Who is the greatest pitcher in history of MLB??

[jaydee]

Pedro Martinez with Gibson, Koufax behind. A lot of guys put up great numbers in their repective era's, but look at the hitting now in Pedro's day compared with Matthewson. The record for homers then was like 30 for a career. Now you hitters on steriods, creatine, along with vastly better conditioning and technology to drill hitters all year round. Pitchers, theres not much more you can do for them as strength, tech., don't help them. Conditioning will, but not much else. That's why Pedro is tops all-time. He does it when the average is ERA is 4.50, instead of 3.00 as was 60'-70's and even lower before them. You got to scale what everyone else does at the same time. There was half-dozen great ones at the same time up until the 90's. Now there's only one (debatably 2 with RJ).

 

[Double Trouble]

How could we all forget about the man himself, Cy Young? The award for the best pitcher is named for him for good reason. If you look at his stats, they are mind boggling. Yes, he played in the dead ball era, but even when you compare him to his peers in the dead ball era, he rocked.

Also, how about Luis Tiant, or maybe even Rube Waddel, Span and Sain (then pray for rain), Junkin' Jack Chesbro, and lastly, how about old Dutch Leonard, the man with the lowest ERA since 1900 (1.04).

Walter "Big Train" Johnson pitched at a time when guys like Jimmy "The Beast" or "Double X" Foxx, Ruth, the gashouse gang, etc etc played. Not too shaby. He was "clocked" at 90+ MPH (at that time they didn't have radar guns obviously, he was clocked using a motorcycle going 90MPH). Imagine that, most pitchers nowadays don't pitch 90MPH, and he not only did it, he did it day in and day out. No pitcher nowadays could get even close to pitching the same number of innings.

Yeah, it's a different game, you can't really compare through the ages, but there are a few people that stand out against their contemporates.

 

[dafatha00]

Must say Nolan Ryans.

 

[Red Dawn]

Let's not forget Bob Feller.

 

[1967mustangman]

The Christian Gentleman (Christy Matthewson) has to be one of the best up there with Cy Young and Nolan Ryan.

 

[GasX]

I'd like to point out that Steve "Lefty" Carlton was also one of the greatest.

He has a number of impressive statistics including:

20+ wins 6 times
4 Cy Young Awards
8 200+ strikeout seasons
1 300+ strikeout season

Hall of Fame numbers to be sure, but the greatest ever? Well, the most significant thing that reflects his true dominance are his numbers from 1972

W - 27
L - 10
K - 310
ERA - 1.97

That is pretty damn awesome in any season, but in 1972 the Phillies won only 59 games. Lefty won almost half of them. THAT is domination on the mound.

 

[Copperman]

No particular order

Nolan Ryan
Tom Seaver
Koufax
Walter Johnson
Paige
Ford

just to name a few there are many many awesome pitchers that has been
in the majors.....

 

[RedFox1]

Greg Maddux: His control is super-human.

Pedro Martinez: Nasty change-up, great control, and he's a funny guy to boot.

Nolan Ryan was a tough guy and a tough pitcher. However, although he may have led in strike-outs a lot, he led the league in walks quite a few times too.

-RedFox1

 

[bonkers325]

koufax
cy young

 

[nateholtrop]

Pedro and Satchel Paige

nate

 

[AznMaverick]

i think nolan ryan is the greatest

 

[monto]

gotta love Koufax, quiet excellence

 

[tbumpus]

Al Hrabosky.

 

[classy]

<< I'd like to point out that Steve &quot;Lefty&quot; Carlton was also one of the greatest.

He has a number of impressive statistics including:

20+ wins 6 times
4 Cy Young Awards
8 200+ strikeout seasons
1 300+ strikeout season

Hall of Fame numbers to be sure, but the greatest ever? Well, the most significant thing that reflects his true dominance are his numbers from 1972

W - 27
L - 10
K - 310
ERA - 1.97

That is pretty damn awesome in any season, but in 1972 the Phillies won only 59 games. Lefty won almost half of them. THAT is domination on the mound. >>



I think Lefty only won 3 Cy Youngs. Maybe I am wrong but I believe Maddux is your only 4 time winner in the National League.

*My fault he did win it 4 times. 72, 77, 80, 82

 

[Urinal Mint]

To pitch for 24 years in the modern era, that is damned impressive. At least give Nolan Ryan credit for longevity and dominating power throughout his entire career.

But right now, my vote for Best Ever goes to Rick Ankiel!

 

[GasX]

Carlton pitched for 24 years, too.

Back to 1972:

41 starts
27 wins
.730 winning percentage

1972 Phillies
59-97
.378 winning percentage

How happy was Frank Lucchesi(mgr) every day Lefty was on the mound?

 

[Chad]

Nolan Ryan

 

[TheKidd]

Well, a lot of people have stolen my Lefty Grove thunder. It was an absolute disgrace that Grove was not voted on to the All-Century Team by the fans, and had to be added to the team by a panel of experts. I would definetely say that Lefty Grove was the best ever, though there are convincing arguments for Walter Johnson and Christy Matthewson. That said, another thing that many people do not realize was that Grove spent a number of years playing for the Baltimore Orioles when they were a part of the international league. They refused to sell him to a major league team because he was so dominant. As a result, when looking at his career stats, you could easily add another two or three years of pure domination, which could have seperated him even further from the rest of the pack.

Arguments for Nolan Ryan as greatest pitcher ever are laughable. Sandy Koufax is not even close, because when compared to other pitchers of his era, his numbers appear far less amazing then if we looked at them in comparison to current pitchers, and he didn't pitch for nearly long enough. He was still a great pitcher, just not the best. If Pedro Martinez can keep up this level of dominance for a few more years, and finish his career with a number of strong, though not ungodly years, there is a very good chance that he will be considered the best ever. Even Greg Maddux can't even come close to what Pedro has done over the past three years. Finally, since I mentioned the All-Century Team earlier, the fans picking Ken Griffey, Jr. by a 4-1 margin over Barry Bonds is looking sillier and sillier by the day, isn't it?

 

[GasX]

I'll give a nod to Jim Palmer as well.

19 seasons with one team, the Orioles
3 Cy Youngs
8 20+ wins
2.86 career ERA

1973 was probably his best year
22-9 (.710)
2.40 ERA
19 complete games
158 K's
Cy Young award
AL MVP
6 shutouts

compare that to Pedro Martinez in 1999

23-4 (.852!)
2.07 ERA
5 complete games (things are different these days...)
313 K's
Cy Young award
1 shutout

He isn't a legend yet, but he will be...

 

[GasX]

There is a great little number on each players page at baseball-reference.com called &quot;HOF Monitor&quot;. It is a predictor of the likelihood someone is going to go into the Hall of Fame.

Here are the &quot;scores&quot; for some of the legends discussed above:
note - 130+ indicated likely HOF inductee

Koufax - 209.0
Ryan - 256.5
Carlton - 254.5
Mathewson - 281.0
Grove - 218.5
Johnson - 354.0
Gibson - 200.5
Palmer - 176.5
Ruth - 36.5 (it's 422 as a batter!)
Young - 325.0

Active Players (still accumulating points)

Martinez - 118.5
Maddux - 196.5
Clemens - 225.0

By this measure alone, Walter Johnson has the lead followed by Cy Young...

The scoring system is explained here.

 

[Argo]

<< He could easily be undefeated this year. >>



Actually, no cuz he already lost a game to yankees. But, I'd say he is by far the best active pitcher.

 

[Shmorq]

Also from Mwilding's recent 'analysis' of Palmer and Pedro, I believe the average runs per game were MUCH higher in the 90's than the 70's.

 

[GasX]

There is no question that Pedro Martinez is the most dominant pitcher in recent history. If he continues to pitch at this level, he will be one of the best pitchers EVER. My point in that comparison was that Jim Palmer is a legend and that Pedros best season blows his out of the water.

 

[eighthlight]

No Whitey Ford?

Whitey--that cracks me up. Yankees suck so bad...Go M's!

 

[ElFenix]

you gotta look at who ryan played for all those year... the two expansion teams, mets and astros, and the rangers, probably some others (don't remember) none of those teams were really very good (okay in 86 it was the mets and astros...)


well, for the money the rangers paid him, it should be A-Rod... wait... he don't pitch. doh!