Who's Christian here?

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Good question, but a previous poster is correct (can't remember who said it though). We are not considered Christian because we don't accept the idea that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all ONE unseperable being. We believe them to be three distinct beings, which goes against that Creed, and therefore makes us non-Christian. But that's okay. It's just a name.

Where in the definition of 'Christian' does it say that you need to believe that? It doesn't.

I don't think it does. But since over 90% of Christians accept the Nicene Creed, they think those who don't accept it are not Christian.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Good question, but a previous poster is correct (can't remember who said it though). We are not considered Christian because we don't accept the idea that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all ONE unseperable being. We believe them to be three distinct beings, which goes against that Creed, and therefore makes us non-Christian. But that's okay. It's just a name.

Where in the definition of 'Christian' does it say that you need to believe that? It doesn't.

EDIT: Seemed to have messed up my message somehow. Sorry

It doesn't. That's just the way certain sect view it.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Just because they use the words 'Jesus Christ' as the name of their church doesn't mean they are Christian.

If I start up a religion, I can claim anything I want and throw in names from the Bible here and there, but if I'm not practicing the truths of the Bible (God's only word, as believed by Christians), it is not Christianity.

EA, are you a Mormon, btw?
Assumption comes from your location, which is Utah (highest Mormon population in the US, world?).

Where does it say in the Bible that it is "God's only word"?

Catholics don't think that the Bible is "God's only word". So are they not Christian either?

 

[DVK916]

One thing that I do wonder.

For JWs and Mormons.

So if Jesus is the son of God, but not God him self. Does that make him some demigod. So there is more than one "God" in Mormonism.

 

[Giantsfan24]

What else to Cathlolics view as God's word?

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I am a mormon and I consider myself a christian. I never got the your not a christian argument. It is like a black guy saying to another black guy "your not really black!"

Bad analogy.
Christianity (and other religions for that matter) are not as simple as black and white. Not even close.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Have you ever read their ridiculously twisted views of the Bible?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Okay. This weekend I will try to pull up all my old references and send you some information. I used to read a lot of books on this subject matter, but I found it irritating because if neither side chooses to agree on the same foundation (for example saying the Bible is the final reference), it is all for naught. That is why it is sometimes pointless just to quote scripture and "prove" Christianity to an Athiest because the Bible isn't even a reference (unless they take it out of context) for them. It is better to just point out the beliefs of what makes a Christian, or even the life of Christ, and have them decide if that seems reasonable or not. Same thing goes for any "cult" or different religious sect or religion, with no established foundation the discussion goes nowhere.

If we can agree on the inerrancy of the Bible beforehand, I will pull up my references and try to gather the information I had before.

It's alright if you don't have it. I don't want to cause you any trouble. I just wanted to know if it was on the web somewhere. Don't kill yourself over it.

Do I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible? Sure, as long as it was translated correctly. However, I've studied enough of Greek and Hebrew to know some of the words are not correct, and some where added by the transcriptionist to help a certain verse make sense, at least in the KJV. Does that mean I don't believe the concepts and doctrines taught in the Bible? Absolutely not. But to assume that the translation is 100% accurate is difficult to do.

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Just because they use the words 'Jesus Christ' as the name of their church doesn't mean they are Christian.

If I start up a religion, I can claim anything I want and throw in names from the Bible here and there, but if I'm not practicing the truths of the Bible (God's only word, as believed by Christians), it is not Christianity.

EA, are you a Mormon, btw?
Assumption comes from your location, which is Utah (highest Mormon population in the US, world?).

Where does it say in the Bible that it is "God's only word"?

Catholics don't think that the Bible is "God's only word". So are they not Christian either?

I'm not knowledgeable enough to pull verses from the Bible, but maybe I shouldn't have used 'only' in that context.

Read some previous posts to see how I and other Christians view Catholicism.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: piasabird
I am a mormon and I consider myself a christian. I never got the your not a christian argument. It is like a black guy saying to another black guy "your not really black!"

Bad analogy.
Christianity (and other religions for that matter) are not as simple as black and white. Not even close.

The religions themselves are not, but a definition of a word definitely is. Believe that Jesus Christ is the way to heaven and you are a Christian. Period.

 

[Giantsfan24]

We only believe the original scripture is inerrant. Not copies. But that doesnt mean we cant trust the scriptures we do have(we have so amny manuscripts to go from)

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
What else to Cathlolics view as God's word?

Tradition. Pope.

 

[Giantsfan24]

If Christian means follower of Jesus, then technically, a mormon would be but like I said, which Jesus do they follow? Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet...are they christians because they believe in Him?

Would you view those suicide cults that quote Bible verses christians just because they throw around the name Jesus? A Christian(IMO) is a follower of the Jesus of the Bible. period.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: psteng19

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Just because they use the words 'Jesus Christ' as the name of their church doesn't mean they are Christian.

If I start up a religion, I can claim anything I want and throw in names from the Bible here and there, but if I'm not practicing the truths of the Bible (God's only word, as believed by Christians), it is not Christianity.

EA, are you a Mormon, btw?
Assumption comes from your location, which is Utah (highest Mormon population in the US, world?).

Where does it say in the Bible that it is "God's only word"?

Catholics don't think that the Bible is "God's only word". So are they not Christian either?

It is about the inerrancy of the Bible, not that it is G-d's ONLY Word, but it is the only Word that has been weighed and not found wanting. It is also the only Word (letters and OT Scriptures) claimed by the apostles as G-d-breathed. And it is the only book that was established by the Council of Nicaea.

**EDIT**
So even if G-d "spoke" through others. The Bible should be able to weigh the validity of the other so-called books from G-d

 

[Vegitto]

What do you think?

(In case you're wondering; NO, I am NOT christian.)

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DVK916
One thing that I do wonder.

For JWs and Mormons.

So if Jesus is the son of God, but not God him self. Does that make him some demigod. So there is more than one "God" in Mormonism.

Here's our official stance.

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

And yes, we believe them to be 3 distinct, different beings and refer to them as the Godhead rather than the trinity. Is there more than one God? I guess you could say that, considering all the the Father hath is given to the Son. So if the Father is a God and he has given everything he has to his Son, that would make his Son a God as well.

 

[Giantsfan24]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
What else to Cathlolics view as God's word?

Tradition. Pope.

Thats where we differ. We believe Sola scriptura. To say the Pope is infallible when it comes to spiritual manner IMO is making a relationship with Jesus into a religion(full of rules and things to earn your way into heaven). Indulgences????? Remember those. Hail mary's. I ask, if the pope suddenly denied that Jesus was raised form the dead, would Catholics have to go along with it?(im not being sarcastic)

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: DVK916
One thing that I do wonder.

For JWs and Mormons.

So if Jesus is the son of God, but not God him self. Does that make him some demigod. So there is more than one "God" in Mormonism.

Here's our official stance.

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

And yes, we believe them to be 3 distinct, different beings and refer to them as the Godhead rather than the trinity. Is there more than one God? I guess you could say that, considering all the the Father hath is given to the Son. So if the Father is a God and he has given everything he has to his Son, that would make his Son a God as well.

And we are also His sons, according to the BOM, and we will become god's (literally) ourselves one day. This is a very un-Biblical teaching.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I still don't understand how the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon) is not considered "Christian".... :roll:

Have you ever read their ridiculously twisted views of the Bible?

Sure have. Aren't they great?!

 

[Giantsfan24]

The Bible makes it very clear there is ONE God. Not one God for us and another for another race of lifeforms. Isaiah 44:6,8 and Acts 4:12 Seams pretty clear cut. One God

http://www.carm.org/kjv/Isaiah/Isaiah_44.htm



http://www.carm.org/kjv/ACts/Acts_4.htm

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
If Christian means follower of Jesus, then technically, a mormon would be but like I said, which Jesus do they follow? Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet...are they christians because they believe in Him?

Would you view those suicide cults that quote Bible verses christians just because they throw around the name Jesus? A Christian(IMO) is a follower of the Jesus of the Bible. period.

Yes, but that is subject to your interpretation of the Jesus of the Bible. I see no difference in the Jesus I believe in as compare to the one in the Bible. You're the one that sees the difference.

 

[Giantsfan24]

Exactly. If you want to consider yourself a christian, do so. But we have more than explained why we do not consider Mormons and JW's christians. I am not telling you to do anything.

We have shown why we think Mormon and JW beliefs are not Biblical. If you disagree, so be it. But we do have a reason. Its not that we don't like you

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
The Bible makes it very clear there is ONE God. Not one God for us and another for another race of lifeforms. Isaiah 44:6,8 and Acts 4:12 Seams pretty clear cut. One God

http://www.carm.org/kjv/Isaiah/Isaiah_44.htm

http://www.carm.org/kjv/ACts/Acts_4.htm

I see carm.org is back up
Is it run by Probe ministries again, or does the LDS still own the site rights?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: DaShen

And we are also His sons, according to the BOM, and we will become god's ourselves one day. This is a very un-Biblical teaching.

Yes we do. But tell me, how is this understood in other religions (completely curious, not Bible bashing)

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever;

To us, God has himself admitted that man may in fact become like him. We also believe in a Godhead as well due to the use of the word "us" rather than me or I. So honestly, just looking for interpretation, how do other religions interpret this?

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: DaShen

And we are also His sons, according to the BOM, and we will become god's ourselves one day. This is a very un-Biblical teaching.

Yes we do. But tell me, how is this understood in other religions (completely curious, not Bible bashing)

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever;

To us, God has himself admitted that man may in fact become like him. We also believe in a Godhead as well due to the use of the word "us" rather than me or I. So honestly, just looking for interpretation, how do other religions interpret this?

Personally as an atheist. That passage sounds like this is some counsole of Gods, and they are saying one day man will be a god.