Who here knows the actual cost of their health care?

[Jakeisbest]

Here is part of an NPR story which was on the raido:

NPR's Julie Rovner says Len Nichols, an economist with the New America Foundation, made the same point to her recently. Nichols puts the price tag at $1.6 trillion over ten years.


Here is my story:

I have a good job and good insurance (anthem blue cross HMO).

Last Friday I had a Gal stone. My girl friend drove me to my local hospital, I paid a $100 deductible.

I received: 2 (very wonderful) shots of morphine, 2 bags of saline (to hydrate me after puking all day), I got an ultrasound of my stomach area (I have having kittens btw) to locate the stone, finally I was release after the stone passed and I didn't need any more pain meds (I spent about 7 hours in the ER)).

THAT is a shit load of service for only $100!

I have no idea how much any of that really costs. I have no idea if maybe the other hospital close to my house is cheaper than the one I went to. I don't know if I could have asked for a different type of similar treatment that would have cost less.

If I had to pay even 2% of the total cost I probably would have thought about what treatments were offered and what hospital I went to.

 

[0marTheZealot]

You probably received around 4,000 dollars worth of treatment.

 

[Jakeisbest]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
You probably received around 4,000 dollars worth of treatment.

Thats what I am talking about! I mean while I was in the ER i all ready paid my deductible. They could have sold me snake oil and I would have been like " Hell Ya, that snake oil is great, really takes the pain away!".

How can we possibly control health care cost if the consumer is totally out of the loop?

 

[alphatarget1]

Force all insurance policies to have at least 20% co-pay.

 

[Engineer]

I just had double hernia surgery. The 4 office visits and 5 hours in the surgery center (2 hours of actual surgery) costs over $17,000 (as billed by the clinic). They have paid 2.5 claims and denied the other 2.5 (this was 24 weeks ago). I have paid just over $1,500 out of pocket not counting my 20% of the unpaid claims.

My company and I pay a combined 12 * 1,150 ($13,800) for this per year (family of 4). This is the 3rd time I've been to the doctor in 10 years (two were surgeries) but my family uses it sparingly ($25 copays for regular office visits and $600 deductible per person + 20% after that with $3,000 max out of pocket).

 

[Jakeisbest]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Force all insurance policies to have at least 20% co-pay.

Seems high, I would have stayed at home and suffered rather than paying $800 for my time at the hospital.

But I am thinking something similar like a 2% or 5% co payment. I bet that would lower some health care costs!

Would it be cool to have a coupon for your next ambulance ride!?!?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Force all insurance policies to have at least 20% co-pay.

Do you have 150,000 or more to pay for chemotherapy?

 

[Jakeisbest]

Originally posted by: Engineer
I just had double hernia surgery. The 4 office visits and 5 hours in the surgery center (2 hours of actual surgery) costs over $17,000 (as billed by the clinic). They have paid 2.5 claims and denied the other 2.5 (this was 24 weeks ago). I have paid just over $1,500 out of pocket not counting my 20% of the unpaid claims.

My company and I pay a combined 12 * 1,150 ($13,800) for this per year (family of 4). This is the 3rd time I've been to the doctor in 10 years (two were surgeries) but my family uses it sparingly ($25 copays for regular office visits and $600 deductible per person + 20% after that with $3,000 max out of pocket).

That seems crazy! Also totally unfair. They could have quoted you some kind of price before hand you could have explored your options (well for a bit at least with a hernia you have some time before you get operated on).

You know what I mean. I mean if I am charging some one to do a tax return I tell them its gonna cost like $800 bucks then if they are something unforeseen comes up I have to call and explain to them the extra work I am going to do and why they need to pay more.

It's crazy that all this work gets done then a bill arrives for $20,000!

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest
Here is part of an NPR story which was on the raido:

NPR's Julie Rovner says Len Nichols, an economist with the New America Foundation, made the same point to her recently. Nichols puts the price tag at $1.6 trillion over ten years.


Here is my story:

I have a good job and good insurance (anthem blue cross HMO).

Last Friday I had a Gal stone. My girl friend drove me to my local hospital, I paid a $100 deductible.

I received: 2 (very wonderful) shots of morphine, 2 bags of saline (to hydrate me after puking all day), I got an ultrasound of my stomach area (I have having kittens btw) to locate the stone, finally I was release after the stone passed and I didn't need any more pain meds (I spent about 7 hours in the ER)).

THAT is a shit load of service for only $100!

I have no idea how much any of that really costs. I have no idea if maybe the other hospital close to my house is cheaper than the one I went to. I don't know if I could have asked for a different type of similar treatment that would have cost less.

If I had to pay even 2% of the total cost I probably would have thought about what treatments were offered and what hospital I went to.

Yeah, you were puking all day and in horrible pain. You were really in a position to make rational financial choices.

You know, if my one of my parents has a heart attack, I think I'll call up hospitals and paramedics and haggle a little bit. Seems like a good free market solution!

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest

Originally posted by: Engineer
I just had double hernia surgery. The 4 office visits and 5 hours in the surgery center (2 hours of actual surgery) costs over $17,000 (as billed by the clinic). They have paid 2.5 claims and denied the other 2.5 (this was 24 weeks ago). I have paid just over $1,500 out of pocket not counting my 20% of the unpaid claims.

My company and I pay a combined 12 * 1,150 ($13,800) for this per year (family of 4). This is the 3rd time I've been to the doctor in 10 years (two were surgeries) but my family uses it sparingly ($25 copays for regular office visits and $600 deductible per person + 20% after that with $3,000 max out of pocket).

That seems crazy! Also totally unfair. They could have quoted you some kind of price before hand you could have explored your options (well for a bit at least with a hernia you have some time before you get operated on).

You know what I mean. I mean if I am charging some one to do a tax return I tell them its gonna cost like $800 bucks then if they are something unforeseen comes up I have to call and explain to them the extra work I am going to do and why they need to pay more.

It's crazy that all this work gets done then a bill arrives for $20,000!

Like I've said, I have paid over $1,500 out of pocket. I was quoted that I would pay $1,106 on the 3 phone calls I made before I went in. I'm estimating that it will top $2,000 out of pocket before all is said and done, assuming they pay the other claims. If not and I'm responsible, it will top well over $7,000. I'll be damned if I pay for covered charges so AETNA better pony up the money (before the clinic gets tired of it and bills me) or there will be hell to pay (if that means an attorney, then so be it).

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Force all insurance policies to have at least 20% co-pay.

Do you have 150,000 or more to pay for chemotherapy?

No, but maybe having a minimum copay for all policies will force people to live healthier since they wouldn't be able to afford the expensive procedures. No more stomach bypass when fat people live healthier, it's a win-win!

If cancer is curable, and you'd still live a productive life after recovery, I don't see why the government couldn't set up some sort of loan for people to pay it off.

If you smoke 10 packs a day and you get cancer, why should I have to pay for your poor life decisions?

It's a gross simplification, of course, but the point is that people need to have some skin in paying for procedures. We can't give everyone the best and most advanced treatment for every kind of disease, period. 10-20 years ago the same people who were sick would've just died.

 

[Ackmed]

Tax payers pay for mine, so I dont need to know.

Thanks to all!

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Force all insurance policies to have at least 20% co-pay.

Do you have 150,000 or more to pay for chemotherapy?

No, but maybe having a minimum copay for all policies will force people to live healthier since they wouldn't be able to afford the expensive procedures. No more stomach bypass when fat people live healthier, it's a win-win!

If cancer is curable, and you'd still live a productive life after recovery, I don't see why the government couldn't set up some sort of loan for people to pay it off.

If you smoke 10 packs a day and you get cancer, why should I have to pay for your poor life decisions?

It's a gross simplification, of course, but the point is that people need to have some skin in paying for procedures. We can't give everyone the best and most advanced treatment for every kind of disease, period. 10-20 years ago the same people who were sick would've just died.

what you are saying is that: My family should be millions in debt because my mother had cancer and suffered for years and years, and died? rather than her insurance covering most of the cost, she had very good insurance from her employer.

and

if you get really sick we should just let you die because it would cost too much to save you? do you want this theory applied to your family and friends?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Force all insurance policies to have at least 20% co-pay.

Do you have 150,000 or more to pay for chemotherapy?

No, but maybe having a minimum copay for all policies will force people to live healthier since they wouldn't be able to afford the expensive procedures. No more stomach bypass when fat people live healthier, it's a win-win!

If cancer is curable, and you'd still live a productive life after recovery, I don't see why the government couldn't set up some sort of loan for people to pay it off.

If you smoke 10 packs a day and you get cancer, why should I have to pay for your poor life decisions?

It's a gross simplification, of course, but the point is that people need to have some skin in paying for procedures. We can't give everyone the best and most advanced treatment for every kind of disease, period. 10-20 years ago the same people who were sick would've just died.

You do realize that the vast majority of cancers come from people who lead normal lives? Lung cancer is only a smart portion of the cancer pie.

Your post is pretty much fail all around. Every other developed country is able to provide care to all it's citizens for less money than what we spend.

 

[blackangst1]

Last year I had a very bad appendectomy...2 days in hosp, $18,000 bill or so, paid $350.00

 

[Deadtrees]

Having lived in a country that public has health care, this shit is U.S is not something I can ever understand. What is even hard to understand is how there're people who are against the public health care reform.
I'm just glad that I never got sick in U.S

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest
Here is part of an NPR story which was on the raido:

NPR's Julie Rovner says Len Nichols, an economist with the New America Foundation, made the same point to her recently. Nichols puts the price tag at $1.6 trillion over ten years.


Here is my story:

I have a good job and good insurance (anthem blue cross HMO).

Last Friday I had a Gal stone. My girl friend drove me to my local hospital, I paid a $100 deductible.

I received: 2 (very wonderful) shots of morphine, 2 bags of saline (to hydrate me after puking all day), I got an ultrasound of my stomach area (I have having kittens btw) to locate the stone, finally I was release after the stone passed and I didn't need any more pain meds (I spent about 7 hours in the ER)).

THAT is a shit load of service for only $100!

I have no idea how much any of that really costs. I have no idea if maybe the other hospital close to my house is cheaper than the one I went to. I don't know if I could have asked for a different type of similar treatment that would have cost less.

If I had to pay even 2% of the total cost I probably would have thought about what treatments were offered and what hospital I went to.

Yeah, you were puking all day and in horrible pain. You were really in a position to make rational financial choices.

You know, if my one of my parents has a heart attack, I think I'll call up hospitals and paramedics and haggle a little bit. Seems like a good free market solution!

For reasons like this the medical industry should not be part of the free market. They don't play by the same rules now either out of choice or because they can't. Single payer UHC ftw. It makes economic sense and is more fiscally responsible if implemented correctly as shown by other western nations.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: herm0016

what you are saying is that: My family should be millions in debt because my mother had cancer and suffered for years and years, and died? rather than her insurance covering most of the cost, she had very good insurance from her employer.

and

if you get really sick we should just let you die because it would cost too much to save you? do you want this theory applied to your family and friends?

That's not what I mean. I'm not a policy maker and I don't know the details. I'm just saying in general if people had to pay some out of pocket costs, they would think twice about asking their doctors to do all kinds of unnecessary tests.

People wouldn't care if their insurance paid for every single test in full. That's part of the problem. I'm not saying that cancer patients with a very good chance of survival should get into millions of dollars in debt. I'm merely addressing OP's concern that people who are well insured don't know/don't care how much medical procedures cost them as long as they don't have to pay.

 

[DaveJ]

Originally posted by: herm0016

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Force all insurance policies to have at least 20% co-pay.

Do you have 150,000 or more to pay for chemotherapy?

No, but maybe having a minimum copay for all policies will force people to live healthier since they wouldn't be able to afford the expensive procedures. No more stomach bypass when fat people live healthier, it's a win-win!

If cancer is curable, and you'd still live a productive life after recovery, I don't see why the government couldn't set up some sort of loan for people to pay it off.

If you smoke 10 packs a day and you get cancer, why should I have to pay for your poor life decisions?

It's a gross simplification, of course, but the point is that people need to have some skin in paying for procedures. We can't give everyone the best and most advanced treatment for every kind of disease, period. 10-20 years ago the same people who were sick would've just died.

what you are saying is that: My family should be millions in debt because my mother had cancer and suffered for years and years, and died? rather than her insurance covering most of the cost, she had very good insurance from her employer.

and

if you get really sick we should just let you die because it would cost too much to save you? do you want this theory applied to your family and friends?

Quoted for the motherfucking truth.

Not all healthcare stems from unhealthy choices, some of us don't have a choice at all. I have a condition that is treatable but not curable, and the only effective treatment involves surgery when things go wrong. By alpha's estimation I should have just died at birth rather than racking up massive bills every time I go in for surgery (the last round of bills 9 years ago was about 50 grand, including 3 surgeries and multiple trips to the ER over a period of about a month).

BTW, my "wonderful" insurance coverage was almost completely pointless... the insurance co. denied my claims for the first two surgeries (done back to back over a 24hr period), and then outright denied me a third surgery when my shunt failed again a week later and my neurosurgeon was out of town. Meanwhile I'm in excruciating pain and puking my guts out for about 12-15 hours each day, and getting multi-thousand dollar medical bills in the mail. Not exactly an experience I'm eager to repeat.

 

[DaveJ]

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest
Here is part of an NPR story which was on the raido:

NPR's Julie Rovner says Len Nichols, an economist with the New America Foundation, made the same point to her recently. Nichols puts the price tag at $1.6 trillion over ten years.


Here is my story:

I have a good job and good insurance (anthem blue cross HMO).

Last Friday I had a Gal stone. My girl friend drove me to my local hospital, I paid a $100 deductible.

I received: 2 (very wonderful) shots of morphine, 2 bags of saline (to hydrate me after puking all day), I got an ultrasound of my stomach area (I have having kittens btw) to locate the stone, finally I was release after the stone passed and I didn't need any more pain meds (I spent about 7 hours in the ER)).

THAT is a shit load of service for only $100!

I have no idea how much any of that really costs. I have no idea if maybe the other hospital close to my house is cheaper than the one I went to. I don't know if I could have asked for a different type of similar treatment that would have cost less.

If I had to pay even 2% of the total cost I probably would have thought about what treatments were offered and what hospital I went to.

I've got a good job and decent insurance as well (Cigna HMO), but your idea of "choices" makes me laugh. When I inquired a few years ago about seeing a neurosurgeon regarding my hydrocephalus (my old NS had retired a few years earlier), my insurance company picked a doctor for me - I had absolutely zero say in the matter. That doctor works out of one hospital, so there's no choice there either. Once I'm on the table I'm hardly going to ask the anesthesiologist if he's got any specials going on, I just get whoever they give me and hope for the best. This whole notion that "choice" is somehow going to solve our problems is pure folly.

Get the profit motive out of healthcare, and you'll see costs go down. Not to mention that a true single-payer system, even if it's difficult to deal with, means that a doctor only has to deal with one company's arcane procedures, rather than tens or hundreds.

 

[IronWing]

Ambulance x2 + ER x2 + overnight in hospital for observation earlier this year:
Submitted bills: $5,880
Insurance negotiated rate: $4,649
Insurance covered $3,665
Out of pocket: $984

Annual premiums (employee + employer): $10,055

AZ has a state law forbidding insurance companies from negotiating rates w/ ambulance companies. Cost of ambulance: $2,069 or 45% of total.

 

[Pliablemoose]

If you go to a hospital and ask what it costs for an appendectomy the way you would ask a mechanic what it would cost for a new transmission, they just look at you like you're crazy.

If they're a PPO for your insurance company, they have one set of negotiated prices, if they're not a PPO, it's another set, and if you pay cash, they charge you the most... of the 3 quotes.

I've worked for hospitals that charge for boxes of tissues, and hospitals that don't track anything......

I look at my bills very carefully, and have found many inappropriate charges, brought them up to my ins company, and had the hospital, ins company and myself on a conference call asking things like "why did you charge me for 3 urine culture & sensitivities in the same day at $200 a pop?" The billing person (usually someone that has no freaking clue bout what goes on) just mumbles............. And my ins company could care less.

http://www.usa-healthinsurance...tesonHospitalCosts.pdf

 

[DrPizza]

Yes, I know how much my employer pays for my health care. I receive a statement each year describing all such payments made on my behalf, so I have a better idea of my true salary. Dr. visits & prescription copays are $10. Since my wife works at the local hospital, any other foreseeable copays are written off. No deductibles or percents that I have to pay. Plus, I have $500 put into a flex plan to pay for my copays. So, unless I have 50 Dr visits and/or prescriptions, I have plenty to put toward new glasses & stuff.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Yes, unforetunately I do and it makes me ill. And my employer just notified us that our health care costs are going up 17.5% jan 1:|

I currently pay just over $800/mo and my employer kicks in almost $1200/mo for a total of 23.5k per year for a 90/70 PPO plan for my wife and I. And thats here in the great state of Texas where we have passed that Republican holy grail of tort reform capping malpractice awards at $250k.

I'm sure the company will pass on more of the cost increase to us again this year, I've been with this company for 5yrs and my insurance premiums increases have almost completely consumed all the pay raises I have gotten during that period.

 

[Tequila]

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest
Here is part of an NPR story which was on the raido:

NPR's Julie Rovner says Len Nichols, an economist with the New America Foundation, made the same point to her recently. Nichols puts the price tag at $1.6 trillion over ten years.


Here is my story:

I have a good job and good insurance (anthem blue cross HMO).

Last Friday I had a Gal stone. My girl friend drove me to my local hospital, I paid a $100 deductible.

I received: 2 (very wonderful) shots of morphine, 2 bags of saline (to hydrate me after puking all day), I got an ultrasound of my stomach area (I have having kittens btw) to locate the stone, finally I was release after the stone passed and I didn't need any more pain meds (I spent about 7 hours in the ER)).

THAT is a shit load of service for only $100!

I have no idea how much any of that really costs. I have no idea if maybe the other hospital close to my house is cheaper than the one I went to. I don't know if I could have asked for a different type of similar treatment that would have cost less.

If I had to pay even 2% of the total cost I probably would have thought about what treatments were offered and what hospital I went to.

When you get the EOB you'll know how much everything costs I'm also on Anthem Blue Cross but the PPO, not HMO. As I outlined in a different thread I only had to pay $510 out of a $20,000 bill last year for a knee surgery. I've had zero problems with Anthem and can also review all my previous EOBs online.

EDIT: I went online and forgot about the MRI I had done before the surgery. I had to pay $250 out of $1100 for that because at that time I had not used any of my deductible. So total payments for my MRI + surgery was $760.

I really wish all you guys had my plan because I pay $480 a year for excellent insurance with a low $250 deductible(employer pays $4500). It does make me sad to hear about insurance companies coming up with horrible excuses not to pay for your surgery/treatments. I guess I've been pretty lucky all around because I've had various flavors of Blue Cross/Blue Shield and Kaiser for the past 20 years over 6 different employers and have none of the problems of delayed/denied payments that people here have described.