Who Won the Debate?

[Abraxas]

Obama's no dummy. and he talks a good game. I think everyone (even Romney) is surprised at how the debate went.

The more I think about his debate performance tonight (stammering, lack of response, leaving the room quickly at the end, etc.), the more I believe that Obama's distracted by something. Maybe an especially poor jobs report, or something going down in the Middle East?

I don't disagree, I know Romney's full time job right now is the campaign whereas Obama still all the responsibilities of President on top of trying to run a national campaign, however, his performance tonight was very poor. Not even just being unpolished but in general being unprepared. He should not have performed as badly as he did because, as you say, he talks a good game.

Either way, I don't think this reflected well on either of them. Honestly, tell me, when you saw the two of them up on stage, did either of them inspire confidence? Did you think to yourself, one of them is the person America needs? Did you think to yourself, these two are the best America can do?

 

[Jaskalas]

Romney looked like a leader tonight. He definitely won.

Neocons are the best at winning moderates.

That is why they have taken over the GOP, to win elections.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Mitt's tone was terrible tonight. Just grating, grating, grating. Whining, whining, whining. He was full throttle trying to attack and flailing left and right.

His words are not going to connect with the swing voter he needs to convince. Obama didn't do great, but he didn't have to. He just needed to not screw up and he didn't.

 

[First]

The American people won as this just might be the point where the country turns from an unsustainable socialist entitlement course toward an entrepreneurial market driven dynamism.

And you can now say that you were there when the wake up call came.

[lol placeholder bump]

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Mitt's tone was terrible tonight. Just grating, grating, grating. Whining, whining, whining. He was full throttle trying to attack and flailing left and right.

His words are not going to connect with the swing voter he needs to convince. Obama didn't do great, but he didn't have to. He just needed to not screw up and he didn't.

I didn't watch it so I don't know how it resonates but people here clearly see Romney as winning. If he can keep doing so and not shooting himself in the foot in the meantime it just might be a horse race again.

Of course both suck, do it's like a cockroach race to me so it really isn't serious business. Neither one has demonstrated they have an understanding of underlying dynamics affecting the American public as a whole.

 

[sportage]

Romney maybe won when it comes to debate tactics, but Romney had to lie once again constantly to get there. So here we have still another Mitt Romney up before us. Romney is good at fibbing. That is what he does. That is his job.

Obama looked like a school teacher up against a kid that is always late to class and always has a different excuse. And the teacher simply has had enough of this kid and his excuses. The teacher knows argument with the kid is pointless because the kid is not going to change.

If Romney won the independents, he lost the hard right wing if what he said tonight is actually his views and his plan.

It is not that the president did not want to be there. The president knew this kids past issue with telling fibs. And here that kid is, once again, fibbing.
Any teacher would have little tolerance.
Any teacher would realize they were wasting their time.

The bottom line... which Mitt Romney are you going to buy into?
And if you buy, which Mitt Romney is going to show up in the oval office?
Mitt Romney can say what he wants, at the given moment, but his record does not support his never ending change of heart.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Honestly I completely disagree with the notion that Romney won this debate.

He came out flailing the entire night. Obama came off as the teacher and elder statesman. If the polls move more than a few points I would be surprised. This debate changes nothing in the big picture.

 

[berzerker60]

I was a little surprised how often Romney made a point about how similar his policies were to the president's. This is a run-out-the-clock situation for Obama - he has a commanding lead in all the swing states, all he has to do is be boring and respectable right now, Romney has to change minds and move the dial. That's why I think nobody won - Romney might or might not have done marginally better to the average voter who doesn't follow politics that closely, but he needs to do a LOT better.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Romney maybe won when it comes to debate tactics, but Romney had to lie once again constantly to get there. So here we have still another Mitt Romney up before us. Romney is good at fibbing. That is what he does. That is his job.

Obama looked like a school teacher up against a kid that is always late to class and always has a different excuse. And the teacher simply has had enough of this kid and his excuses. The teacher knows argument with the kid is pointless because the kid is not going to change.

If Romney won the independents, he lost the hard right wing if what he said tonight is actually his views and his plan.

It is not that the president did not want to be there. The president knew this kids past issue with telling fibs. And here that kid is, once again, fibbing.
Any teacher would have little tolerance.
Any teacher would realize they were wasting their time.

The bottom line... which Mitt Romney are you going to buy into?
And if you buy, which Mitt Romney is going to show up in the oval office?
Mitt Romney can say what he wants, at the given moment, but his record does not support his never ending change of heart.

Now I know Obama has a reason to worry. Psst, he isn't going to lose the hard right, because if they don't like Romney, what do they think of Obama?

The race has always been who the independents and moderates decide upon. Obama's best hat is foreign policy, but that won't save him. I expect that in the end Romney won't be able to keep this up, but if the does then it's anyone's game.

 

[berzerker60]

Now I know Obama has a reason to worry. Psst, he isn't going to lose the hard right, because if they don't like Romney, what do they think of Obama?

The race has always been who the independents and moderates decide upon. Obama's best hat is foreign policy, but that won't save him. I expect that in the end Romney won't be able to keep this up, but if the does then it's anyone's game.

They'll never vote for Obama, but they might not bother to vote for Romney either. This isn't just a zero-sum game, voter enthusiasm will be a HUGE part of this election.

"Independents and moderates" barely exist. The large majority of "independents" are people to the far extremes of the spectrum who consider themselves too conservative to be Republicans or too liberal to be Democrats. Mostly we're talking about who bothers to vote, plus a small fraction of low-information voters too stupid or lazy to inform themselves of the basic political facts of the day.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Romney did appear a little more polished, but that is more a critique of appearance and delivery, which lets face it most Americans judge when they have to pick a winner for something like this. If you asked viewers more specific questions such as "which candidate did you believe more", I think the results would be quite a bit different. The truth of the matter is that debates like this, barring any major gaffes, rarely move the needle much. The only comment I saw that could draw some fire down the road is the big bird comment. Suggesting we kill of sesame street isn't the best way to win over middle class families.

 

[K1052]

The only comment I saw that could draw some fire down the road is the big bird comment. Suggesting we kill of sesame street isn't the best way to win over middle class families.

Heh...that would be amusing if it was the major take away from the debates.

I can just see a nice black and white Obama superPAC a with Big Bird out on the street hooking for cash and getting beat up by his pimp with the voice over of "Mitt Romney's America" playing in the background.

 

[Abraxas]

Honestly I completely disagree with the notion that Romney won this debate.

He came out flailing the entire night. Obama came off as the teacher and elder statesman. If the polls move more than a few points I would be surprised. This debate changes nothing in the big picture.

The debate matters in that it is a catalyst for the media cycle to start moving in one direction or another. The early indicator is that even if Romney didn't perform exceptionally well, and in all honesty I don't think he did,if the media spends the next week talking about how amazing he was it will move polls. Probably not more than a couple points, but we will see.

There are two ways this could still easily bite Romney on the ass though. If the poll numbers don't move, the media narrative after a few days is going to be on why not, which means you are going to see all sorts of focus on negative characteristics of his presentation, such as a perceived whinging or whatever. The other way is that the two of them may have gotten a little too specific strange as that may sound. If the media decides this is the details and facts and numbers debate, they will start trotting out the fact checkers and if that happens, I would expect the focus to turn to Romney lying his ass off the entire debate.

Now, I don't think this is how it will play out but it is food for thought.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

There is no question the media wants this to be a competitive race because it means higher ratings for them overall. They will do everything in their power to make this a race again.

 

[Geosurface]

I got very bored of the debate right as they were finally wrapping up economics and moving on to health care, I groaned and said to my gf "I thought they had just BEEN talking about health care!" she was sleepy, I was tired of the debate. We shut it off.

So, bearing in mind that I didn't watch all of it... the part I saw, Romney was doing better. Obama was looking down too much, and looking too conciliatory to what Romney was saying. It looked like every time Romney would say something which reflected negatively on Obama, Obama would nod in agreement, with a hint of shame. Not a good visual.

Plus, Obama looked old and tired.

I don't care for Romney, and this is definitely the proverbial giant douche vs. a shit sandwich, but it does seem Romney won this one.

Even my brother, who is hyper pro-Obama, was facebooking that Romney had clearly won.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

In my opinion Obama really beat himself tonight. He literally looked like he wanted to be somewhere else. A pretty pathetic debate performance compared to his best.

 

[First]

I thought it was a tie the whole way, just kind of boring with nothing really memorable. Romney's line about green jobs instead of teachers was good, and Obama's line about Romney's secret plans was good, though not delivered with the same vigor. Obama just looks tired, so I Romney won on energy and enthusiasm, but he still didn't win on likability and definitely not on substance. I assume a plurality chose Romney as the victor of the debate, but in terms of this debate actually changing votes, that is far less likely given the current polarized environment. In fact, the reality is that voters who are least likely to vote or pay attention to elections vote Dem anyway, so anyone tuning in that wasn't likely to vote isn't going to shift to Romney in any substantial numbers that'll actually make a difference anyway. That right-wing base is already energized, and this debate doesn't change that substantially.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I didn't watch it so I don't know how it resonates but people here clearly see Romney as winning. If he can keep doing so and not shooting himself in the foot in the meantime it just might be a horse race again.

I didn't watch it either, but the interesting thing is that nothing I see here says these people's conclusion of "win" has turned into an actual meaningful shift. Everybody here seems to have immediately gone outside the debate and judged Romney's rhetoric on an objective scale, and found it wanting.
So I wonder if Romney screwed up. This was his chance to hero up -- to cut himself loose from his image of an empty suit repeating Faux News talking points and to instead command the stage. If he didn't do that, if he instead thinks he's going to coast into the Oval Office playing the same old game he's been playing, I'm not so sure that that trick has the leverage. There's a limited lifespan to blowing smoke. If Romney didn't cut himself from it here, he's probably going to be married to it 'till election day, and that is a very weak position to be in.

When being attacked by smoke, it is often best to put up little challenge in order to allow your opponent to define himself by his technique. Only after you have let him loop the rope 'round and 'round his neck do you hang him with it.

 

[sandorski]

Didn't watch, but wouldn't be surprised if Obama has a strategy in mind. We'll see soon if a bunch of Romney's quotes start showing up in Obama Ads.

 

[Matt1970]

Romney maybe won when it comes to debate tactics, but Romney had to lie once again constantly to get there. So here we have still another Mitt Romney up before us. Romney is good at fibbing. That is what he does. That is his job.

Obama looked like a school teacher up against a kid that is always late to class and always has a different excuse. And the teacher simply has had enough of this kid and his excuses. The teacher knows argument with the kid is pointless because the kid is not going to change.

If Romney won the independents, he lost the hard right wing if what he said tonight is actually his views and his plan.

It is not that the president did not want to be there. The president knew this kids past issue with telling fibs. And here that kid is, once again, fibbing.
Any teacher would have little tolerance.
Any teacher would realize they were wasting their time.

The bottom line... which Mitt Romney are you going to buy into?
And if you buy, which Mitt Romney is going to show up in the oval office?
Mitt Romney can say what he wants, at the given moment, but his record does not support his never ending change of heart.

Oh ya, he lost the hard right and they will now vote for Obama And the President will do good to stay away from talking about fibbing with his record of whoppers he told on the 2008 campaign trail.

 

[sportage]

What this is really about, and the reason the voting public has been dumbed down so much, is that people still fail to focus.
Mitt Romney would appoint more hard right winers to the Supreme Court, and we would see social issues trashed. As well as more and more money coming into the system by unknown sources. THAT would be a Mitt Romney supreme court.
Women... Women would take a huge hit on women's issues.
Mitt Romney has said he does not support fair pay for women.
Hispanics... Mitt Romney does not support the Dream Act. Another huge hit to social issues.

All this and more could easily come before the Supreme Court for final say-so.
How you vote for president ""WILL"" effect how those issues are decided in that court.
But I truly fear most voters can no longer put 2 and 2 together and figure out the final result.
People have been dumbed down to think as everything like a video game.
Who won the debate? Ok. BUT...
How would that person's decisions affect YOUR family?
YOUR clean air?
YOUR right to chose?
YOUR desire for more and more wars, troops, death, and that costs to the nation?
YOUR child's shot at a college education?

The above are just a few examples of how who you vote for, regardless of this video game winner, how that persons ideology would effect YOU and YOUR daily life.

I really doubt most voters are able to do the math or make that logical thought process.
The same logical thought process failure that gave us 8 years of GW Bush.
And after that 8 years people had the amnesia to ask WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?
As if they could no longer figure that out....

 

[bradley]

If who won the debate is based in syntax that includes copious umms/ahhs and robo-prepped non-sequitur answers, looking down and making limited eye contact: then the current President just won another three executive order/fiat terms.

Otherwise, Bill Clinton would eat both these dullards for breakfast after a sleepless night of partying and banging hot chicks 1/4 his age.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

It's not about winning the debate, it's about changing people's minds.

The damage to Romney has already been done. The public can't trust this guy and he's not going to undo that in one debate.

Obama had a lousy performance by his own standards. I think Democrats are rightly upset at him even giving Romney an opening at this point. This was his chance to completely shut the door and he screwed the pooch. He needs a tongue lashing by his campaign managers after this.

 

[monovillage]

After watching whole debate, my word cloud for Obama is economy, education, investment.

For Romney, $716 billion and small business.

What were others takeaways?

How come your word cloud doesn't match Tyler Durden's ? Just curious.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-...ey-people-obama-asks-gingerly-if-got-medicare

As Mr. Lehrer stumbled through the evening and the incumbent's odds of a repeat fell as fast as his frustration appeared to rise, a few things became very clear. President Obama spoke for over four minutes longer than Governor Romney in this evening's slug-fest. However, the fast-talking Mitt managed to squeeze in over 8300 words as opposed to Barack's 7400 words. The word-clouds below suggest each of the candidates' focus tonight with Obama appearing focused on his opponent 'Governor Romney' with heavy use of the words 'Got' and 'Medicare'; while word-wrangler Romney focused on 'People', 'Get', 'Going', 'Government', and 'Plan' (and no 'zinger').

 

[paperfist]

Mitt won by default because Obama wouldn't call him out on his bullshit. Obama was lost in some cloud in his mind, thinking he'll win on logic alone, but Americans want to see a fight. First thing he should've done was tear Mitt a new one over the 47% remark.

It was his anniversary. Dude thought he was getting some so his mind was obviously in the clouds.