Who's Christian here?

[spc hink]

Originally posted by: loic2003
I sure hope non of you christians are fat now. You realise gluttony and greed are part of the seven deadly sins, right? Effectively, you will go to hell for that.

Or... or do you just pick and choose what parts of the bible you feel apply to you? In which case you're not a true christian and should therefore go the whole way and give it up.

start thinking: it really rocks!

You are as ignorant as the fundamental Christians back in the day who refused to believe that the Earth was not the center of the universe. If you truly want to make a good case against religion, please post something intelligent.

 

[Appledrop]

LOL RELIGION!

 

[loic2003]

Originally posted by: spc hink

Originally posted by: loic2003
I sure hope non of you christians are fat now. You realise gluttony and greed are part of the seven deadly sins, right? Effectively, you will go to hell for that.

Or... or do you just pick and choose what parts of the bible you feel apply to you? In which case you're not a true christian and should therefore go the whole way and give it up.

start thinking: it really rocks!

You are as ignorant as the fundamental Christians back in the day who refused to believe that the Earth was not the center of the universe. If you truly want to make a good case against religion, please post something intelligent.

Care to actually go ahead an substantiate your comment or will you just stick with name calling?

 

[Stojakapimp]

Originally posted by: loic2003

Originally posted by: spc hink

Originally posted by: loic2003
I sure hope non of you christians are fat now. You realise gluttony and greed are part of the seven deadly sins, right? Effectively, you will go to hell for that.

Or... or do you just pick and choose what parts of the bible you feel apply to you? In which case you're not a true christian and should therefore go the whole way and give it up.

start thinking: it really rocks!

You are as ignorant as the fundamental Christians back in the day who refused to believe that the Earth was not the center of the universe. If you truly want to make a good case against religion, please post something intelligent.

Care to actually go ahead an substantiate your comment or will you just stick with name calling?

First off, gluttony does not have to do with just eating a lot. There's a lot more to do with it than that.

And the seven deadly sins isn't a list of things such that if you are guilty of then you're going to hell. It's simply a list of wordly things that distract you from your focus of God. Many Christians (especially Protestants) have a tendency to compartmentalize sins, whereas sins are simply actions, thoughts, etc..., that take your focus away or distance you from God

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
I consider mormons/JWs as cultish, and i don't believe they worship the same thing that I and other christians do. or catholics if you see a distinction

Oh, and i meant that they aren't saved when they reject the Nicene Creed BECAUSE they reject the part where Jesus Christ came down and died for our sins

Yes, they are considered a cult by Protestants.
Not saying they are bad people; just slightly misguided.

 

[Stojakapimp]

I guess I sort of find it funny how Protestants, who are sola scriptura, believe that Catholics, who with the Orthodox (they were the same thing) put together and decided on the books of the Bible, are not Christians.

 

[JasonSix78]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp
I guess I sort of find it funny how Protestants, who are sola scriptura, believe that Catholics, who with the Orthodox (they were the same thing) put together and decided on the books of the Bible, are not Christians.

The reason why some Catholics aren't considered Christian is because of their practices/ways to get to heaven. Being saved means you admit you are a sinner, you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, that he died for your sins and the sins of the world, and that He is the Son of God (the sinner's prayer). You can do that at home, in a church, on the bus...anywhere you please. Catholics have to go through the sacraments as a way of being saved and accepting Christ. There's a lot of things in Catholicism that don't line up with the teachings in the New Testament and that's why some Catholics aren't considered Christians.

-Jason

 

[Giantsfan24]

Originally posted by: Lovepig

And for the record, I do not consider Mormons nor JW's Christians in the sense that they believe a different Jesus than I do.

Not to nit-pick but if believeing in a different Savior goes BOTh ways. If he believes different than you, then you also believe differen than him. Is there some reason your opinion should hold more validity than a JW who said YOU weren't Christian because YOU believe ina different Jesus than him?

I only believe in ONE Jesus the Christ. I just authomatically think we are talking about the same Jesus because I only know of one. What religion exactly teaches about multiple Jesus'??

I believe in the Jesus the Bible talk about. The Mormons believe in the Jesus the Book of Mormon talks about and JW's believe in the Jesus form their "new world translation" which has been shown to be full of mistranslations along with many failed prophecies(the JW's downplay this). Did you know that the translators of the New world translation could not pass a basic hebrew test in court? Paul warns about following a different gospel than the one they taught and ,IMO, this is what the Mormons and JW's have done.

Does this make them bad people? No more so that you or I. We all need forgiveness. I am not better than them. This covers it better than I could here. http://contenderministries.org
Matt><>

P.S. If anyone has any questions about who what or why I believe PM me or email me. Giantsfan24@hotmail.com

 

[MrNutz]

"But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul." link

:brokenheart: --> Lost --> --> Seeked GOD --> :Q --> Found Christ --> --> Living in undeserved Grace --> :laugh:

 

[MrNutz]

Originally posted by: CoolTech
the burning of rome im sure was documented by many scholars of different religious backgrounds though, which adds to its credibility. this is far from believing in Christianity wholeheartedly because its in a book by likeminded/belief scholars.

Good point. Let's look at the historical archives...

There are 643 copies of the most famous book of ancient Greece, Homer?s Iliad.

In comparision, their are 5,366 manuscripts to compare and draw information from for the New Testament. And in some cases, these date from the second or third centuries.

No one doubts the existence of Julius Ceasar?s Gallic Wars. For reference, we have 10 copies of it and the earliest of those was made 1,000 years after it was written.

So on the same note, it's amazing that we have such an abundance of copies of the New Testament from dates within 70 years after their writing!

 

[MrNutz]

Originally posted by: spc hink
You are as ignorant as the fundamental Christians back in the day who refused to believe that the Earth was not the center of the universe. If you truly want to make a good case against religion, please post something intelligent.

Another good question!

Some of the people that practiced Christianity throughout the years believed some wacky stuff.

But instead of relying on their conclusions, let's take a look at a couple of verses in the Old Testament. (That means before 1 AD, well over 2,000 years ago.)

"He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." - Job 26:7

Ancient scientists believed that the Earth was carried on the back of an Elephant. We think that sounds crazy now, but this was way before the modern science equipment and knowledge we have access to today.

So to see that one of the early books of the Bible states that the Earth was hung by GOD in "nothing," or as we call today "space," is amazing!

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers." - Isaiah 40:22

Wow, the earth is round?! These verses in Isaiah were written during the latter part (c. 545 - 540 BC) of the Babylonian exile. Ancient beliefs were that the earth is flat and resting on some sort of foundation. It wasn't until Ptolemy won the debate on this subject in the early second century.

So the Bible does contain amazing answers to history's most perplexing questions, years before they were proven.

 

[IAteYourMother]

I only don't call Catholics Christian because several have specifically told me to call them Catholics rather than Christian. If you actually read my posts, yes, I believe they are christian as in they will go to heaven and believe in the same core beliefs as me.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Giantsfan24

I believe in the Jesus the Bible talk about. The Mormons believe in the Jesus the Book of Mormon talks about and JW's believe in the Jesus form their "new world translation" which has been shown to be full of mistranslations along with many failed prophecies(the JW's downplay this). Did you know that the translators of the New world translation could not pass a basic hebrew test in court? Paul warns about following a different gospel than the one they taught and ,IMO, this is what the Mormons and JW's have done.

Does this make them bad people? No more so that you or I. We all need forgiveness. I am not better than them. This covers it better than I could here. http://contenderministries.org
Matt><>

P.S. If anyone has any questions about who what or why I believe PM me or email me. Giantsfan24@hotmail.com

Umm, actually, Mormons believe in the Jesus talked about in the Bible, who is also talked about in the Book of Mormon. Same guy. We accept the Bible to be the Word of God, just as we accept the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. I know some don't like the idea that there could be anything other than the Bible, but who are we to tell God how many books of scripture he can have?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DaShen

I could talk endlessly about certain thing about Mormonism. (Some very strange, peculiar things with the way the BOM was created and also the historical and theological backing of the BOM indeed, but I will leave it at that).

Hey, me too. I find many of the things done in the Bible to be strange. Would only seem natural then that some of the things I do as a Mormon would seem strange too.

They used to have a theologian that would write articles and he owned the rights to a website, so posted those articles online, but once his website funding ran out, LDS bought him out. I think it was something like karm.org, but I don't remember exactly. I think the guy worked for Probe Ministries if you want to know if he was reputable or not.

Any chance you could provide a link or something about this? It would be interesting to read about.

BTW, The RLDS (Reorganized) has started to follow Biblical doctrine. Although they still profess that the BOM is a holy book, they rarely reference it.

Had to fix that for you there. Actually, the Reorganized church did this after they lost funding because they believed in the Book of Mormon. In order to regain the funding they needed to continue their church, they had to denounce the Book of Mormon and accept the Bible as the only true Word of God. That is why it is only used as "reference" today.

 

[Giantsfan24]

Well, a Jesus who is a brother of Satan is not the same Jesus I believe in. Satan is an angel. Jesus is God. Hebrews 1 makes it quite clear that Jesus is not an angel.

If you believe in the Jesus of the Book of Mormon, so be it. I will defend your right to hold that view. But I just don't see how the two accounts mesh. These are my beliefs and are not inherently right or wrong just because I believe them.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: DaShen

I could talk endlessly about certain thing about Mormonism. (Some very strange, peculiar things with the way the BOM was created and also the historical and theological backing of the BOM indeed, but I will leave it at that).

Hey, me too. I find many of the things done in the Bible to be strange. Would only seem natural then that some of the things I do as a Mormon would seem strange too.

They used to have a theologian that would write articles and he owned the rights to a website, so posted those articles online, but once his website funding ran out, LDS bought him out. I think it was something like karm.org, but I don't remember exactly. I think the guy worked for Probe Ministries if you want to know if he was reputable or not.

Any chance you could provide a link or something about this? It would be interesting to read about.

BTW, The RLDS (Reorganized) has started to follow Biblical doctrine. Although they still profess that the BOM is a holy book, they rarely reference it.

Had to fix that for you there. Actually, the Reorganized church did this after they lost funding because they believed in the Book of Mormon. In order to regain the funding they needed to continue their church, they had to denounce the Book of Mormon and accept the Bible as the only true Word of God. That is why it is only used as "reference" today.

What did I type? "Doh" just checked, I typed Revised didn't I. Hehehe, sorry, I do that sometimes.

oh and the website got bought out by the LDS Church, all materials were taken offline. I used to have a copy of all the information, but not anymore. Again, I haven't really needed or wanted to talk about this stuff for quite a while. Mostly because I find no matter what I say about the mattter, it amounts to almost nothing. In other words, no one really changes there mind on the matter, no matter how much evidence is presented.

 

[Electric Amish]

I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
Well, a Jesus who is a brother of Satan is not the same Jesus I believe in. Satan is an angel. Jesus is God. Hebrews 1 makes it quite clear that Jesus is not an angel.

If you believe in the Jesus of the Book of Mormon, so be it. I will defend your right to hold that view. But I just don't see how the two accounts mesh. These are my beliefs and are not inherently right or wrong just because I believe them.

Such is your right, and I respect your beliefs. I don't believe Jesus is an angel either. I just wanted to make sure you really understood what Mormons believe, that's all. You have every right to feel the way you do.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DaShen

What did I type? "Doh" just checked, I typed Revised didn't I. Hehehe, sorry, I do that sometimes.

oh and the website got bought out by the LDS Church, all materials were taken offline. I used to have a copy of all the information, but not anymore. Again, I haven't really needed or wanted to talk about this stuff for quite a while. Mostly because I find no matter what I say about the mattter, it amounts to almost nothing. In other words, no one really changes there mind on the matter, no matter how much evidence is presented.

Understandable, thought I'd ask though. I'm always willing to look at what is presented, but I just might not accept it as "evidence." I have to weigh what is written with the character of the person who wrote it.

 

[piasabird]

I am a mormon and I consider myself a christian. I never got the your not a christian argument. It is like a black guy saying to another black guy "your not really black!"

 

[Cooler]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I am a mormon and I consider myself a christian. I never got the your not a christian argument. It is like a black guy saying to another black guy "your not really black!"

agreed.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Good question, but a previous poster is correct (can't remember who said it though). We are not considered Christian because we don't accept the idea that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all ONE unseperable being. We believe them to be three distinct beings, which goes against that Creed, and therefore makes us non-Christian. But that's okay. It's just a name.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Good question, but a previous poster is correct (can't remember who said it though). We are not considered Christian because we don't accept the idea that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all ONE unseperable being. We believe them to be three distinct beings, which goes against that Creed, and therefore makes us non-Christian. But that's okay. It's just a name.

Where in the definition of 'Christian' does it say that you need to believe that? It doesn't.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: DaShen

What did I type? "Doh" just checked, I typed Revised didn't I. Hehehe, sorry, I do that sometimes.

oh and the website got bought out by the LDS Church, all materials were taken offline. I used to have a copy of all the information, but not anymore. Again, I haven't really needed or wanted to talk about this stuff for quite a while. Mostly because I find no matter what I say about the mattter, it amounts to almost nothing. In other words, no one really changes there mind on the matter, no matter how much evidence is presented.

Understandable, thought I'd ask though. I'm always willing to look at what is presented, but I just might not accept it as "evidence." I have to weigh what is written with the character of the person who wrote it.

Okay. This weekend I will try to pull up all my old references and send you some information. I used to read a lot of books on this subject matter, but I found it irritating because if neither side chooses to agree on the same foundation (for example saying the Bible is the final reference), it is all for naught. That is why it is sometimes pointless just to quote scripture and "prove" Christianity to an Athiest because the Bible isn't even a reference (unless they take it out of context) for them. It is better to just point out the beliefs of what makes a Christian, or even the life of Christ, and have them decide if that seems reasonable or not. Same thing goes for any "cult" or different religious sect or religion, with no established foundation the discussion goes nowhere.

If we can agree on the inerrancy of the Bible beforehand, I will pull up my references and try to gather the information I had before.

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Just because they use the words 'Jesus Christ' as the name of their church doesn't mean they are Christian.

If I start up a religion, I can claim anything I want and throw in names from the Bible here and there, but if I'm not practicing the truths of the Bible (God's only word, as believed by Christians), it is not Christianity.

EA, are you a Mormon, btw?
Assumption comes from your location, which is Utah (highest Mormon population in the US, world?).