Which would you buy? Win 7 or Win 8.1?

[Mem]

It is what caused the initial Vista hate as well, driver related issues.

They have to find something to moan about,not like they can say "we want the old Start menu button back" on Vista .

 

[C1]

In today's CE: Windows 8 Fails !

http://webserver.computoredge.com/editorial/3150/coverprint.htm

 

[Imaginer]

In today's CE: Windows 8 Fails !

http://webserver.computoredge.com/editorial/3150/coverprint.htm

I completely disagree in segmenting the PC and tablet arenas. Surface Pro and like minded devices begs to differ in that realm. I also eye skimmed over "NUMBERS REPORTING" many take to nowadays.

I agree that, and said before, a new user tutorial that is robust enough upon new local or Microsoft account creation, should be shown on 8 devices. That simple "Hey use these corners" only bit in 8 isn't enough. More cues in 8.1 is better, but that is one small part of the problem.

Periphery input, which this article fails to mention, also accounts indirectly to that experience. Most people who buy new laptops have to be using 8, but not all have touch screens, only trackpads (of which any OEM just pulls it off of a supplier, and use it as is). Makes me wonder why most people complain about this, because OEMs just do not care enough (which goes to my gripes about the built in webcam and built in microphone options).

BUT HEY NUMBERS!!! MARKETSHARE! Stuff that you can parrot over, and not give any discerning analysis.

 

[pmv]

In today's CE: Windows 8 Fails !

http://webserver.computoredge.com/editorial/3150/coverprint.htm

Those are quite startling figures.

So Win8 is actually going backwards in market share? And a huge number of XP users are only abandoning that OS as it approaches its end of extended support! They are only abandoning ship because MS is scuttling it! And they are boarding the USS Win7 instead!

Its very annoying, actually. I need a new PC, but STILL can't decide between 7 and 8, despite hanging on for ages in the hope it would become clearer (also hoping for better gfx cards and cpus - that didn't pan out that well either!). Really by this point it should have been a no-brainer, with a new OS offering all the previous one had plus more. Instead there are pros and cons for each, largely because of MS's determination to shove Metro in everyone's (inter)face.

I had just about settled on 7, then come the rumours of 8.2 fixing some of that metro crap. The plus point for 8, to me, is that it may yet get better, while 7 is presumably now as good as its going to get (and will go out of support rather earlier).

I am very much of the view that MS got this one horribly wrong. Even if they do finesse 8 the way the eventually did with Vista, as with that case, people have already made up their minds. Unlike with Vista the error seems much simpler - rather than a combination of various driver-problems and overoptimistically-labelled hardware, and initial bugs that took a SP to fix, its just down to one factor - the sheer arrogance of unnecessarily using desktop PC as an extended advert for tablet/touch computing.

 

[ControlD]

I had just about settled on 7, then come the rumours of 8.2 fixing some of that metro crap. The plus point for 8, to me, is that it may yet get better, while 7 is presumably now as good as its going to get (and will go out of support rather earlier).

I am very much of the view that MS got this one horribly wrong. Even if they do finesse 8 the way the eventually did with Vista, as with that case, people have already made up their minds. Unlike with Vista the error seems much simpler - rather than a combination of various driver-problems and overoptimistically-labelled hardware, and initial bugs that took a SP to fix, its just down to one factor - the sheer arrogance of unnecessarily using desktop PC as an extended advert for tablet/touch computing.

I see these types of statements a lot around here, I guess not surprisingly many times from people that don't actually own Windows 8. People are all worked up about the "Metro" parts of the operating system (which by the way I don't really like much at all either). The truth of the matter is, as a PC user (as opposed to a tablet user) the amount of time you spend in the Metro side of Windows 8 is so small it really isn't worth getting upset about. In fact, if you never want to see the modern interface at all you can install any number of third party programs to do just that.

I don't use any start menu replacements anymore and I still very rarely have to deal with the modern interface. My most used programs are pinned just like they were in Windows 7. Right clicking on the start button brings up a power menu with any admin type stuff I need. I have no programs that actually run in the modern interface so that isn't an issue either (how many people are actually USING Metro apps? ).

I fully understand people not liking the modern interface on a PC. I don't like it that much either, although it works fine as an application launcher. The reality of it however is that you simply don't have to deal with it much, if at all. For 98% of what I do Windows 8 and Windows 7 are essentially the same OS. I use both and my workflow isn't altered enough between the two to even begin getting upset about it.

 

[C1]

DaveStall wrote:
"I see these types of statements a lot around here, I guess not surprisingly many times from people that don't actually own Windows 8. People are all worked up about the "Metro" parts of the operating system (which by the way I don't really like much at all either). The truth of the matter is, as a PC user (as opposed to a tablet user) the amount of time you spend in the Metro side of Windows 8 is so small it really isn't worth getting upset about. In fact, if you never want to see the modern interface at all you can install any number of third party programs to do just that.

I don't use any start menu replacements anymore and I still very rarely have to deal with the modern interface. My most used programs are pinned just like they were in Windows 7. Right clicking on the start button brings up a power menu with any admin type stuff I need. I have no programs that actually run in the modern interface so that isn't an issue either (how many people are actually USING Metro apps? ).

I fully understand people not liking the modern interface on a PC. I don't like it that much either, although it works fine as an application launcher. The reality of it however is that you simply don't have to deal with it much, if at all. For 98% of what I do Windows 8 and Windows 7 are essentially the same OS. I use both and my workflow isn't altered enough between the two to even begin getting upset about it."

------------------------------------------

If you ever developed software for use by a community of users, then you would know immediately that it is not designed to work well "JUST FOR YOU" personally.

A fielded development like an OS needs to successfully fulfill an ensemble of criteria some of which is that it needs to be sufficiently robust to work across a variety of hardware, software applications and user backgrounds/experiences. Otherwise there is the risk that it will not be widely embraced by purchasers relative to alternatives. Thus, this is one of the risks of implementing too large a change to an already successfully accepted fielded product.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Seen this thread for weeks. May as well weigh in.

I'll buy Windows 7 next year. Time to drop XP. It'll be a huge upgrade from XP and I know I won't be disappointed.

 

[PliotronX]

Seen this thread for weeks. May as well weigh in.

I'll buy Windows 7 next year. Time to drop XP. It'll be a huge upgrade from XP and I know I won't be disappointed.

You definitely won't be, better in every way. It really feels like a polished desktop-oriented workstation OS.

Another reason to dislike 8 especially if you troubleshoot systems: when you lose the taskbar and hit Ctrl+Alt+Del to bring up task manager and run explorer.exe, you get a lovely security message stating you can't do that so the only option? Hold down the power button for four seconds. Excellent. Only discovered this when 8 flipped out on a laptop I momentarily dislodged from its docking station to label the bottom with a barcode for tracking and glean the model number. Vista and 7 had no problems undocking for just a couple seconds to label the laptops. So many dopey moves MS has made with 8

 

[ControlD]

If you ever developed software for use by a community of users, then you would know immediately that it is not designed to work well "JUST FOR YOU" personally.

A fielded development like an OS needs to successfully fulfill an ensemble of criteria some of which is that it needs to be sufficiently robust to work across a variety of hardware, software applications and user backgrounds/experiences. Otherwise there is the risk that it will not be widely embraced by purchasers relative to alternatives. Thus, this is one of the risks of implementing too large a change to an already successfully accepted fielded product.

I understand Windows 8 was not made "just for me" (I hope my use of a first person pronoun doesn't trigger an emotional response here).

My point, given from the first person as I was relating my take on Win 8 as that is all I have to go on, is that in actual day to day usage it isn't that much different than previous versions of Windows. People see that big scary page of tiles and Metro apps and think that's all that Windows 8 is. If you can use Windows XP or Windows 7 you can use Windows 8. I think that should meet the criteria of satisfying those people used to a well established and accepted product.

 

[ControlD]

You definitely won't be, better in every way. It really feels like a polished desktop-oriented workstation OS.

Another reason to dislike 8 especially if you troubleshoot systems: when you lose the taskbar and hit Ctrl+Alt+Del to bring up task manager and run explorer.exe, you get a lovely security message stating you can't do that so the only option? Hold down the power button for four seconds. Excellent. Only discovered this when 8 flipped out on a laptop I momentarily dislodged from its docking station to label the bottom with a barcode for tracking and glean the model number. Vista and 7 had no problems undocking for just a couple seconds to label the laptops. So many dopey moves MS has made with 8

That sounds like a user permission issue. I just ended explorer from the task manager and restarted it from the task manager with no problems. Not even a UAC message asking for permission.

 

[PliotronX]

That sounds like a user permission issue. I just ended explorer from the task manager and restarted it from the task manager with no problems. Not even a UAC message asking for permission.

Oh thank god. Yeah it was a domain user.

 

[glugglug]

you mean like Athlon XP? yes it wont run,

but for any Athlon 64 it should work great,
my X2 4000+ is running Windows 8, now 8.1 since release, the ancient NV chipset (2004-2005) works great, it have all the drivers... the PC feels really fast, no problems at all.

But are you running the 64-bit edition?

The x64 version of 8.1 won't run on the original single core Athlon 64's or the first gen of X2s or the first few generations of Opterons because they don't have a 128-bit compare exchange instruction. As a general rule, if the 64-bit CPU is old enough to use DDR instead of DDR-2 or DDR-3, it won't support all the instructions needed for Windows 8.1 x64. Which means there are many production servers currently running Server 2008 x64 which won't have a CPU supported by Windows 8.1 (or whatever server version replaces 2012) when Jan 2015 rolls around.

 

[Cerb]

I'll buy whatever Pro version is newest, but for now, will stick to installing 7. It's typically $30-50 more, depending on the day, on what will typically be a $800+ PC, and every now and then, something Home doesn't have comes in handy, anyway. I can always downgrade*, even though it might mean waiting on their annoying IVR (thanks to C&R Office not activating half the time, on the first try, I've gotten used to that, anyway). When they finally get the UI right**, we'll already all be running the betas or RCs, and will buy that upgrade, or make it an excuse to do a hardware refresh, and get a new OEM version. Get a key you can use to activate Windows 7 with now, and you'll be fine even if you don't cotton to 8.1, yet will have the option, as time goes on.

OTOH, if I didn't need Windows as a game host OS, I would skip having any version of it, like I did while I was in a gaming lull.

* Details, from MS themselves, in case anyone is interested.
** It took them about 3 years to make Vista into the leaner and nicer 7 (I recently really tried to use Vista in 1GB of RAM, with a Core Duo...service pack or no, it was still terrible compared to 7 on a slower Atom CPU with 1GB, even after following all the tweak guides). It will probably take less, this time, since they know very well that 7 could be like another XP, if they can't make a new Windows that's suitable for traditional business desktop/notebook/server use.

 

[Torn Mind]

In today's CE: Windows 8 Fails !

http://webserver.computoredge.com/editorial/3150/coverprint.htm

People who whine about 8 and 8.1 need to wake up and see their own intellectual sloth. In addition, those whiners spread FUD that people like me then listen to, believing Win8 to be barely usable, only to find out that everything I do in the old Windows can be done in the new.

It should have been an entirely insignificant update. The inclusion of Metro is entirely overblown. A shortcut to the Desktop exists on the Start Screen and furthermore, the bottom left corner provides instant access to it as well. Metro is nothing more than an extra screen. 8.1 further makes it a non-issue by making the Start Screen allowing Windows 8 to boot into the desktop and it makes accessing "All apps" faster to access.

The start menu can be broken down into a few parts: "pinned apps", Control Panel and other managerial menus, and the whole bunch of program shortcuts. The first feature is borderline just there, Control Panel and its submenus can be accessed in a multitude of ways, and the whole bunch of program shortcuts can be accessed on the all apps screen. In addition, it is more efficient to make a desktop shortcut or pin the program to the taskbar if it is sooooo important.

In addition, Windows 8 is hardly a pure tablet OS. It is actually simply two complete OSes in one: the old desktop, and the Metro UI. Since I cannot use Metro due to not wanting a Microsoft account, I simply just run desktop apps on Windows 8, and really, the experience is pretty "just another Windows experience". The same run the exe. files, the same pretty programs with GUIs, the same Aero peek... Furthermore, if one still wants the old start menu, third party programs are readily available and are inexpensive.

 

[Underclocked]

The question in my mind is... who the heck has any real use for the Metro interface or the apps on a desktop? I don't - so that makes it useless to me. I'm not knocking 8.1 overall as I rather like it but Metro is just a useless piece of annoying baggage to me.

 

[Zaap]

The question in my mind is... who the heck has any real use for the Metro interface or the apps on a desktop? I don't - so that makes it useless to me. I'm not knocking 8.1 overall as I rather like it but Metro is just a useless piece of annoying baggage to me.

That's how I feel, which is the root of the problem.

Even all the "pro-8" arguments basically just amount to: "Metro is easy to avoid, so what's the big deal?"

Not a big deal, just a big: "WHAT WAS THE POINT!!?" of all this hoopla around something that's greatest strength seems to be how easy it is to avoid.

 

[pmv]

The question in my mind is... who the heck has any real use for the Metro interface or the apps on a desktop? I don't - so that makes it useless to me. I'm not knocking 8.1 overall as I rather like it but Metro is just a useless piece of annoying baggage to me.

Yeah, part of me thinks 'well, if I just use one of the add-on start-menu replacements I can avoid Metro and still get the few security and under-the-hood improvements of 8'.

But I aesthetically resent having a whole extra O/S interface sitting there that I will never, ever, use. Its just bloat. And it also makes me suspect a lot of MS's support work will go on faffing around with the bit I don't use while the bit I do (the desktop) gets neglected like a disfavoured step-child.

 

[pmv]

I don't like it that much either, although it works fine as an application launcher. The reality of it however is that you simply don't have to deal with it much, if at all. For 98% of what I do Windows 8 and Windows 7 are essentially the same OS. I use both and my workflow isn't altered enough between the two to even begin getting upset about it.

Serious question, as I'm still trying to decide which way to go.

If you use the start screen as an 'application launcher', do you not end up with a badly-sorted list of huge numbers of horizontally-scrolling un-nested app shortcuts? I just don't see how that is any kind of improvement on the start menu with its nested and cascading menus, right there on your desktop.
Seems to me one would be better advised to use a substitute start-menu and avoid Metro entirely (which again makes one ask, why is it there?).
Wish I knew more precisely what 8.2 is going to be!

 

[ControlD]

Serious question, as I'm still trying to decide which way to go.

If you use the start screen as an 'application launcher', do you not end up with a badly-sorted list of huge numbers of horizontally-scrolling un-nested app shortcuts? I just don't see how that is any kind of improvement on the start menu with its nested and cascading menus, right there on your desktop.
Seems to me one would be better advised to use a substitute start-menu and avoid Metro entirely (which again makes one ask, why is it there?).
Wish I knew more precisely what 8.2 is going to be!

You are pretty much right on. What you have is a long horizontally scrolling list of shortcuts. It isn't great, that's for sure.

However, you can sort your shortcuts and widgets into different groups which helps a little bit.

Everybody's usage is different, but in general I would guess that most people have a fairly small core group of programs that they run on a regular basis. For those programs, pinning them to the task bar (like with Vista or Win7) is probably the easiest option to have quick access to those. For programs used every-once-in-a-while, it doesn't take too much work to make a group of shortcuts in the Metro interface so you have quick access to those.

I started with Windows 8 + Start8 and ran that way for some time. If you do something like that you are pretty much running an interface like Windows 7. It works fine. After a reinstall I decided to try using Win8 without any start menu replacement and what I ended up finding out was that I simply don't miss it like I expected to. If I were you, I would try running Win8.1 vanilla for a week and if you simply cannot stand having to switch to the Metro interface from time to time go ahead and install a start menu replacement.

 

[Mem]

The question in my mind is... who the heck has any real use for the Metro interface or the apps on a desktop? I don't - so that makes it useless to me. I'm not knocking 8.1 overall as I rather like it but Metro is just a useless piece of annoying baggage to me.

I actually prefer Metro Start for my games list rather then the old way on Win7 where I use to just pin them to the start menu then run out of space on that.
On Metro start I can organise them better and have far more listed,however desktop is still there for the most part so you can still pin them to the taskbar or desktop(I don't because I like a clean desktop even on Win7).

Regardless I'm ready for Win9 now since already bored with Win7,8,8.1 and I now need something new to play with .

 

[Maximilian]

The question in my mind is... who the heck has any real use for the Metro interface or the apps on a desktop? I don't - so that makes it useless to me. I'm not knocking 8.1 overall as I rather like it but Metro is just a useless piece of annoying baggage to me.

Yup useless excess trash is what metro is. If they bring back the start menu, combined with already being able to boot to desktop then its fine. Excess trash that dosent get in the way isnt a problem anymore.

 

[Ranulf]

You got chocolate in my peanut butter! You got tablet OS in my Desktop OS!

Oh, and you really really really, like really should sign up with a MSN account as your computer login access. Skydrive! Cloud! McCloud? Apps! Oh, and please, please buy them on *our* store, its so much better than those other guys.

I can see where metro works well on tablets but I don't want some silly combo OS that I have to spend time and money tweaking to just get to where I was. As well, a company telling me to like it or leave it because they desperately want to horne in on the tablet market (while they undercut the OEMs in tablets who also make desktops/laptops that use windows) is just arrogance. I just might take them up on that and go to linux. I already finally broke down and bought an Apple to goof around with. If games ran well on linux...

 

[ControlD]

You got chocolate in my peanut butter! You got tablet OS in my Desktop OS!

Oh, and you really really really, like really should sign up with a MSN account as your computer login access. Skydrive! Cloud! McCloud? Apps! Oh, and please, please buy them on *our* store, its so much better than those other guys.

I can see where metro works well on tablets but I don't want some silly combo OS that I have to spend time and money tweaking to just get to where I was. As well, a company telling me to like it or leave it because they desperately want to horne in on the tablet market (while they undercut the OEMs in tablets who also make desktops/laptops that use windows) is just arrogance. I just might take them up on that and go to linux. I already finally broke down and bought an Apple to goof around with. If games ran well on linux...

So you are upset that MS wants you to sign up for their services. Fair enough. Were you similarly bummed out when Apple wanted you (hell it might be required) to tie your Mac to an AppleID? Does the App Store icon sitting in your dock upset you? Apple is afterall hoping you buy all of your programs from *their* app store too. That's the way things are going.

If people don't like Windows 8 that's fine. I can understand why. But where did they tell you to like it or leave it? Did MS suddenly stop providing security updates for Windows 7? Did they activate a kill switch that makes anything older than Windows 8 stop working? I don't see the arrogance. I see a poorly thought out attempt to integrate a common interface across multiple platforms but I'm not sure I would call it arrogant.

 

[Ranulf]

No, I expect it (walled garden/app store etc) from Apple. I don't from MS, at least not for a desktop OS.

They basically told people to just get used to Metro until they couldn't ignore it via the adoption numbers all to grab the tablet market.

 

[corkyg]

The question is, Win 7 or Win 8.1 Why so much BS about 8.0? I have both - Win 7 and Win 8.1. With Start8 1.31, Win 8.1 is Win 7 on steroids. For me it's a no brainer. 8.1 Pro all the way.