who do you think was behind jfk's assassination?

[thraashman]

The Comedian.

 

[monovillage]

I think a Communist killed JFK and a Palestinian killed RFK.

 

[xj0hnx]

Nope. Trilateral Commission.

Negative, The Military Industrial Complex.

 

[zinfamous]

If Oswald did it all alone, then why hasn't the feds released all the files to the public?

Oswald was also a bad shot and his Marine records stated he was not a top level shooter.

There are a lot of inconsistent facts that do not add up. Even the cop that was shot and killed, shell casings of two different brands were found at the scene but Oswald was armed with a revolver, did he stand there and reload without a care after shooting the cop down?

Actually, this is completely untrue. Oswald was a top level shooter. Conspiracy theorists never can get anywhere without first distorting some of the truths, and/or omitting others.

 

[zinfamous]

I will be a skeptic on Oswald being the sole planner. Considering FDR and Truman made it through WWII without any assassination attempts with plenty of crack shot Germans who sympathized Adolph around at the time.

They will not release all the case files and data and that alone is shady.

Nothing shady about that, really. It's just some people seem to think this pile of typical classified documents is more sacred than any other pile of typically classified documents.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm not one with detailed knowledge of the events, but a lot of assassinations have occurred from people that were not previously known to be dead eye's. Coincidences happen everyday and inconsistencies and irregularities happen despite the fact....just ask OJ Simpson about the magic glove.

http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-His.../dp/0393045250

That is, by far, the most definitive account of the event, comprising all of the evidence in the case, every piece of the Warren Report examined and re-examined; nothing but the pure truth.

Never is the fact of Oswald being the lone shooter and only suspect in the case more clear--and this is based purely on the available evidence.

No conspiracy--not a single one--stands in the face of the actual evidence. And there it is, for all to examine who actually care to.


....will it stop conspiracy theorists? will they ever shut up about it? Of course not--the first act is to change truths, assume facts are not facts, ignore the inconvenient truths, and so on; and simply putting the facts all together in one rock-solid piece of research will never slow them down.

 

[HeXen]

Nothing shady about that, really. It's just some people seem to think this pile of typical classified documents is more sacred than any other pile of typically classified documents.

Often names and other such sensitive info. I doubt there's anything there that would shock anyone, most of what they got is a bunch of he said, she said crap. They even went to my town to interview some guy who knew Ruby and said he was communist...so they were thorough but it's still an open case afaik so of course some things are expected to stay classified like they do with any other ongoing murder investigation.
We have cold case files where a lot of info has been kept from public, it's standard procedure.

 

[zinfamous]

Often names and other such sensitive info. I doubt there's anything there that would shock anyone, most of what they got is a bunch of he said, she said crap. They even went to my town to interview some guy who knew Ruby and said he was communist...so they were thorough but it's still an open case afaik so of course some things are expected to stay classified like they do with any other ongoing murder investigation.
We have cold case files where a lot of info has been kept from public, it's standard procedure.

exactly. The thing with Ruby, too, is that he never had true mob connections. Something about him once hoping to get help from one of the families--Carliotti something something? I forget--to rough up some local state collectors and ease the licensing for Ruby's strip clubs. They refused him.

And of course, you know that the Feds were all over those families, and that info is available--enough of it, anyway, to show that Ruby had no dealings with them.

 

[Zaap]

Oswald did it, acting alone.

I used to be into all the conspiracy theories, but one by one I've seen where they're all just distortions or flat out wrong. And I've been amazed over the years how so many things are just things that someone once proclaimed, everyone else ran with, then no one ever bothered to test out.

Classic example: "Oswald couldn't have walked to where he shot the Dallas police officer from the Book Depository!" For years I heard that one stated as fact by conspiracy theories... until finally someone simply tried it and timed it. Turns out- the timeline matched up exactly!

When I saw this on the whole magic bullet thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfSXkfV_mhA


It was like... my head was aching. So many simple things no one ever bothered to check, to the point it's mind-boggling. I mean really... no one ever checked out the car and Gov. Connally's EXACT seating position, before spouting off with insane 'magic bullet' nonsense? It's just stunning.

And all the "it was an impossible shot, so there must have been other shooters..."

Again, it all made for plausible doubt- until you realize that everyone had been going off with incomplete faulty info. Once the facts are known- the shot has been duplicated and pretty much proven that only Oswald fired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZRUNYZY71g


Whatever you do, don't watch Oliver Stone's JFK. That movie is just rife with so much wrong/faulty/flat-out wrong information that it's almost a comedy at this point.

One thing that remains mysterious to me is Oswald himself. There was definitely more to Oswald than what's known about him. His defection to/from the Soviet Union and return to the US is mystifying. I'm not saying it validates any of the nutty conspiracies- just that things are probably not all one way or the other just because the conspiracies are wrong.

Was there more than one shooter? I don't believe so. But was Oswald just an ordinary guy, who just happened to defect to and from the Soviet Union, without someone, somewhere in some high office pulling the strings for whatever reason? I also don't believe so.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Chris Rock did it.....

 

[mode101wpb]

Actually, this is completely untrue. Oswald was a top level shooter. Conspiracy theorists never can get anywhere without first distorting some of the truths, and/or omitting others.

Not what I read and these are documented facts.

http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/poor shot.htm

 

[mode101wpb]

Nothing shady about that, really. It's just some people seem to think this pile of typical classified documents is more sacred than any other pile of typically classified documents.

People that are no longer with us.

 

[Zaap]

Not what I read and these are documented facts.

http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/poor shot.htm

The point missed, is that Oswald was good enough to make the shots that killed JFK. He was the lone shooter.

Shots coming from other positions that conspiracy theories tout (like storm drains and the grassy knoll) don't even make sense when actually put to the test.

 

[IGBT]

Marxist / Leninist socialist conspirators. Oswald was the window dressing and throw away patsy.

 

[mode101wpb]

The point missed, is that Oswald was good enough to make the shots that killed JFK. He was the lone shooter.

Shots coming from other positions that conspiracy theories tout (like storm drains and the grassy knoll) don't even make sense when actually put to the test.

I am basing some of my thoughts on information that was reported and documented, not just conspiracy theories while I still believe he did not act alone because he had a clear face shot before the turn and did not take it and chose a more difficult shot.

Was he really good enough with a tree fully covered in leaves to make a shot at a moving target with a shit rifle with a misaligned scope that the Warren Commission had to shim and a shot that never could be replicated. Why take the harder shot? Was it 100% pure luck? Oswald magically won the lotto that day, but yet was stupid enough to get caught? Things just do not add up.

http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/rifle.htm

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/iteam&id=9335654

Also this:

"The fence area in Dealey Plaza: More than 50 witnesses testified to the Warren Commission that they heard or saw a shot coming from a supposedly empty fence area to the front of the president."

Biggest conspiracy theory is the Grassy Knoll, but if that's the reason Oswald did not take the face shot because he was told to wait for a back-up if he missed, let's see he supposedly fired 3 shots and missed on one and the fatal shot came from a different angle they claim. I wasn't there, but the facts just don't add up.

Then again the laws of Physics are always wrong and disproven even the intact unscathed magical bullet that went through Kennedy's back and through his throat, several layers of clothes hit some bone and then into the Gov. yet came out in pristine condition with no deformation.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CE399side.jpg

 

[zinfamous]

Not what I read and these are documented facts.

http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/poor shot.htm

Ha! the documents say nothing as to what are considered good scores for each test. It just shows numbers. The following description in that document only describes each score, but doesn't quantify what they mean.

Further, the accompanying text on that webpage describes an interview with a corpsman that answers questions as one would expect, little detail, little information, merely allowing for circumspection to feed conspiracists. He never says yes or no--he says Oswald qualified. That's it.

Any attempt to gain a poor shot or good shot from that is based on imagination.

Also, I'm just going to go ahead and take the information pieced together through a CT website as pure fantasy. It's inherently biased against all available evidence, and puts great weight in assumption and imagination, not facts.

 

[zinfamous]

People that are no longer with us.

Do you think that absolves them of classified status?

It doesn't, unless you want it to. Again, creating policy and facts where they don't exist.

 

[zinfamous]

"The fence area in Dealey Plaza: More than 50 witnesses testified to the Warren Commission that they heard or saw a shot coming from a supposedly empty fence area to the front of the president."

Sure, you would have heard that, too. so would I. Sound delay, echo--oftentimes sounds come to you not from where they are occurring, and this happens daily.

Physics wins.

You would understand this, if you left the basement once in a while.

 

[xj0hnx]

I am basing some of my thoughts on information that was reported and documented, not just conspiracy theories while I still believe he did not act alone because he had a clear face shot before the turn and did not take it and chose a more difficult shot.

The rear shot is not any more difficult than the front shot, both were pretty much straight line for decent period of time. Also, shooting at him from the front someone may have seen a glint from the scope. Not too mention that the set up in the room may have been easier to take the shot once he had passed.

Was he really good enough with a tree fully covered in leaves

Actually, it was November, the leaves would have already started to drop, if not already dropped, he would have had a pretty clear shot. My brother went there and checked it out, he said it would be an easy shot. There's also the fact that 50 years ago the tree was probably a bit smaller.

to make a shot at a moving target

Relative to Oswald's position, either coming at him, or moving away he was not really moving.

with a shit rifle with a misaligned scope that the Warren Commission had to shim and a shot that never could be replicated.

Wiki - "The FBI tests of the Carcano's accuracy showed:
1) FBI firearms expert Robert A. Frazier testified that "It is a very accurate weapon. The targets we fired show that."[61] From 15 yards (14 m), all three bullets in a test firing landed approximately 2½ inches high, and 1-inch (25 mm) to the right, in the area about the size of a dime.[62] At 100 yards (91 m), the test shots landed 2½ to 5 inches (130 mm) high, within a 3 to 5-inch (130 mm) circle. Frazier testified that the scope's high variation would actually work in the shooter's favor: with a target moving away from the shooter, no "lead" correction would have been necessary to follow the target. "At that range, at that distance, 175 feet (53 m) to 265 feet (81 m),[63] with this rifle and that telescopic sight, I would not have allowed any lead — I would not have made any correction for lead merely to hit a target of that size."
2) The rifle couldn't be perfectly "sighted-in" using the scope (i.e., thereby eliminating the above overshoot completely) without installing two metal shims (small metal plates), which were not present when the rifle arrived for testing, and were never found.[64] Frazier testified that there was "a rather severe scrape" on the scope tube, and that the sight could have been bent or damaged. He was unable to determine when the defect occurred before the FBI received the rifle and scope on November 27, 1963."

Why take the harder shot? Was it 100% pure luck? Oswald magically won the lotto that day, but yet was stupid enough to get caught? Things just do not add up.

http://www.giljesus.com/jfk/rifle.htm

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/iteam&id=9335654

Also this:

"The fence area in Dealey Plaza: More than 50 witnesses testified to the Warren Commission that they heard or saw a shot coming from a supposedly empty fence area to the front of the president."

Biggest conspiracy theory is the Grassy Knoll, but if that's the reason Oswald did not take the face shot because he was told to wait for a back-up if he missed, let's see he supposedly fired 3 shots and missed on one and the fatal shot came from a different angle they claim. I wasn't there, but the facts just don't add up.

Then again the laws of Physics are always wrong and disproven even the intact unscathed magical bullet that went through Kennedy's back and through his throat, several layers of clothes hit some bone and then into the Gov. yet came out in pristine condition with no deformation.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CE399side.jpg

Wiki - "During his Marine Corps service in December 1956, Oswald scored a rating of sharpshooter (twice achieving 48 and 49 out of 50 shots during rapid fire at a stationary target 200 yards [183 m] away using a standard issue M1 Garand semi-automatic rifle), although in May 1959, he qualified as a marksman (a lower classification than that of sharpshooter). Military experts, after examining his records, characterized his firearms proficiency as "above average" and said he was, when compared to American civilian males of his age, "an excellent shot".[57]"

Basically you are just parroting the same wrong information that people have been incorrectly parroting for decades. Once reality and actual facts are applied to the assassination, it becomes much less of a mystery, and the conspiracies just shrivel up ...now if they would just die like they should.

 

[Zaap]

...a shot that never could be replicated.

This right here tells me that you're just unwilling to look at anything other than conspiracies that support what you want to believe. (I understand it, for a long time I was caught up with interest in all the same things- because it is compelling.)

But the shots can be replicated. I just posted a video of the so-called "magic bullet" shot being replicated. The facts are clear- it was a good bit of shooting, but not impossible, and yes, that can be replicated.

Oswald magically won the lotto that day, but yet was stupid enough to get caught? Things just do not add up.

When people say he got caught as if he was trying to, again, it tells me they haven't looked at the actual facts and are basing things off some wild conspiracies.

Oswald didn't just stick around to get caught. He took off, went home, armed himself with a revolver- shot and killed a police officer that tried to question him, and fled into a theatre. He wasn't caught standing around over a smoking gun like an idiot, he was caught in the theatre where he thought he could blend in. (But someone witnessed him sneak in without paying.)

Then again the laws of Physics are always wrong and disproven even the intact unscathed magical bullet that went through Kennedy's back and through his throat, several layers of clothes hit some bone and then into the Gov. yet came out in pristine condition with no deformation.

Again, it's been replicated. The same bullet in tests fired from the same rifle at the same distance can easily make all the same wounds and come through it in the same condition. All the conspiracies are based on fault information about the locations of Kennedy and Connally in the car, that amazingly enough, people just hadn't bothered to check out properly. Like I said before, for me, that was a mind-blower. But that's how these things go- human error, combined with people wanting to believe things.

Also- it's been a big lie that the 'magic' bullet was entirely in pristine condition. It wasn't It was slightly flattened from striking a rib. A bullet fired the same way can be shown to come out pretty much exactly in the same condition. (Again, the shot has been replicated several times- it's all been debunked.)

 

[IGBT]

did they ever open the so called sealed archive??

 

[Anarchist420]

They will not release all the case files and data and that alone is shady.

+1.

 

[SolMiester]

i dont believe the "lone nut" theory for one second. im of the opinion that lbj and/or the cia were who got him.

lbj completely reversed jfk's foreign policy (particularly on israel and the vietnam war) plans as soon as he took office and jfk had fired dulles plus he rejected the cia's Op Northwoods proposal.

and of course the govt has attempted to keep too many things secret on JFK and they renew the secrecy each time right before it expires.

a lot of what jfk did made no sense and it sucked that he wasnt his father (or better yet his grandfather who delivered an address for and supported the Last Good Democrat), but he wasnt as bad as johnson simply because the former got nothing done and probably wasnt going to as he was neither as ambitious nor as domineering.

Not sure about the CIA or LBJ, however I have heard theories about many many politicians and the like, with money invested in Factories etc build for the war and JFK was adamant the US would pull out....

 

[SolMiester]

the simple fact is that all of the conspiracy theories have one thing in common: far too complicated, far too dependent on scores of people keeping their dirty secrets for any of it to ever remain secret.

the only sensible verdict is, in fact, what actually happened: Oswald shot him because he was lonely nut. This is almost always the case in the real world. People don't want to believe it because they want their tragedies to have grander meaning, but that's simply how it is.

I might of accepted that, except for the fact he was wacked before they even had a chance to question him!

 

[AdamantC]

Marine records stated he was not a top level shooter.

JFK was shot at a distance of under 300 feet. If you have a solid rifle and ammo (and as others have already pointed out the Carcano and its ammo is) hitting someone at that distance, even for an average to above average shot, should not be that difficult.

You could still hit something at that range with a decent .22LR setup much less the more powerful 6.5mm round the Carcano uses.