Who's buying Skylake-X? (You may now change your vote)

[fleshconsumed]

I still follow this thread out of curiosity (despite getting Ryzen already), and man, what a gigantic pile of mess this is turning out to be.

- 500W system power draw, this is twice as bad as the old P4 Extreme Editions that were universally panned by just about everyone
- TIM instead of solder leading to high temps and difficulty in keeping temperatures in check
- Insufficient VRM cooling leading to throttling
- $800+ starting price for 8 core CPU + most basic cheapest x299 motherboard

People are free to buy anything they want, but I'm having really hard time seeing any value paying almost 2x over 8 core Ryzen and having all of these problems.

 

[LTC8K6]

I still follow this thread out of curiosity (despite getting Ryzen already), and man, what a gigantic pile of mess this is turning out to be.

- 500W system power draw, this is twice as bad as the old P4 Extreme Editions that were universally panned by just about everyone
- TIM instead of solder leading to high temps and difficulty in keeping temperatures in check
- Insufficient VRM cooling leading to throttling
- $800+ starting price for 8 core CPU + most basic cheapest x299 motherboard

People are free to buy anything they want, but I'm having really hard time seeing any value paying almost 2x over 8 core Ryzen and having all of these problems.

I would guess that most people are not actually having "all of these problems" with SL-X?

 

[ManyThreads]

I still follow this thread out of curiosity (despite getting Ryzen already), and man, what a gigantic pile of mess this is turning out to be.

- 500W system power draw, this is twice as bad as the old P4 Extreme Editions that were universally panned by just about everyone
- TIM instead of solder leading to high temps and difficulty in keeping temperatures in check
- Insufficient VRM cooling leading to throttling
- $800+ starting price for 8 core CPU + most basic cheapest x299 motherboard

People are free to buy anything they want, but I'm having really hard time seeing any value paying almost 2x over 8 core Ryzen and having all of these problems.

I *almost* bought Ryzen and I am still buying Skylake X. Every person who actually owns the hardware doesn't seem to have any issues with VRMs or temperatures outside extreme scenarios. People like me who just want 8 cores around 4.5 Ghz and a healthy performance boost from Ryzen especially on single core, this is just the right product. Ryzen is amazing bang for the buck but for my particular usage, Skylake X is a no-brainer, and I have no plans to chase extreme OC's.

Total system cost is approximately $380 USD / $500 CAD more than the equivalent Ryzen build I had queued up and ready to go, and that's using a 1700 not an 1800X with almost all the same parts. I'm willing to pay that for the performance increases personally.

 

[Topweasel]

I *almost* bought Ryzen and I am still buying Skylake X. Every person who actually owns the hardware doesn't seem to have any issues with VRMs or temperatures outside extreme scenarios. People like me who just want 8 cores around 4.5 Ghz and a healthy performance boost from Ryzen especially on single core, this is just the right product. Ryzen is amazing bang for the buck but for my particular usage, Skylake X is a no-brainer, and I have no plans to chase extreme OC's.

Total system cost is approximately $380 USD / $500 CAD more than the equivalent Ryzen build I had queued up and ready to go, and that's using a 1700 not an 1800X with almost all the same parts. I'm willing to pay that for the performance increases personally.

I agree with you hear. I was actually gearing up for what would have been a SL-X upgrade to my SB-E setup when Ryzen came out. Good fast enough cores were more important the outright speed of Intel's offering so I jumped onto the Ryzen 1700 bandwagon.

But that doesn't stop me from recognizing the strengths of the this chip. Its a lot of performance and up to and including the 10c its a bit pricey but not really terribly priced. It blows away in productivity any CPU in the segment. Stock the 7900x might be one of the greatest offerings giving really great ST performance with fantastic MT performance. It offering fully unlocked features on X299 offers tons of connectivity that should allow it to compete with just about every task it's given. It's just never going to be a enthusiast's wet dream. It will suffer the same fate as Ryzen and ThreadRipper. It won't clock as high as people want and what clocking it does will come with one of the largest power bills this side of the FX9k CPU's.

If I had any problems it would be with the x299 platform itself. The structure of supported features is horribly fractured and places so many landmines it is a nightmare I am glad not to be a part of. In that sense the only CPU in my mind worth purchasing is the 7900x. Its where the price has it's last semblance of sense and allows for all the features and makes any board choice an easier fit. But things like a lot of the boards not using CPU based NVME drives for fear of confusion regarding which are usable due to CPU choice again makes the platform that much more of a disappointment to me.

 

[Rifter]

I still follow this thread out of curiosity (despite getting Ryzen already), and man, what a gigantic pile of mess this is turning out to be.

- 500W system power draw, this is twice as bad as the old P4 Extreme Editions that were universally panned by just about everyone
- TIM instead of solder leading to high temps and difficulty in keeping temperatures in check
- Insufficient VRM cooling leading to throttling
- $800+ starting price for 8 core CPU + most basic cheapest x299 motherboard

People are free to buy anything they want, but I'm having really hard time seeing any value paying almost 2x over 8 core Ryzen and having all of these problems.

Yeah i agree, i went ryzen to even though i was originally going to wait for SL-X then decide. Thank god i did, i always overclock to the max on any system i build and it looks like pushing SL-X to the max will get you nothing but frustration and a headache. Which is wierd, my last intel CPU(i7 930@4.2Ghz) overclocked like a dream.

 

[Shivansps]

502W? No wonder the wires are getting hot, that's a lot even for 8+4.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I still follow this thread out of curiosity (despite getting Ryzen already), and man, what a gigantic pile of mess this is turning out to be.

- 500W system power draw, this is twice as bad as the old P4 Extreme Editions that were universally panned by just about everyone
- TIM instead of solder leading to high temps and difficulty in keeping temperatures in check
- Insufficient VRM cooling leading to throttling
- $800+ starting price for 8 core CPU + most basic cheapest x299 motherboard

People are free to buy anything they want, but I'm having really hard time seeing any value paying almost 2x over 8 core Ryzen and having all of these problems.

The 8 core 7820X is $599.

 

[ManyThreads]

Yeah i agree, i went ryzen to even though i was originally going to wait for SL-X then decide. Thank god i did, i always overclock to the max on any system i build and it looks like pushing SL-X to the max will get you nothing but frustration and a headache. Which is wierd, my last intel CPU(i7 930@4.2Ghz) overclocked like a dream.

A base SL-X clocks higher than a maxed out 1700 or 1800X though, so you are still getting a faster CPU, so even if you don't OC to the max, but do something reasonable like 4.5-4.6Ghz (hence my plan), you are still getting significantly better performance comparing a stock or OC'd 7820x to a maxed out 1800x.

One thing that might help though, to be fair, is you can use the next 2 generations of Ryzen in your exiting mobo, so that could improve.

 

[fleshconsumed]

The 8 core 7820X is $599.

Yes. Which is why I said plus motherboard. X299 motherboards start at around $250'ish. Newegg combos start at $820. At the same time you can often buy 1700x for a bit more than $300 and since Ryzen motherboards are not the limiting factor in OC'ing ASRock KillerK4/SLI will do just fine putting total CPU+MB cost in the mid $400 range. Sure, Intel is going to be faster, I don't dispute that, I just don't think additional ooomph is that big, especially putting into consideration half-baked nature of this release.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes. Which is why I said plus motherboard. X299 motherboards start at around $250'ish. Newegg combos start at $820. At the same time you can often buy 1700x for a bit more than $300 and since Ryzen motherboards are not the limiting factor in OC'ing ASRock KillerK4/SLI will do just fine putting total CPU+MB cost in the mid $400 range. Sure, Intel is going to be faster, I don't dispute that, I just don't think additional ooomph is that big, especially putting into consideration half-baked nature of this release.

and don't forget that your $400 savings just converted a midrange ~$250 GPU into a high end $650 monster at the same budget of the Intel system with your dinky $250 GPU. ...or you know, 400 on Chipotle and energy drinks. whatever.

 

[lobz]

Total system cost is approximately $380 USD / $500 CAD more than the equivalent Ryzen build I had queued up and ready to go, and that's using a 1700 not an 1800X with almost all the same parts.

What...? That is the price difference of the 2 CPUs, come again please? Orncab you use the intel 8 core so easily with a $85 mobo? Which one is that??



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[Arachnotronic]

What...? That is the price difference of the 2 CPUs, come again please? Orncab you use the intel 8 core so easily with a $85 mobo? Which one is that??



Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

$85 mobo isn't as nice as a $220 X299 board...so why are you comparing the two?

 

[lobz]

$85 mobo isn't as nice as a $220 X299 board...so why are you comparing the two?

Please don't change the topic, he wrote these figures that make no sense. Did he really pair a $220 AM4 with the 1700? Then why did he cheap out on a X299 mobo for $220?

And why would he compare them in the first place? Why would you need a $220 mobo for an 1700? Unless you want extreme OC.. in which case the $220 X299 won't do the trick anyway.

Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[ManyThreads]

What...? That is the price difference of the 2 CPUs, come again please? Orncab you use the intel 8 core so easily with a $85 mobo? Which one is that??



Sent from my VTR-L09 using Tapatalk

You have to compare similar Mobo's. The CH6 is the go-to mobo in the Ryzen world, and the one I was going to buy with the feature set I wanted, and the one most likely to best support the next 2 generations of AM4 CPUs. That is $350 here in Canada. You can also buy nicely featured X299 boards for $350 (Asus TUF Mk2, Gigabyte Gaming 3, etc).

Yes, if you buy the cheapest crappiest mobo you possibly can, the price gap becomes larger between the two, but that does not apply to most people and does not apply to me. The entry cost of X299 is higher because of things like quad channel RAM, which you do not get on Ryzen, X299 chipset cost, and also probably because it has higher power requirements.

R1700 = $407 CAD
7820X = $797 CAD
Difference = $390 CAD

Add another $100 because I wanted an even better mobo for the 7820X , and I am at $480 CAD more for the entire system, with the rest of the components (PSU, RAM, SSD, Case, fans, CPU cooler) all the same. That is a no-brainer to me personally for my usage. Even if I run it bone stock it's faster than an 1800X maxed OC for what I do. Ryzen remains an excellent value, but for me the price difference isn't good enough for the performance gap.

 

[Arachnotronic]

You have to compare similar Mobo's. The CH6 is the go-to mobo in the Ryzen world, and the one I was going to buy with the feature set I wanted, and the one most likely to best support the next 2 generations of AM4 CPUs. That is $350 here in Canada. You can also buy nicely featured X299 boards for $350 (Asus TUF Mk2, Gigabyte Gaming 3, etc).

Yes, if you buy the cheapest crappiest mobo you possibly can, the price gap becomes larger between the two, but that does not apply to most people and does not apply to me. The entry cost of X299 is higher because of things like quad channel RAM, which you do not get on Ryzen, X299 chipset cost, and also probably because it has higher power requirements.

R1700 = $407 CAD
7820X = $797 CAD
Difference = $390 CAD

Add another $100 because I wanted an even better mobo for the 7820X , and I am at $480 CAD more for the entire system, with the rest of the components (PSU, RAM, SSD, Case, fans, CPU cooler) all the same. That is a no-brainer to me personally for my usage. Even if I run it bone stock it's faster than an 1800X maxed OC for what I do. Ryzen remains an excellent value, but for me the price difference isn't good enough for the performance gap.

Even an entry level X299 board typically has higher quality audio, power delivery, etc. than your run of the mill low cost B350/X370/H270/Z270 board.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You have to compare similar Mobo's. The CH6 is the go-to mobo in the Ryzen world

It is? Unless you need an insane amount of external USB ports, it really isn't. The Taichi will get you about the same level of performance and features for $50 less with better VRM configuration, and that's if you go X370. If you are running a single GPU setup or if you plan on sticking to Crossfire only, you can actually get about 95% of the same features out of a B350 board. Plus if you ask chew*, he'll tell you that it's easier to OC RAM on B350 for some bizarre reason . . .

In fact, I would like to know what wonderful features I get out of the C6H that I can't get from the ASRock B350 Pro4. Here's what I can tell so far:

- a third PCI-e slot which is virtually impossible to use with a video card that has a dual-slot cooler.
- some RGB lighting yay
- Crossfire support
- USB 3.1
- some fluff for "xtreme OC"/watercooling crowd which you would probably not use with a 1700 anyway
- a CMOS clear button
- bclk OC, good luck with that if you use NVMe
- the onboard audio might be better. Maybe?

Comparing it to my Taichi (which has built-in wireless, something the C6H technically does not have; you must buy an extra module for that), the only things I would really miss are the built-in wireless and the CMOS clear button. Though I do love me some low VRM temps. Ask Mark, he's got a Pro4. It'll get you to DDR4-3200 and has for awhile. Just pop in a 1700, clock it up to about 3.9 GHz or so, and let er rip. It just works.

This problem comes up whenever we discuss HEDT vs. mainstream/"client" platforms. You can't just compare a $250+ x299 mobo to an AM4 (or Z270) mobo in the same price range and expect that anyone buying a client-level board actually looks seriously at the $250 board. HEDT is all about high minimum cost-of-entry. There are PLENTY of x299 users out there who would jump at a $199 board (or less) if they knew the OEM would give them the power delivery they would need for the chip. It just so happens that a lot of client-level users can get away with weaker VRM setups. You don't absolutely need a 12-16 phase board for a 7700k, unless you are really going to push that thing, and even then, maybe not. It looks like you really need it for x299.

And on x299 they will make sure you pay for that stuff.

Maybe you are the type of person that refuses to pay less than $250 for a board; if so, Intel's HEDT and AMD's upcoming x399 ought to be right up your alley. For everyone else, platform cost becomes a real issue. You can have a positive user experience with a motherboard that costs $100 or (slightly) less.

Even an entry level X299 board typically has higher quality audio, power delivery, etc. than your run of the mill low cost B350/X370/H270/Z270 board.

At least in the case of the power delivery, you really don't need it for AM4 or LGA1151, do you? As far as the audio goes . . . okay? Great.

 

[ManyThreads]

I don't know what to tell you, you ignored where I said "with the feature set I wanted" and "for my usage". I did a ton of research and was going to buy the CH6, that is a fact. Therefore I compare with other $350 boards on the X299 side. If a cheaper or different board works for you personally, that's great. Between the two systems I was going to build, the X299 one is less than $500 CAD more expensive - that isn't going to change, and that is a price difference I am happy with for the advantages of the X299 platform and 7820X.

 

[DrMrLordX]

If a cheaper or different board works for you personally, that's great. Between the two systems I was going to build, the X299 one is less than $500 CAD more expensive - that isn't going to change, and that is a price difference I am happy with for the advantages of the X299 platform and 7820X.

Once you put your own personal preferences into play, you reduce commentary to the level of the anecdotal. What does the market, as a whole, want/need?

Personally I wanted the C6H too, and I couldn't get one because of stinkin Amazon and their pre-order nonsense. By the time I finally got one through back channels, the bricking fiasco had started, so I returned it and got an early Taichi. Haven't looked back. Taking it back to a personal level, can you even articulate what it was you wanted from the C6H that was so important? The only reason I was looking at the C6H was that Asus treated me really well with the A88x-Pro, so I wanted to go with them again, and the C6H was supposed to be their top-of-the-line board. If someone had put one in my hands as quickly as I ordered it, I'd be running one right now.

For the purpose of this discussion, though, I'm thinking about other people outside of you and I, since there are a lot more of those people than there are the two of us. And that is generally what is most germane to any public discussion.

Compare even Z270 to x299, do you need a $250 for Z270? No. You really don't. Maybe OEMs on the Intel side do a better job with feature segmentation, so that you will take a hit stepping down to a lower-end board, but on AM4 you get very little benefit from buying X370 depending on how you shop.

Though looking at the Z270 Pro4 - the LGA1151 equivalent of of the B350 Pro4 - it doesn't look like you're missing much unless you want to go multi-GPU. $114 shipped from the Egg.

 

[coercitiv]

Even an entry level X299 board typically has higher quality audio, power delivery, etc. than your run of the mill low cost B350/X370/H270/Z270 board.

This thread is full of surprises, like finding out Z270 boards are generally inferior and come with sub par onboard sound. The only part where cheapo Z170 boards seem to match the mighty X299 cruisers is... the VRM heatsinks!

 

[USER8000]

If you are that worried about audio you would be looking to invest in at least a decent sound card or DAC,and last time I checked if you want an 8 core mini-ITX system,the options on the X99 and X299 seem very limited and very expensive when compared to the B350 and X370 mini-ITX motherboards which are slowly being released.

 

[Arachnotronic]

This thread is full of surprises, like finding out Z170 boards are generally inferior and come with sub par onboard sound. The only part where cheapo Z170 boards seem to match the mighty X299 cruisers is... the VRM heatsinks!

There are high end Z170/Z270 boards with excellent sound and other features, but those boards didn't/done come cheap.

 

[USER8000]

Please don't change the topic, he wrote these figures that make no sense. Did he really pair a $220 AM4 with the 1700? Then why did he cheap out on a X299 mobo for $220?

And why would he compare them in the first place? Why would you need a $220 mobo for an 1700? Unless you want extreme OC.. in which case the $220 X299 won't do the trick anyway.

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I know people using the Ryzen 7 1700 on £100 B350 motherboards fine and they are actually doing work on them,so they are under load for a decent amount of time. I remember one of my mates had their Phenom II X6 running under full load for upto a week for work related stuff and that was on a £75 970 motherboard(had a good VRM section),and it still works.

So I am not sure what all this "quality" talk is about especially when a lot of commercial workstations are not running tarted out motherboards with even half the bling motherboads for gamers have. If you don't believe me,have a look in a few.

Edit to post.

To add to the above,the pointless bling just adds extra cost to the high end Intel and AMD motherboards.

Its getting worse and worse and its only used to justify ramping up the cost of motherboards,especially when compared to a decade ago,the CPU now has more and more stuff which used to be handled by the chipset integrated inside of it.

I expect given another release or two Intel will also move to an SOC like arrangement for all their HEDT chips too. They already did it with Broadwell D.

 

[Zucker2k]

It's HEDT! High End Desk Top! Premium platform with premium performance and premium tax. Please stop comparing mainstream and HEDT. HEDT is not meant for all. For some, the premium cost is worth it, otherwise, there are other choices. Smh.

 

[coercitiv]

It's HEDT! High End Desk Top! Premium platform with premium performance and premium tax. Please stop comparing mainstream and HEDT. HEDT is not meant for all. For some, the premium cost is worth it, otherwise, there are other choices. Smh.

See bellow.

The 7800x renders the entire Ryzen line obsolete. Only the R7 1700 is worth consideration because of price, but you lose significant performance.

 

[USER8000]

It's HEDT! High End Desk Top! Premium platform with premium performance and premium tax. Please stop comparing mainstream and HEDT. HEDT is not meant for all. For some, the premium cost is worth it, otherwise, there are other choices. Smh.

Only amateurs care for the bling - I have worked in places which have dozens of workstations,and none of the motherboards in those systems used for real work had half the bling for gamers. Nobody needs or wants half the rubbish on them for all these idiotic E-PENIS "gamers motherboard" rubbish. Going back a decade ago many people would have laughed at half the crap on them.

Heck,I don't know any place I have worked at(and these have millions of pounds of funding) having overclocked or delidded chips. Everything was run at stock.

All the rubbish is just adding costs and people don't seem to understand that unlike a decade ago the chipset is doing less and less.

So for more and more depreciated chipsets we are paying more and more money - I would rather they cut all the bling off these motherboards and either engineer them properly or make them cheaper.

Its ridiculous when so many of these so called "high end" Intel and AMD motherboards have VRMs engineered for show with frankly laughable heat trapping VRM cooling,which is made worse by people using coolers which mean little or no actually airflow over said power regulation.

But it looks OK,and has some meaningless spec like full spectrum HD audio and military armoured capacitors,or some nonsense like that,right??

Its a joke since people are so gullible nowadays,they fall for all this - it seems despite CPU power consumption generally going down,companies still have issues regarding motherboards.

I mean how did all those budget Pentium 4 systems last all this time - many governments around the world had Pentium 4 systems for years.

Now apparently £200+ HEDT motherboards have problems with both AMD and Intel. I mean not only this release,but even some of the X370 ones are lolworthy.