Who thinks the gov't shouldn't have ended segregation?

[jonks]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN
But I do I think that a government must be tolerant of bigotry. Bigots are American too, and you simply can not force people to drop their prejudices.
Prejudice is a lot like religion. People believe in their brand of it despite what reason tells them, so no amount of arguing can ever change that. Trying to force them to change quickly becomes a form of tyranny.
I learnt from my dad that you can never change a bigot; you can only strive to create a community that does not include them. The government?s job is to assure that it does not cause or support bigotry, not force us to all be tolerant at gunpoint.

Maybe we should start a new thread for this topic, this thread is getting a little long anyway.

Trying to parse out what you are saying here and not having much luck. We shouldn't desegregate schools because we can't make people tolerant? We shouldn't ban homeowners from selling only to a particular race? We should allow employers to discriminate against women?

No, we cannot change people's bigoted thoughts at gunpoint, but what we sure as shit can do is require them not to ACT bigoted where it negatively effects other people.

Bigotry breeds and thrives by virtue of ignorance. If you force people to mix socially, you diminish the ignorance, and eventually diminish the bigotry. Maybe it takes a generation or two, or three. But you have to start somewhere, and being "tolerant of bigotry" is not a good policy.

 

[sactoking]

*****!!!!!!!

Seriously, I wish America had never been desegregated. I hate sharing my drinking fountains and bathrooms with Franco-Canadian-Americans. (They're so dirty!)

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: jonks

Bigotry breeds and thrives by virtue of ignorance. If you force people to mix socially, you diminish the ignorance, and eventually diminish the bigotry. Maybe it takes a generation or two, or three. But you have to start somewhere, and being "tolerant of bigotry" is not a good policy.

And sometimes it does the exact opposite.

Drop a Section 8 house into an otherwise nice calm quiet suburb. You can bet your ass what peoples opinion and views of "Section 8 people" will be real quick.

The only segregation I support is class segregation. To term it "white flight" is a bit overdramatic. It should really be called "middle class flight", but that doesnt roll off the tongue nearly as well does it?

The real problem is all too often economic classes are viewed racially, for right or wrong.

 

[MikeyLSU]

maybe not to that extreme, but where we are now, yes I think people need to leave it be.

I'm talking about affirmative action, hate crimes...

If 2 people are murdered, but 1 is black, don't charge that one worse than the other because you want to define it as a hate crime.

I believe it is time we start becoming equal, it will not happen overnight, but trying to force it will not make it go any faster, may even slow it down.

Should the government have desegregated? yes.

 

[nageov3t]

let the free market decide, those blacks aren't forbidden from eating, just eating with whites.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: jonks

Bigotry breeds and thrives by virtue of ignorance. If you force people to mix socially, you diminish the ignorance, and eventually diminish the bigotry. Maybe it takes a generation or two, or three. But you have to start somewhere, and being "tolerant of bigotry" is not a good policy.

And sometimes it does the exact opposite.

Drop a Section 8 house into an otherwise nice calm quiet suburb. You can bet your ass what peoples opinion and views of "Section 8 people" will be real quick.

The only segregation I support is class segregation. To term it "white flight" is a bit overdramatic. It should really be called "middle class flight", but that doesnt roll off the tongue nearly as well does it?

The real problem is all too often economic classes are viewed racially, for right or wrong.

Even Class Segregation is stupid. Any kind of Segregation breeds discontent and bigotry.

 

[StageLeft]

I am not a nihilist, and so I like to take the stance at times that I know best. By extension, sometimes others know best, too.

 

[NeoV]

Segregation - by class, appearance, or otherwise, to some degree, is natural, but keeping people off of buses, out of schools, based on the color of their skin was completely ridiculous.

 

[EXman]

well your bigoted agaisnt Christians and pretty much anyone that disagrees with you.

Lib

LIB

LIB



and yes I protect your right to be a bigot because in America you have the right to be as stupid and pigheaded as you want to be. So when you are Offensive in your blantant use of taking Christ's name in vain to provoke others I defend that right as an American no matter how despicable I think you are as a human being.

Lib Lib


sorry inside joke

Lib

 

[Linux23]

ATPN closeted racists arriving in 3, 2, 1....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There isn't anything in the post you quoted that says that segregation is good or desired. If a black or a gay wants to sit down in a restaurant, that's how it is. My sense is that what it's referring to is the promotion of "newspeak" and "doublespeak". My other alias elsewhere, Winston Smith, would not embrace that concept. So yes, you are going to have to tolerate people who don't think "correctly".

 

[piasabird]

So how would you know if a guy you never met and sits next to your table is gay? Not all gays advertise. They would have to be play-acting gay for you to know. It would be obvious maybe if to people of the same sex sat down and started french kissing, but most people are not that obvious all the time.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: EXman
well your bigoted agaisnt Christians and pretty much anyone that disagrees with you.

and yes I protect your right to be a bigot because in America you have the right to be as stupid and pigheaded as you want to be. So when you are Offensive in your blantant use of taking Christ's name in vain to provoke others I defend that right as an American no matter how despicable I think you are as a human being.

Every time you post you display another facet of your ignorance, so please keep going. You really need to look up bigotry and discrimination in the dictionary because it's very difficult to progress in a dialogue with someone who doesn't have even a basic understanding of such concepts.

See, you think me "taking christ's name in vain" makes me a bigot. Sorry, but it doesn't, any more than you saying you think jews or athiests are going to burn in hell makes you a bigot. I'm free to think that any particular religious belief system is stupid, and that doesn't make me a bigot either.

I don't think a person deserves less protection under the law because of their religion or lack of it. I don't think the government should be able to discriminate against someone because of their religion or lack of it.

I happen to think you are an idiot because contrary to common knowledge today you believe sexuality is a choice. I think you are an idiot because your "logic" includes gems such as "there is no discrimination with prop 8, gay men can marry any woman they want." You think that because I think you are an idiot, that demonstrates that I am a bigot, when really all it does is show that I'm observant.

 

[Pastore]

Bigots ARE tolerated. Bigots can go around all day spewing their shit, and do they get arrested? NO.

People can believe or say whatever they want. I know a lot of bigots, but NONE of them are violent.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: loki8481
let the free market decide, those blacks aren't forbidden from eating, just eating with whites.

Actually, where the free market is relevant, yeah, I actually agree. And yes I know you are being sarcastic.

As for governments, and services provided by governments, no. Governments should be blind, and treat all people equally, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, even wealth. So yes, ending segregation in schools, public buses, was definitely the right thing to do.

As for your statement, loki, would you eat at a restaurant that had a sign on the door that said "whites only?" Do you think that such a restaurant could survive economically?

 

[nageov3t]

they don't need a sign, they can just quietly not serve people of color and blame it on their religion or something.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: loki8481
let the free market decide, those blacks aren't forbidden from eating, just eating with whites.

every time someone say free markets are the answer, a cute, cuddly, furry baby animal gets flung from a rooftop.

Seriously, free markets are nothing more than a mathematical hypothetical, they don't actually exist.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: loki8481
let the free market decide, those blacks aren't forbidden from eating, just eating with whites.

Actually, where the free market is relevant, yeah, I actually agree. And yes I know you are being sarcastic.

As for governments, and services provided by governments, no. Governments should be blind, and treat all people equally, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, even wealth. So yes, ending segregation in schools, public buses, was definitely the right thing to do.

As for your statement, loki, would you eat at a restaurant that had a sign on the door that said "whites only?" Do you think that such a restaurant could survive economically?

Depends on where it's at.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: loki8481
let the free market decide, those blacks aren't forbidden from eating, just eating with whites.

Actually, where the free market is relevant, yeah, I actually agree. And yes I know you are being sarcastic.

As for governments, and services provided by governments, no. Governments should be blind, and treat all people equally, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, even wealth. So yes, ending segregation in schools, public buses, was definitely the right thing to do.

As for your statement, loki, would you eat at a restaurant that had a sign on the door that said "whites only?" Do you think that such a restaurant could survive economically?

Depends on where it's at.

I agree. I think it is possible a few small ones could survive. But certainly not a chain, like a McDonalds, or something like that.

 

[CptObvious]

I think there's some confusion of terms here.

De jure segregation prevented people from using the same publicly funded facilities/services. If you're asking whether I think the government was wrong in ending this, my answer is a "hell no."

De facto segregation is what happens as different racial groups tend to separate from each other. It's usually protected as freedom of assembly under the 1st Amendment. Private organizations like the KKK or Moose Lodge can discriminate based on race.

Ending de facto segregation isn't the role of government IMO, but given the lack of opportunity for social mobility of minorities during desegregation, I think it was justified for the government to take steps on schooling and housing during that time.

 

[Infohawk]

I think government does need to do it in the realm of employment and commerce. I do think their legal reasoning was flawed though. I don't see why separate can't be equal just like two sovereign nations are separate but equal in rights.