Who Won the Debate?

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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
The debate was not about who had better ideas, it was about Who had the better drugs.
Mitt took speed, and Obama smoked a few joints, before going on stage.
Whoever wins, now you know presidents DO do drugs.
Doobie, meth, what is YOUR drug of choice?
 

D-Man

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 1999
2,991
0
71
There is doubt Romney cleaned Obama's clock. After reading every post I have come to this conclusion. Ones' Perception is One's reality.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
There is doubt Romney cleaned Obama's clock. After reading every post I have come to this conclusion. Ones' Perception is One's reality.

The greatest wisdom can achieve is fully understanding that perception does equal reality. Romney's stellar performance, the way he carried himself, his body language, his confidence was amazing. That's a leader.

Contrast that with the beaten dog obama. A lot of minds were made last night on who they will vote for, and it wasn't Obama.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
How's that $500 bet coming along...

I've been able to manage perception into reality to make a shit ton of money, business is all one big game of perception. 500 bucks is nothing to me.

Looks like Romney understands this truth as well as he was perceived as a leader and much more presidential than obama. I don't think you realize just how bad obama was.
 
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palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
does talk of cutting PBS funding, which is less than a thousandth of a percentage point of federal spending, and represents only 5% or less of PBS budget, actually work with rednecks?

do they think their candidates are serious about this, and that it will actually cut spending, and/or that it will end ebil librul socialist content? (despite PBS and NPR roundly being recognized as the best, most unbiased programming in this country)?

You have to be brainless to think that Romney will ever cut funding to PBS. utterly brainless.
answer me this: Are PBS and NPR essential to the future prosperity, security, or economic stability of this country?

If the answer is NO (and it most certainly is), then f'n dismantle it, STFU, and move on to the next program on the list.

Do that until we're down to the essentials while simultaneously getting rid of tax breaks and making % cuts across every department in the Government.

Anything short of the above and I'll have to say we're totally and royally fucked.
 
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palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Sadly this fact is missed on a lot on the right. They don't see the correlation between a lack of education and a lack of training and a changing economy and a high unemployment rate, which is also why cutting education seems perfectly acceptable to them. They have zero foresight and zero clue on how an economy really operates (they think having a large supply of something creates demand which is why they think tax cuts for businesses cause businesses to hire people).
Romney stated definitively last night that he would NOT cut education spending, so what was your point again?
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
the recession of 80-81 can't hold a candle to what happened in 2008-2009.
It was different. I won't say which one was worse because some factors favor one over the other I'll leave it to you to argue this point.
that being said, unemployment at the end of Reagan's term was about 2 points less than it was when he began his term, correct? ....which is about even with Obama in 4 years. just over 8% down to 6%

and with Obama: 10.5% to just over 8%, right?
What about GDP growth? Reagan's recovery had a more than triple rate of growth that Obama has now.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
I've been able to manage perception into reality to make a shit ton of money, business is all one big game of perception. 500 bucks is nothing to me.

Looks like Romney understands this truth as well as he was perceived as a leader and much more presidential than obama. I don't think you realize just how bad obama was.

Oh I think I do... as I have stated repeatedly I did not and will not ever vote for Obama. He was terrible and his usual ineffectual self last night. It certainly doesn't mean Romney is going to win or that your wallet is going to get any lighter if you in fact did take up (can't remember who now) on that $500 bet...
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
answer me this: Are PBS and NPR essential to the future prosperity, security, or economic stability of this country?

If the answer is NO (and it most certainly is), then f'n dismantle it, STFU, and move on to the next program on the list.

Do that until we're down to the essentials while simultaneously getting rid of tax breaks and making % cuts across every department in the Government.

Anything short of the above and I'll have to say we're totally and royally fucked.

I think an argument can be made that PBS and NPR both serve the national interests and foster prosperity.

It's a shame you don't see their value.
 

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
9
76
I didn't realize Republicans were such ardent defenders of medicare. Romney seemed almost personally offended by the cuts.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
In which of my posts did I say tax increases grew the economy?
Do you agree our economy needs help? Do you agree that raising taxes at least has the potential to slow growth? Just a shred of a possibility? If raising taxes won't help the economy then why do it? We need a thriving economy and if raising taxes won't help it and may even harm it then why do it?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I think an argument can be made that PBS and NPR both serve the national interests and foster prosperity.

It's a shame you don't see their value.

Then make the argument. If enough people agree with your priority then we'll keep spending public money for it.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Oh I think I do... as I have stated repeatedly I did not and will not ever vote for Obama. He was terrible and his usual ineffectual self last night. It certainly doesn't mean Romney is going to win or that your wallet is going to get any lighter if you in fact did take up (can't remember who now) on that $500 bet...

Perknose, Ausm, First

teabagtag2012
 

Emos

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2000
1,989
0
0
I am so fucking right wing I don't care who is running against obama I would vote for anyone other than him.

I don't care about any of the facts that you have. Half of them come from privately conducted studies which are all biased.

There is nothing any of you can say or do that will ever change my position.

Get over it.

*taps sarcasm meter* Is this thing working? I can't get a read on this...
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
I think an argument can be made that PBS and NPR both serve the national interests and foster prosperity.

It's a shame you don't see their value.
I didn't say that I do not see their "value," or ANY value, rather. In fact, I happen to like and appreciate both!

However, having appreciation for their product or cultural contribution is not a good enough reason to keep them around in desperate times when DRASTIC cuts are necessary across the board. (Which, make no mistake, that's what we're in right now!)

I asked one simple question: are they ESSENTIAL?

Literally ANY federal program could be vaguely described as "serving national interests and fostering prosperity" if you only view them through an emotional lens -- and I'm pretty darn sure that's how each and every one of them was sold to us in the first place.

However, once you put aside your emotional appreciation for them, to claim that NPR and PBS are essential to the future prosperity, security, or stability of this nation, you'd have to be f'n retarded.

The same simple question can/should be asked of every Federally-funded program that exists -- up to and including entire Departments (*cough* DHS *cough*)...
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
Yes progressives are pissed. Pissed that Obama failed himself and failed us, once again.
Obama has some weird tendency to disengage. Usually when you need him the most.
Healthcare reform for one. Obama failed to fight for the public option. "Let congress fight it out" was his reasoning. And Obama disengaged from the battle.

Liberals and progressives probably have now lost this election.
The polls are way too tight for any guy to screw up at this stage.
I assume the next round of polling next week will show Romney out ahead in most all swing states, and nationally as well.
This is coming down not to policy or direction or ideology, but who you want in there.
A sleeper? Or someone engaged sitting in that high office?
Like Jimmy Carter, Obama now looks like the guy sleeping. Disengaged.
That's so sad. And pisses progressives off big time. Believe me, it does.
Like that one black lady and Obama supported once said two years ago, liberals are tired of covering this presidents back.
Today, Obama is back on his game. Back on track. Calling out the Romney lies.
BUT... Only a very few will hear that message. Most will not.
In some ways myself, I feel some sort of relief because this election is most likely all over. And progressives lost.
It's like the death of an abducted child. You morn the death of your child, but still feel some relief once the body is finally recovered and can be layed to rest.
The fight for 2012 is probably all over. And progressives can not lay this fallen president to rest.
Well, there is one shining moment. That as a country we have now witnessed our first black president. The first and probably the last. At least for a very very very very long time....
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
And on PBS funding... At least Mr Rogers isn't alive to see this.
Mitt would snatch away Mr Rogers sweater and Mr Rogers would have to go out there NAKED!
Hey kiddies. The new word for today is man boobs.
 

thelastjuju

Senior member
Nov 6, 2011
444
2
0
I can't believe we're even having this discussion about PBS. This is literally less than 0.01% of our federal funding you guys are quivering over.

You don't think cutting back on military, our 17+ intelligence agencies, closing silly and nonsensical tax deductions, or scaling back entitlements is more important and far more effective?

This PBS nonsense seems like its way more of a symbolic attack on the idea of public broadcasting in general rather than a genuine concern for cutting back on spending.

Many people consider Sesame Street a national treasure with quite the legacy.

I think Romney was basically flawless last night, spare the PBS BS.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
I think an argument can be made that PBS and NPR both serve the national interests and foster prosperity.

It's a shame you don't see their value.

Ok, there's a lot of things that bring VALUE to this country. But the idea is that the Federal government shouldn't be paying for it all.

Internet brings value to many of us. So do smartphones. Should the FCC subsidize my Comcast cable and my cell phone? Should we dish out free iPhones to the poor?

At what point do you say STOP? A lot of things are beneficial, but at the same time a lot of things aren't crucial to a country's needs. PBS and NPR will survive just FINE without federal funding.

And come on libs... stop acting as if cutting PBS is the only thing that Romney is interested in to balance the budget. The idea is stuff that's not crucial to the nation's healthiness can go. This includes PBS and funding Solyndra, and fantasyland high speed rail projects (yeah that CA project that was projected at $33 billion, then ballooned to $65 billion in 3 years. Estimates show the final cost could be upwards of $80+ billion.

Crap like this needs to go.

My son had a class requirement to watch and write a report immediately after. In coming and going I noticed he got annoyed with Obama for repeatedly bringing up the the $5 trillion tax number.
TBH the $5 trillion has merit. Obviously that's just the reduction in revenue Romney is proposing and not indicating how he will pay for it. It can be less depending on which deductions he chooses to eliminate, and how he "broadens" the tax base. Had Obama been more clear on what the $5 trillion was and been more knowledgeable about Romney's tax plan (which does exist BTW, it's on his website), he could've slammed him on certain points.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
The greatest wisdom can achieve is fully understanding that perception does equal reality. Romney's stellar performance, the way he carried himself, his body language, his confidence was amazing. That's a leader.

Contrast that with the beaten dog obama. A lot of minds were made last night on who they will vote for, and it wasn't Obama.

I mistakenly said "Obama" in the poll (perhaps wishful thinking ) when I think Romney did a much better job in the debate. But here's the thing, *I* think that and it didn't change my mind about voting...and I don't think I'm alone. I honestly don't think a lot of minds were made up because most minds were already made up going into the debate. Romney did a good job in his presentation, but his facts were pretty weak. I'm not going to vote for him just because he put on a good show any more than I'd be more likely to vote for Obama if HIS song and dance hadn't been so terrible.

I suspect Romney will get a bounce in the polls as a result of the debate, but I think you're overestimating the impact...and overestimating how likely the bounce is to carry, unaltered, a month from now.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
I mistakenly said "Obama" in the poll (perhaps wishful thinking ) when I think Romney did a much better job in the debate. But here's the thing, *I* think that and it didn't change my mind about voting...and I don't think I'm alone. I honestly don't think a lot of minds were made up because most minds were already made up going into the debate. Romney did a good job in his presentation, but his facts were pretty weak. I'm not going to vote for him just because he put on a good show any more than I'd be more likely to vote for Obama if HIS song and dance hadn't been so terrible.

I suspect Romney will get a bounce in the polls as a result of the debate, but I think you're overestimating the impact...and overestimating how likely the bounce is to carry, unaltered, a month from now.

Have the debates had huge impact in the past few elections (recent ones)? I realize in the past it's meant a lot like Nixon v. Kennedy and Reagan v. Carter. Today's public gets plenty of exposure and they see candidates talk. Even if people don't follow the news there's plenty of spoofs and parodies and Youtube videos making fun of candidates.

The demeanor of a candidate doesn't mean much anymore because people are already familiar with them. However, since this is such a large margin of victory for Romney it could have some effect. I just fear it's not enough to make a difference.
 
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