Who here thinks that the US is spiraling towards a third world country status?

[Kwaipie]

Americans do not eat Boar Anus. When that becomes a delicacy in the USA, we'll talk.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Don't know if this is appropriate here, if not move.

Discuss.

Yep, P&N. -Anandtech Moderator DrPizza

Not by any means.

Thought Washington seems hell bent on stifling the American people I think we are more resilent than they or we suspect.

What will make us a 3rd world country is having federal and local governments of such size that they become a drag on the economy. I think the Federal government is already at that level and many cities are as well. Its only a matter of time before the American people figure out that enough is enough and we have a real political revolution. Of course the Democrats and Republicans are changing election laws to prevent anyone from taking their power.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: yllus
You must have never visited a third world country. Amazing how ignorant some people who live here are of how truly desperate life is in some corners of the world.

In a word: No.

He did not claim the U.S. to be a third world nation. Although there are parts of this country that looked like they were up and pulled from there. I live in the Philippines for 10 years and even the poorest in the U.S. have it better than 90% of people there.

It is scary though to see an invasion of illegal immigrants that continue to push down wages. I don't think the U.S. is spiraling towards third world status... but as the middle class erodes and wealth becomes concentrated it may resemble something close in a generation.

You are conflating two separate issues which are important to keep separate I think. The middle class are not losing their jobs to illegal immigrants.

 

[TheSlamma]

Have you ever been to a 3rd world country? It would take a LOT of work to get that bad from where we are now.

 

[kage69]

Spiraling? As in sudden, drastic, and out-of-control? No. Gradually slipping from our place of global dominance? Yes.


And it will continue so long as we enable corporate welfare and neuter our education system with antiquated vacation periods, political correctness, and religious pseudo-science.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: yllus
You must have never visited a third world country. Amazing how ignorant some people who live here are of how truly desperate life is in some corners of the world.

In a word: No.

He did not claim the U.S. to be a third world nation. Although there are parts of this country that looked like they were up and pulled from there. I live in the Philippines for 10 years and even the poorest in the U.S. have it better than 90% of people there.

It is scary though to see an invasion of illegal immigrants that continue to push down wages. I don't think the U.S. is spiraling towards third world status... but as the middle class erodes and wealth becomes concentrated it may resemble something close in a generation.

You are conflating two separate issues which are important to keep separate I think. The middle class are not losing their jobs to illegal immigrants.

Middle class, not too much. But Lower class are losing their jobs to illegal immigrants.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: yllus
You must have never visited a third world country. Amazing how ignorant some people who live here are of how truly desperate life is in some corners of the world.

In a word: No.

He did not claim the U.S. to be a third world nation. Although there are parts of this country that looked like they were up and pulled from there. I live in the Philippines for 10 years and even the poorest in the U.S. have it better than 90% of people there.

It is scary though to see an invasion of illegal immigrants that continue to push down wages. I don't think the U.S. is spiraling towards third world status... but as the middle class erodes and wealth becomes concentrated it may resemble something close in a generation.

You are conflating two separate issues which are important to keep separate I think. The middle class are not losing their jobs to illegal immigrants.

Middle class, not too much. But Lower class are losing their jobs to illegal immigrants.

That?s not the problem that will take the US in to third world contingency;

The problem as I pointed out in the link in my first post in this thread, it is we will soon be virtually with out a middle class which is the heart and backbone of the US and when it goes so goes the US.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: sandorski
It seems to be headed to Post-Empire Europe. That being a decline, but not collapse. Still maintaining a high standard of living, but not at its' highest.

Correct. The US have just entered the declining phase of their history, and just like any other super-power before they will decline as a new super-power gains the center of the stage.

But, the British empire didn't turn into a third world country, nor did France after Napoleon and Spain before it. Super-powers rise and decline, but what follows are mature countries with developed economies and strong political institutions.

Third world countries are so for a long series of reasons, many of which include some active interference by super-powers of the past and the present. But none of them was one a developed country which declined to third-wold standards of living.

So, no: the US is not spiraling towards third world status. Just slowly losing its primacy.

 

[rpanic]

I was in New Orleans a few years before the area got flooded. There were parts were I saw children in groups half dozen or more that ranged from 6 to 15 years old covered in filth running by tourists and shop tables trying to grab anything they could like wild animals. It was just like something you would see in a poor area of Brazil. There clothing was tattered it really blew me away to see kids like that here. I saw multiple groups like this they almost seemed feral.

 

[IGBT]

..too late. already happened. we'll stop supporting the infrastructure soon and donkeys and burros will be our transportation.

 

[StageLeft]

Not spiralling. It is changing and overall I think it's slipping, but it is so far ahead of every other nation that it has a long way to slip before being even tied for second (although some here surely think that Paraguay is better, but they're stupid).

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Not spiralling. It is changing and overall I think it's slipping, but it is so far ahead of every other nation that it has a long way to slip before being even tied for second (although some here surely think that Paraguay is better, but they're stupid).

First or second in what? There are a lot of countries where average quality of life is higher than in the US (of course not Paraguay), but that has nothing ado with the countries' economic, political and military power.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
Americans do not eat Boar Anus. When that becomes a delicacy in the USA, we'll talk.

I guess you never had a hot dog....

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: sandorski
It seems to be headed to Post-Empire Europe. That being a decline, but not collapse. Still maintaining a high standard of living, but not at its' highest.

Correct. The US have just entered the declining phase of their history, and just like any other super-power before they will decline as a new super-power gains the center of the stage.

But, the British empire didn't turn into a third world country, nor did France after Napoleon and Spain before it. Super-powers rise and decline, but what follows are mature countries with developed economies and strong political institutions.

Third world countries are so for a long series of reasons, many of which include some active interference by super-powers of the past and the present. But none of them was one a developed country which declined to third-wold standards of living.

So, no: the US is not spiraling towards third world status. Just slowly losing its primacy.

That's a very good point, when has a superpower ever become a 3rd world country? Never thought of that.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Don't know if this is appropriate here, if not move.

Discuss.

Yep, P&N. -Anandtech Moderator DrPizza

You have obviously never seen or imagined a 3rd world country.

 

[bobdelt]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
China threatening to throw us into absolute bankruptcy, few true remaining allies, new enemies everyday, Industry leaving like they are trying to be the last one to hold the bill, unstable market, questionable healthcare..

I am not saying we are spiraling anywhere near third world but we are certainly threatened to losing a great deal of our glory and power. We may think we are untouchable but china currently has a weapon that would devestate us much more than any nuclear arsenal, not to mention would leave us wide open to such an attack. Think we'd be able to fend for ourselves while in a massive depression?

Err... how exactly is china doing that?

 

[ProfJohn]

You need to watch one of those Sally Struthers infomercials and then get back to us?

Our standard of living is SO much higher than much of the world that you can?t even begin to compare them. Our ?working poor? tend to live better life styles than many middle class people in Europe. We have bigger houses, more cars etc etc.
About the only thing the Europeans have on us is more time off and free healthcare.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
You need to watch one of those Sally Struthers infomercials and then get back to us?

Our standard of living is SO much higher than much of the world that you can?t even begin to compare them. Our ?working poor? tend to live better life styles than many middle class people in Europe. We have bigger houses, more cars etc etc.
About the only thing the Europeans have on us is more time off and free healthcare.

Well, actually no. As somebody who lives half of the year in the US and half in Europe it's quite clear to me that the middle-class is better off in Europe. On contrast the top 10% is richer in the US.

It's a matter of different policies and (most important) cultures. It' much easier in the US to become a Billionare due to comparatively easier access to capital and lower taxation.

But the middle class has a higher standard of living in France, Germany or Switzerland compared to the US, especially when you consider the hours worked. When you write "more time off" you are not considering the economic value of this. The phenomenon of double or triple jobs or 80 hrs/week jobs is non-existent in Europe, in fact it is illegal in many countries.

Cars and houses is not a good way to measure consumption as they depends on many factors. Real estate is cheap in the US, and extremely expensive in Europe. Also, in fact, if you consider what people own (opposed to rent) you'd find that home ownership is higher in many European countries compared to the US, especially for middle income people.

Cars depends on the way people live. In the US you basically cannot live without a car. Even for going shopping you often need to drive several miles, while in Europe everything is close and people avoid using a car as much as they can. Almost nobody I know in Paris, Milan or London owns a car because they have no use for it, just like I don't own a car because I have no use for it in New York City.

But again, products can't be used to assess richness because they depend on the lifestyle people have. Europeans consume per capita much more luxury products, not because they are richer but because they consider them a significant part of their lifestyle. They simply buy less stuff, but more expensive stuff.

What you should look at is household (thus excluding corporations) PPP-income corrected for the country Gini index of different countries, and you'll find out that the middle 50th percentile is actually better off compared to the US.

But again, to me it's not better nor worse. It's different. The US are the right place if you are an entrepreneur with a bright idea and dreams of being the next Bill Gates. But the average white collar or blue collar worker has much an easier life in Germany or France.

 

[Aimster]

U.S is trash

I am moving to Somali. I am going to get 100MB/s connection there. 0wned U.S.A

Thank you or this thread.

 

[babylon5]

Hey Canada is not bad. They got killer connection too.

 

[Drift3r]

In a third world nation the government caters to the power elite and foreign 1st world nations the rest of their citizens get crumbs.

In a third world nation a good education is extremely hard to find if you don't have the money to pay for it. In fact it is valued more in some cases over shelter or proper clothing.

In a third world nation you see packs of young children running around digging in land fills for food, stealing for food, living on the streets. Most of these kids have parents who have died because of war, drugs, or AIDS and the government does not give a crap about them period.

In a third world nation basic services like electricity, clean running water, trash pick up, paved roads, mail delivery etc..... are all considered to be luxuries. Hell you'd be lucky if the trains ran on time.

In a third world nation affordable prenatal care for expecting mothers is almost almost nil unless you are wealthy.

In a third world nation the child mortality rate for simple conditions such as diarrhea or the flue is obscene do to the expensive nature of medical care for most people who aren't rich.

I could go on and on.........Trust me we are not a third world nation. As YoungGun21 pointed out it'd take full out nuclear war to get us there.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: yllus
You must have never visited a third world country. Amazing how ignorant some people who live here are of how truly desperate life is in some corners of the world.

In a word: No.

I don't know about you yllus, but what do you consider these countries to be: Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippine, Brazil, Columbia, etc...?

There are obvious symptoms that are uncannily resembles what I'm seeing here at home. Separation of rich and poor, urban crime rate, education, poverty, etc... What do you call that?

If you take a walk in any of the urban cities of these aforementioned countries, they are no different than downtown LA, for examples. Then if you expand outward, they're not that much different at all. Now, I'm not doing a direct comparison, but I do see that while life in general are better in the US, still; it's starting to show symptoms.

That's why I ask.

Edit: Add Mexico, China? Vietnam?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...opment_Index#endnote_2

Take a look at it.

The only countries you listed that aren't in the "medium development" category are Mexico and Malaysia, and they are at the bottom of the high development list.

 

[Connoisseur]

no... just no. I'm in india right now and even the most developed cities here have so much shit (i'm talking about actual feces), crap and garbage on the streets and where people live it boggles my mind. Here's some fun facts:
1) My family lives in a very small very affluent cul de sac in chennai and we still have a mountain of garbage not 20 feet away from our house just sitting there on the street.
2) There's no "really nice area" here. At best, there's one or two clean, brand new buildings surrounded by horrific slums... the pattern repeats itself all over.
3) At best, the really upscale restaurants here would be considered middle of the road in the US; at worst... i'd post up a pic but the upload speeds here are only about 20k and i'm afraid you'd gouge your eyes out.
4) Every where you look there are poor, destitute beggars and pickpockets and everybody's out just to make a buck for themselves.
5) Water should NEVER be drunk straight from the tap; it's either boiling or bottled unless you want to risk dysentery.

Honestly, I didn't think it could get much worse until I went to Delhi and Rajisthan... oh... my... God. I'm Indian by descent but man am I embarrassed by this country. Honestly, after the British left all concern about one's country, environment and self-respect went out the window. Unless you're talking about New Orleans, there is NO PLACE in the US that even remotely approaches third world. Even if you're speaking about education, the US has it MUCH better.

 

[colonel]

I've been overseas in many countries, USA is the best .

 

[K1052]

No, not even remotely close. For christ's fucking sake we have an obesity epidemic (even among the lowest on the economic ladder). How many 3rd (or even 2nd) world nations have that particular problem?

Go take a tour of the central African nations and come on back to report how close we are to them.