Discussion Who takes ULTIMATE blame for Afghanistan fiasco? Does Biden deserve full blame? Other President?

[senseamp]

Biden deserves credit for getting US out of Afghanistan.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Good day ladies and gentlemen. A new topic to discuss today.

Disclaimer*********

I am NOT from USA. I am a foreigner simply trying to be objective and create a discussion about the whole Afghanistan mess. With that said, I have no loyalties to any US political parties.

Alright, as for you Americans please try and be objective in how we approach this question. Let us put the blame in an objective manner if we can?

I will ask some questions for us to ponder about who gets the ultimate blame.

1) Was USA justified in invading Afghanistan? Could it have been handled another way?

2) Why did Bush shift focus on a false flag war when Taliban were on the ropes? Why didn't Bush send the same men and equipment like in the Iraqi invasion to finally destroy the Taliban or chase them out of the Country? Could Bush have won the war in the early stages but screwed it up instead?

3) For the Trump supporters here. Why didn't Trump pull the troops out under his watch? Trump had 5 years to do it. Did he pass the buck to Biden on purpose knowing it would be a failure in some way? No withdrawals are ever clean and easy to do in war zones.

Yes, we can criticize many things done wrong under Biden watch concerning the withdrawal. Was it always doomed to failure? I mean not like he could take back all the weapons from Afghan Army thinking they would mostly fall into Taliban hands. One would assume any President would expect Afghan Army to fight it out with US supplied weapons right? Not complete defeat and surrender in weeks right?

Does the ULTIMATE blame go to George Bush? Could Bush have won it in the early stages with an Iraqi style surge? Was every other President doomed to failure after Bush left as President? Would Trump have done a PERFECT withdrawal or done right way whatever that means?

What do you all think?

1) It should've been planned and executed as a "police action" without the ambition of "nation-building." Both of the Iraq wars, which you mentioned, could've been avoided. As I understand, the war in the early 1990s resulted from a diplomatic error by Ambassador April Glespie. And there was no justification for Bush Jr.'s 2003 invasion, but factions within the GOP who either wanted lower oil prices or higher oil prices -- IRaq supposedly being the 2nd largest oil deposit in the world known at that time.

We squandered more than $3 trillion on the 2nd Iraq War. There was no net benefit for it, given the price-tag.

The problem of getting into a war is ultimately the problem of getting out of it, if it hadn't been the reluctant but necessary multi-lateral effort made for "necessary" wars. If the Afghanistan engagement continued through the Obama years, it was due to these factors of saving national reputation and making the sunk cost of war to count for something.

But if Trump just decided to extricate us, he should not have made arrangements directly with the Taliban leaving the Afghan government out of the loop. What would've happened if he'd won a second term in office? Probably the same thing that happened when Biden made the withdrawal that Trump should've taken responsibility for.

And Trump never took responsibility for anything in his life. He probably went to a military school in his high-school years because he'd already done something criminal, for which any average kid would've instead served time at the Chino Gladiator Academy or some other facility. He never had a real job: he worked for his father.

So you say you are a "foreigner"? You pose useful questions. And I'm ashamed of what my country has become, when I remember what citizens were like here after World War II. The culture has changed, the respect for institutions and law has declined, and everyone thinks their ignorant, untutored opinions are as good as any.

I think a lot of people in this country could use a good, solid, roundhouse smack in the face. Or maybe two or three.

But I'm too old, and have too much to lose. I can't afford to wind up in the slammer for assault -- or -- perhaps -- even murder. Not in the dwindling time of my sunset years.

 

[HomerJS]

Biden deserves credit for getting US out of Afghanistan.

We were losing about 1.5 soldiers/month before Biden took over. We lost 11 in the evacuation. If he had stayed we would have lost around 20 at a minimum. That does not include stepped up Taliban attacks,

 

[BonzaiDuck]

There is a reason, going back to Alexander the Great, why they call Afghanistan the "graveyard of civilizations".

 

[cytg111]

I disagree. You came to Afghanistan, we came to Afghanistan, and promised hearts and minds to win the locals over. And it worked too.
Fucking Pakistan. Then you go kill these bitches in Pakistan if they’re harboring these assholes.
To my mind this is Trump and the Kurds again. The second Trump declared its over, the Taliban started rallying and waiting the clock out… thats why you had the chaos those last days.

We told someone we’re their allies and we burned them. Shame on us.
I really hoped Biden would reverse that shit. He didnt.

The idea that its their country so its their problem is problematic at best. Ok, then stop selling them weapons and weapon systems. Everybody stop (good luck with that). The days where the common folk could overturn the King with torches and pitchforks are LONG gone.
These people will never topple their oppressors, they had one hope, and that hope fucked right off.

So I guess its back acid in eyes of little girls if they look at a book.

99% Trump, 1% Biden.

Obama did the right thing.

 

[BoomerD]

No matter how the war turned out, no matter how it ended, the blame for Afghanistan falls fully on the shoulders of GW Bush. If he hadn't taken his eye off the ball and sent our troops into Iraq, the Afghani war would have (most likely) been over in a year or less.

 

[senseamp]

We were losing about 1.5 soldiers/month before Biden took over. We lost 11 in the evacuation. If he had stayed we would have lost around 20 at a minimum. That does not include stepped up Taliban attacks,

Exactly. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough.

 

[Remobz]

No matter how the war turned out, no matter how it ended, the blame for Afghanistan falls fully on the shoulders of GW Bush. If he hadn't taken his eye off the ball and sent our troops into Iraq, the Afghani war would have (most likely) been over in a year or less.

Exactly!! Iraqi invasion had NATO Army numbering over 600,000 men more or less. And a crap load of military equipment. Imagine that force along with the ones already in Afghanistan. That war would of bene over quickly. Alas, Bush started an illegal war and we will never know the real outcome.

Now, Russia and the world uses Iraq and Afghanistan to criticize USA. A big stain on the Country. One other person here thinks Rumsfeld was the real culprit and I tend to agree with that. Rumsfeld was like the puppet master of sorts.