White Nationalist mass protest turns to riot at University of Virginia

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Because our schools have largely devolved into factories for making young people into ignorant but politically useful people.

ah good. distrust "the system" because it doesn't align with you "politics," as you see it.

that's the first step to fascism, but I suspect you were already past this point years ago.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Trump isnt suffering for his stupidity, but he's looking foolish:


http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-from-trumps-mar-a-lago-since-charlottesville


An 18th charity has pulled its event from President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate since his controversial remarks on the violence in Charlottesville, Va., last month.

The Palm Beach Habilitation Center will no longer hold its annual Hab-a-Hearts luncheon at the president’s property in Palm Beach, Fla., the Palm Beach Daily News reported Sunday.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,038
4,800
136
More people waking up to the bullshit. Sunshine is the best medicine.
If his supporters were truly Christian they'd crack open their bibles and give it a read then they'd see things like:
1 Thessalonians 5:21King James Version (KJV) - 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Luke 8:17-19Amplified Bible (AMP)
17 For there is nothing hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come out into the open. 18 So be careful how you listen; for whoever has [a teachable heart], to him more [understanding] will be given; and whoever does not have [a longing for truth], even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him.”
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
You are defending the stature of the 19th century monster that did surgeries on slave women just to see whats going on? Fuck off racist bitch.

That mother fuckers statue should come down.

Did I write that article? Cite one word, just one word that I "defending" that status as you claim. Go ahead. I will wait.

In the mean while,go on with your race card, chump.

Bitch gonna bitch. Fuck you right back.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Did I write that article? Cite one word, just one word that I "defending" that status as you claim. Go ahead. I will wait.

In the mean while,go on with your race card, chump.

Bitch gonna bitch. Fuck you right back.

Trump's audience: the GOP base ^
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Did I write that article? Cite one word, just one word that I "defending" that status as you claim. Go ahead. I will wait.

In the mean while,go on with your race card, chump.

Bitch gonna bitch. Fuck you right back.

What was the purpose of posting the article if not in defense of shitty people in the past? Or did you not read the article?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
what an awesome guy... if you are racist and in the 1950's you would put some bronze up to remind blacks...

Sims' experimental surgeries without anesthesia on enslaved African-American women who could not consent have been described since the late 20th century as an example of racism in the medical profession. This sheds a light on the historically violent oppression of blacks and vulnerable populations in the United States.[1] Patients of Sims' fistula and trismus nascentium operations were not given available anesthetics. He caused the deaths of babies on whom he operated for the trismus nascentium condition.

In regards to Sims' discoveries, Durrenda Ojenunga wrote in 1993:

"His fame and fortune were a result of unethical experimentation with powerless Black women. Dr Sims, 'the father of gynaecology', was the first doctor to perfect a successful technique for the cure of vesico-vaginal fistula, yet despite his accolades, in his quest for fame and recognition, he manipulated the social institution of slavery to perform human experimentations, which by any standard is unacceptable." [6]

Author Harriet Washington, in her 2007 book Medical Apartheid, writes of Sims' experiments: "Each naked, unanesthetized slave woman had to be forcibly restrained by other physicians through her shrieks of agony as Sims determinedly sliced, then sutured her genitalia."[15] Facing South, a publication of The Institute for Southern Studies, wrote that enslaved women were forced to hold each other down during surgery.[16]

Physician L.L. Wall, writing in the Journal of Medical Ethics, says fistula surgery on non-anesthetized patients would require cooperation from the patient, and would not be possible if there were any active resistance from the patient. Wall writes that surviving documentation from the time says the women were trained to assist in their own surgical procedures. Wall also argues the documentation suggests the women consented to the surgeries, as the women were motivated to have their fistulas repaired, due to the serious medical and social nature of vesicovaginal and rectovaginal fistulas.[3]

In his autobiography, J. Marion Sims said he was indebted to the enslaved women. After multiple failed operations he was discouraged, and the enslaved women encouraged him to proceed, because they were determined to have their medical afflictions cured.[3] Shortly after Sims' successful repair of Anarcha's vesicovaginal and rectovaginal fistulas in 1849, he successfully repaired the fistulas of the other enslaved women. They returned to their plantations.[10]

Sims has been criticized for operating on the enslaved women without their consent. Wall writes in the Journal of Medical Ethics, that legally consent was granted by the slave's owners, while noting that enslaved persons were a "vulnerable population" with respect to medical experimentation. Wall also writes that Sims obtained consent from the enslaved women themselves.

He cites an 1855 passage from New York Medical Gazette and Journal of Health, where Sims wrote:

"For this purpose [therapeutic surgical experimentation] I was fortunate in having three young healthy colored girls given to me by their owners in Alabama, I agreeing to perform no operation without the full consent of the patients, and never to perform any that would, in my judgment, jeopard life, or produce greater mischief on the injured organs—the owners agreeing to let me keep them (at my own expense) till I was thoroughly convinced whether the affection could be cured or not."[3]

Deirdre Cooper Owens wrote: "Sims has been painted as either a monstrous butcher or a benign figure who, despite his slaveowning status, wanted to cure all women from their distinctly gendered suffering." She describes these opposing views as overly reductionist, saying his history is more nuanced. He lived in a slave-holding society and expressed the racism and sexism that were considered normal during his time. She also credits him as "the father of gynecology". He contributed significantly to the field of gynecological surgery. Sims' suture technique developed in the 1800s for fistula surgery is still in use by modern-day physicians.[17]
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
What was the purpose of posting the article if not in defense of shitty people in the past? Or did you not read the article?

I have it on good authority that none of the people toeing the trump party line on the matter are conservative or in any way favor the conservative party.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
You are defending the stature of the 19th century monster that did surgeries on slave women just to see whats going on? Fuck off racist bitch.

That mother fuckers statue should come down.
Learn to read. He didn't operate "just to see whats going on", he operated to repair medical problems they wanted fixed. After several failed repairs, he did indeed create a technique to cure these women. It was of course extremely painful - it was surgery in the nineteenth century.

I have no opinion either way on the moral quality of the man since I'd never heard of him, but that is how surgery proceeded in the nineteenth century.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Learn to read. He didn't operate "just to see whats going on", he operated to repair medical problems they wanted fixed. After several failed repairs, he did indeed create a technique to cure these women. It was of course extremely painful - it was surgery in the nineteenth century.

I have no opinion either way on the moral quality of the man since I'd never heard of him, but that is how surgery proceeded in the nineteenth century.

Bullshit. You don't hold human beings down and operate on them like that. Elite shit.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Or atleast we shouldn't be celebrating that fuck. We should be celebrating the woman that endured 13 surgeries.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Or atleast we shouldn't be celebrating that fuck. We should be celebrating the woman that endured 13 surgeries.
Give them a break. I'm sure they would be lauding the syphilis experiments performed on blacks in the 50s
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
What was the purpose of posting the article if not in defense of shitty people in the past? Or did you not read the article?

You do not get to ask questions while wimping out my questions.

Once again, did I write the article?

Where did I "defending" the status as you claimed?

Keep waving that race card, bitch..then go fuck yourself.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Bullshit. You don't hold human beings down and operate on them like that. Elite shit.
Actually that was quite common in that time period. Do at least a little research before your knee jerks, dude. In early to middle 19th century America, no commonly available general anesthesia existed beyond alcohol, which was as like to kill you as not in surgical concentration, or laudanum, which was too expensive for the very poor. Even in Europe, only relatively wealthy people could afford anything better, which was why opiate addiction (from morphine or laudanum) was an upper class affliction in the nineteenth century. And only a very few surgeons were even experimenting with general anesthesia. Morphine, isolated and commercially produced in the mid 1820s IIRC, was also likely to kill one if used in sufficient strength to allow painless surgery. Middle 19th century was the period when surgeons (mostly in Europe and the Far East) were experimenting to find usable, affordable general anesthetics, just as surgeons were also experimenting to find ways to treat untreatable conditions. Even a quarter century later in the Civil War, with the government's resources importing morphine and procuring ether, and with the hypodermic (invented in the 1850s) available in mass production to quickly get morphine into the bloodstream in predictable doses, many soldiers (especially Confederates) endured amputations with little or nothing to kill the pain. Slaves, and poor people in general, would usually face surgery without anesthesia. In such case the patient is always restrained, because even the bravest cannot keep still while being cut open. This is also why many people chose to live with very painful but correctable afflictions - the pain of surgery could literally kill you. (And if it didn't, infection probably would as antibiotics didn't exist either.)

Dr. Crawford Long, honored as the 1st anesthesiologist, used ether as a general anesthetic for a much less painful surgery. It was revolutionary. It was also 1842. Morphine, long available, only became widely used when the hypodermic needle became widely used. (Actually after 1866, when hypodermic needles with glass bodies first allowed doctors to see how much had been injected.) Here are two different ends of the spectrum - ether, with very limited surgical use, and morphine, suitable for any surgery but also too expensive for poor people and, before the hypodermic, too dangerous for widespread use. (Which is probably why laudanum persisted so long after the isolation of morphine - it was less effective, but safer, cheaper, and more predictable.) But neither of these would have been commonly available in this time frame to the very poor, much less to slaves.

Many people don't understand the state of medicine in these times. Even after World War 1 - three quarters of a century after these operations - Bernard Montgomery's wife died from a freaking bug bite that became infected. This wasn't a freak occurrence, this was just a fact of life. Medical treatment was largely brutal and painful, and quite often still ineffective.
 
Last edited:

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Give them a break. I'm sure they would be lauding the syphilis experiments performed on blacks in the 50s
Not even remotely the same thing, dude. Those blacks were intentionally infected and furthermore, their infection was intentionally kept from them by the federal government they trusted. These women had painful, humiliating medical conditions not treatable by medical science of the day, and this doctor was performing experimental procedures (NOT experiments!) to cure those medical conditions using commonly accepted medical procedures of the time. But thanks for playing the race card.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
You do not get to ask questions while wimping out my questions.

Once again, did I write the article?

Where did I "defending" the status as you claimed?

Keep waving that race card, bitch..then go fuck yourself.

If you'd learn how to properly comment on things you posted, people wouldn't have to figure out what the fuck you are trying to say.

I'm not sure why you are getting mad at people for trying to figure out your dumb ass.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Actually that was quite common in that time period. Do at least a little research before your knee jerks, dude. In early to middle 19th century America, no commonly available general anesthesia existed beyond alcohol, which was as like to kill you as not in surgical concentration, or laudanum, which was too expensive for the very poor. Even in Europe, only relatively wealthy people could afford anything better, which was why opiate addiction (from morphine or laudanum) was an upper class affliction in the nineteenth century. And only a very few surgeons were even experimenting with general anesthesia. Morphine, isolated and commercially produced in the mid 1820s IIRC, was also likely to kill one if used in sufficient strength to allow painless surgery. Middle 19th century was the period when surgeons (mostly in Europe and the Far East) were experimenting to find usable, affordable general anesthetics, just as surgeons were also experimenting to find ways to treat untreatable conditions. Even a quarter century later in the Civil War, with the government's resources importing morphine and procuring ether, and with the hypodermic (invented in the 1850s) available in mass production to quickly get morphine into the bloodstream in predictable doses, many soldiers (especially Confederates) endured amputations with little or nothing to kill the pain. Slaves, and poor people in general, would usually face surgery without anesthesia. In such case the patient is always restrained, because even the bravest cannot keep still while being cut open. This is also why many people chose to live with very painful but correctable afflictions - the pain of surgery could literally kill you. (And if it didn't, infection probably would as antibiotics didn't exist either.)

Dr. Crawford Long, honored as the 1st anesthesiologist, used ether as a general anesthetic for a much less painful surgery. It was revolutionary. It was also 1842. Morphine, long available, only became widely used when the hypodermic needle became widely used. (Actually after 1866, when hypodermic needles with glass bodies first allowed doctors to see how much had been injected.) Here are two different ends of the spectrum - ether, with very limited surgical use, and morphine, suitable for any surgery but also too expensive for poor people and, before the hypodermic, too dangerous for widespread use. (Which is probably why laudanum persisted so long after the isolation of morphine - it was less effective, but safer, cheaper, and more predictable.) But neither of these would have been commonly available in this time frame to the very poor, much less to slaves.

Many people don't understand the state of medicine in these times. Even after World War 1 - three quarters of a century after these operations - Bernard Montgomery's wife died from a freaking bug bite that became infected. This wasn't a freak occurrence, this was just a fact of life. Medical treatment was largely brutal and painful, and quite often still ineffective.

Ok wall of text. You don't get to mengela your way into being a cool and good doctor that has a bronze statue.
 
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