Who's buying a 6 core Coffee Lake CPU? (Poll Inside)

[EXCellR8]

I'd be much more inclined to checking out a high end Coffee Lake CPU if Intel would acknowledge that forcing new boards on consumers is wrong. VRM requirements my arse... all a simple case of brand marketing.

It's this sort of thing that needs to be addressed if we're gonna reduce the amount of unwanted electronics in landfills.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I'd be much more inclined to checking out a high end Coffee Lake CPU if Intel would acknowledge that forcing new boards on consumers is wrong. VRM requirements my arse... all a simple case of brand marketing.

It's this sort of thing that needs to be addressed if we're gonna reduce the amount of unwanted electronics in landfills.

Proof that it's just marketing and that Intel's explanation is not legitimate?

 

[tamz_msc]

Proof that it's just marketing and that Intel's explanation is not legitimate?

Intel's response is BS because X299 boards support both KBL-X and SKL-X which have entirely different power delivery mechanisms and yet it only requires one to clear CMOS to switch between the two.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel's response is BS because X299 boards support both KBL-X and SKL-X which have entirely different power delivery mechanisms and yet it only requires one to clear CMOS to switch between the two.

So you think the Z270 boards were designed with power delivery systems appropriate for CFL?

 

[scannall]

So you think the Z270 boards were designed with power delivery systems appropriate for CFL?

It's been on their roadmap for years, as many in this thread like to point out. It isn't an "Oopsie" we forgot.

 

[mikk]

Intel's response is BS because X299 boards support both KBL-X and SKL-X which have entirely different power delivery mechanisms and yet it only requires one to clear CMOS to switch between the two.

That's not a proof. He asked for a proof instead another conspiracy theory.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It's been on their roadmap for years, as many in this thread like to point out. It isn't an "Oopsie" we forgot.

Adding support for the changed power delivery mechanism in the Z270 boards would've meant that the motherboard makers would've had to bloat the costs of their 200-series boards just so that they could allow people an upgrade path that most buyers won't even follow.

So do you really think the mobo makers will reduce their margins (or increase pricing) on the Z270 boards just so that the buyers who do upgrade after just one generation WON'T give them more money for a new board down the line?

Yeah, makes total sense.

 

[tamz_msc]

So you think the Z270 boards were designed with power delivery systems appropriate for CFL?

Do you think making CFL compatible with existing Z270 was something Intel fundamentally couldn't do, or is it that they simply chose not to? Because Intel's response doesn't go into technicalities at all.

That's not a proof. He asked for a proof instead another conspiracy theory.

Intel's claim with respect to this situation makes as much sense as that of a homeopath claiming alt med is "scientific". The onus is on them to prove that Z270 won't work. 2666MT memory and "improved power delivery" just doesn't cut it ATM.

 

[moonbogg]

That's not a proof. He asked for a proof instead another conspiracy theory.

Unless someone finds an email from an Intel exec which explicitly says, "Make sure to break 8700K on Z270 muaha lawl", then there can be no proof. Proof is a silly word IMO. A better word is evidence, of which there's plenty, when considering Intel's history of striving, reaching and STRETCHING for the best possible way to deliver the least value for money.

 

[mikk]

Intel's claim with respect to this situation makes as much sense as that of a homeopath claiming alt med is "scientific". The onus is on them to prove that Z270 won't work. 2666MT memory and "improved power delivery" just doesn't cut it ATM.

They did some changes to the power supply of S1151, I doubt you have enough insight to prove that change wasn't required.

 

[tamz_msc]

They did some changes to the power supply of S1151, I doubt you have enough insight to prove that change wasn't required.

Do you have the insight to "prove" that it wasn't "required"? The 2666MT/s statement is certainly bogus because it won't be the end of the world if theoretical bandwidth is reduced from 42.6 GB/s to 38.4 GB/s. The other statement regarding power delivery is incredibly vague. Of course when the CPUs release and we look at the datasheet it will be easy to say "ha! told you so!", but can you prove that it wasn't a conscious decision and whether they considered Z270 compatibility at all?

 

[coercitiv]

Adding support for the changed power delivery mechanism in the Z270 boards would've meant that the motherboard makers would've had to bloat the costs of their 200-series boards just so that they could allow people an upgrade path that most buyers won't even follow.

This just in: Z370 boards will be significantly more expensive than previous Z boards.

PS: Just imagine how bloated the Q1 2018 boards will be since they're meant to support 8 core chips launched later... that most buyers won't even upgrade to.

 

[EXCellR8]

well that's kind of the thing isn't it? I mean power is power no matter how it's delivered to the processor in the end. so what if the processor isn't quite as efficient on the older boards at least it would still work... there's really no reason that the processors couldn't physically work on the older boards. go ahead and add a few new power saving functions on Z370 but at least allow the first time 1151 adopters to have the option. but, then again, some frugal users may have opted to buy a board a year ago and wait for coffee lake processors to arrive, effectively skipping Skylake and Kaby altogether but I don't see how that would hurt Intel at all.

 

[CatMerc]

If Intel wanted to, they could have made it happen. It's not a technical mismatch. Guess what the TDP's are for the new processors
It's hardly difficult to impose a power limiter in a BIOS update that you have to turn off to make it run full speed.

 

[mikk]

Guess what the TDP's are for the new processors

Lots of experts with insight here. You have no clue obviously.

 

[CatMerc]

Lots of experts with insight here. You have no clue obviously.

It was sarcasm. Intel's TDP range for top end mainstream CPU's (6700K type of deal) ranged from 90W to 100W for countless generations now. I don't see that changing with Coffee Lake.

 

[Arachnotronic]

It was sarcasm. Intel's TDP range for top end mainstream CPU's (6700K type of deal) ranged from 90W to 100W for countless generations now. I don't see that changing with Coffee Lake.

Hint: Z370 platform is targeted at users who will, probably right after they've finished installing Windows, start cranking up the frequencies on their shiny new 8700K, throwing the TDP rating out the window.

By breaking Z270 board compatibility and forcing the motherboard cos to make sure that their Z370 designs can handle overclocked 8700K chips, you won't get people buying previous gen Z270 boards looking for a "discount" only to whine and moan on forums that their shiny new CPU doesn't overclock well, or that they fried their board.

There are good reasons for Intel to have broken CFL-S compatibility w/ Z370. As far as breaking KBL compatibility with Z370, even if it were technically possible to use the chips on those boards, who in their right mind would buy a shiny new Z370 board and pair it with a CPU that will offer very poor value for the money once CFL-S is out?

 

[maddie]

Hint: Z370 platform is targeted at users who will, probably right after they've finished installing Windows, start cranking up the frequencies on their shiny new 8700K, throwing the TDP rating out the window.

By breaking Z270 board compatibility and forcing the motherboard cos to make sure that their Z370 designs can handle overclocked 8700K chips, you won't get people buying previous gen Z270 boards looking for a "discount" only to whine and moan on forums that their shiny new CPU doesn't overclock well, or that they fried their board.

There are good reasons for Intel to have broken CFL-S compatibility w/ Z370. As far as breaking KBL compatibility with Z370, even if it were technically possible to use the chips on those boards, who in their right mind would buy a shiny new Z370 board and pair it with a CPU that will offer very poor value for the money once CFL-S is out?

As always, a tenacious argument for the defence.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

I cannot believe that there are those who are complaining about board compatibility for 20 odd pages! If you're not happy with that fact buy something else. There are far more important things in life and this certainly won't kill you, jeez.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I cannot believe that there are those who are complaining about board compatibility for 20 odd pages! If you're not happy with that fact buy something else. There are far more important things in life and this certainly won't kill you, jeez.

Yep, if generational compatibility is such a big thing, go buy a competitor's product.

 

[Zucker2k]

I cannot believe that there are those who are complaining about board compatibility for 20 odd pages! If you're not happy with that fact buy something else. There are far more important things in life and this certainly won't kill you, jeez.

Lol! I'm sure some on here won't mind seeing a few 8700ks frying inside some old dusted up Z270 boards in a few reviews, ala hardware unboxed i7 7800x style. Personally, I won't mind seeing a Z270 upgrade dongle popping up sometime in October. That should lay this debate to rest for good.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Yep, if generational compatibility is such a big thing, go buy a competitors' product.

Lol! I'm sure some on here won't mind seeing a few 8700ks frying inside some old dusted up Z270 boards in a few reviews, ala hardware unboxed i7 7800x style. Personally, I won't mind seeing a Z270 upgrade dongle popping up sometime in October. That should lay this debate to rest for good.

For me it's not a debate; as an enthusiast I want the best possible chipset and features (that I need) and that translates into a new board every to generations. And like you said, go to the competition if you don't like it and run your CPU at 4.0GHz with low frequency RAM - just like I did with Intel...in 2011... It's really like jealously isn't it? I really don't understand the fuzz about this!?

 

[Zucker2k]

For me it's not a debate; as an enthusiast I want the best possible chipset and features (that I need) and that translates into a new board every to generations. And like you said, go to the competition if you don't like it and run your CPU at 4.0GHz with low frequency RAM - just like I did with Intel...in 2011... It's really like jealously isn't it? I really don't understand the fuzz about this!?

They have to make Intel look bad at all costs (pun intended).

 

[TahoeDust]

I don't blame the competition's enthusiasts and intel haters for making hay while the sunshines and they have a viable competing product in the upper end gaming segment. It only happens about 6 months every 5 years.

 

[ozzy702]

Yep, if generational compatibility is such a big thing, go buy a competitor's product.

I considered it last night. The thought of being able to keep the same mobo and just upgrade CPUs down the line is appealing. For gaming, switching to AMD would be a step backwards from my 7700k whereas the 8700k is a step forwards for roughly the same price. As I mentioned, I'm only considering it because my brother wants me to build him a computer and I could sell him my 7700k/mobo/cooler/RAM. I was planning on waiting until Zen2 and the ~ 9700k to evaluate next year.