot disk)

Before a Floppy Disk can be used on any computer system it must be TESTED for SURFACE DEFECTS and its DOS infrastructure must be setup. The surface of a floppy disk is divided into Tracks, Sides and Sectors and some of the sectors are assigned to providing support for the data that is to be stored on the disk. The process of preparing a disk for use is called FORMATTING. The Format process is provided by the DOS External Command, Format and we have some options available when formatting a disk.

  • Format the disk as a Data Disk without the three DOS system files. this will provide a disk with maximum disk space available.
    Examples: FORMAT A: or FORMAT A: /U
  • Format the disk as a System Disk. This means the format command will transfer the three DOS system file to the disk. This will produce a Boot disk that can be used to boot a PC computer.
    Examples: FORMAT A: /S or FORMAT A: /S /U
The only other way the SYSTEM FILES can be out onto a disk is to use the DOS External Command, SYS.
Examples: SYS A: or SYS C:
This command will copy the three system files to a disk if there is room for them on that disk.
When we produce a System disk, FORMAT or SYS, only puts the three system files onto the disk, it does not put any of the DOS external command files, device drivers or support files on it.
When we load the latest versions of DOS onto the hard disk drive in a modern DOS computer, the original DOS disks provide automated routines for formatting the boot disk, transferring the DOS system files, setting up a DOS sub directory containing the external command files, the device drivers and the support files, and creating simple Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files.
 
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ControlD

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2005
5,440
44
91
Dos was easier to navigate than Windows 8. All you really needed to know was "cd\" and "dir" to find everything. I'd be happy if they replaced the Modern UI with command prompt personally.

The command prompt is still there ....
 

red_222

Member
Oct 28, 2013
46
0
0
I'm fitting out a new pc, and I originally thought I was going to put FreeBSD on it, but, I probably need to have windows to keep up with my ASP .net work. I'm really not excited about spending $140.00, but, you have to pay if you want to play right?

I've read some negative things about 8.1, and I don't have a clue what all this Metro stuff is about. The missing Start button was enough to turn me off of 8 when I first heard about it. The issue I guess I'm having is wondering how fast MS will stop supporting 7.

I have XP SP1a loaded on to the new pc. It starts up. I CAN open IE6 and go to a couple of sites without it crashing. You can find SP2 anywhere.

So, anyway, Which way would you go? 7 or 8.1?

Go 8.0 no 7 and not 8.1
8.0 IMO is still better
I have to say for the W8 haters W8 is by far the most accepting OS to HW change and I love the apps feature because I can organize my tools how I want and have sections for things like videos/games/music/finance/amdin tools etc.
 

red_222

Member
Oct 28, 2013
46
0
0
Dos was easier to navigate than Windows 8. All you really needed to know was "cd\" and "dir" to find everything. I'd be happy if they replaced the Modern UI with command prompt personally.

I disagree, I find W8 navigation to be far easier than that of even 7
(lets not talk about Vista)
 

Snoop

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,424
0
76
To me there really isnt a choice. 8 or 8.1 with a start menu replacement is upgraded windows 7.

I haven't seen anything Metro in months. Just disable all of the nonsense and its all good.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
I pick 8.1.

It's faster, more secure, has great power-user features in Pro, and not complicated.
 

Virgorising

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2013
4,470
0
0
""
P.S. No matter what the story is the Touch/Tile interface is the future and it is Not going away
""

With all due respect, even after I now got to like Win8.1 (minus some quirks)..touch/tiles is the most appalling POS ever to come in front of my eyes.

If you think that a random arrangement of "tiles" consisting of a random collection of "apps" such as calendar, "apps", settings, the weather report etc. is "the future"..then good night...

I could as well post a screen-shot of my cluttered and hideously chaotic desktop where I have my icons in semi-random fashion "vomited upon my desktop"...and say "this is the future".


Touch is not the future in DESKTOPS. I totally relate to yr post, and the icing, is it also made me giggle.

THE END.
 
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Virgorising

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2013
4,470
0
0


8.1 after an ass-kicking.

Is MS paying U for this desktop I hope?

By the by, starting way back in XP, I made two desktop folders to contain most of my shortcuts. Faster boot, much neater, and you will remember what's in each of them if you do two. I have arrow icons re both, one red, other green.
 
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Virgorising

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2013
4,470
0
0
Disliking something is one thing but when I hear its complicated or can't figure this out I wonder have some users got dumber in modern times or just being very lazy even when a modern Windows OS does most of the work for them,especially when 8.1 has made things even easier then Win8.

Maybe I should go in a corner and cry lol,oh well I hope they are ready for Win9,10,11 etc if not they better get some valium pills ready .

Not about COMPLICATED, it's about Faustian (nobody has to be even puter literate to use touch or tablets, in fact, bet a dollar most addicted aren't).... gratuitous crap which insults our intelligence as individuals and is also anti pragmatic.

Edit: http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-modest-improvement-we-still-cant-recommend/3
 
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