Who's Christian here?

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engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: DVK916
What I don't understand is how we can be such an advance society yet, have so many people worshiping invisible beings.

Really god is like Santa Clause for adults.

For years these little things called atoms and protons and electron couldn't be seen, but scientist still had faith that they were there, based off experiments and test. They were, as you said, invisible, for the scientist could not yet see them. And then there was that wretched little thing called gravity, and dang it all if it isn't invisible too.

I'm honestly not trying to make fun of you or anything but simply show you that all around us are things which can't be seen with our eyes, some even with the help of technology. As Obi-Wan once said, "Your eyes can deceive you, don't trust them."
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: Shenkoa
I don?t know what I am. Maybe someone can help me here.

I do believe in.

1. Jesus Christ
2. Evolution
3. Science
4. Good and Bad

What I don?t believe in.

1. That Jesus rose from the grave.
2. In god
3. Heaven
4. Hell
5. Most of the Bible
6. Speaking in tongue

What I hate.

1. People who look down on you because your a non Christian or think your evil, in my opinion people such as that are simple minded idiots. LIKE EVERYONE I KNOW.

Interesting. Not sure how I'd classify that either. Just out of curiosity, how do you believe in Christ, but not in what Christ taught? Or am I misunderstanding?
 

40Hands

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2004
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71
Nope.

I did go to church one time that I can remember and it was the most boring thing ever.
 

jupiter57

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2001
4,600
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Well, I am a Christian. I did not sign anything, I did not just join a church, I did not just get baptised, I didn't say a pre-arranged prayer.
I simply bowed and prayed for The Lord to "Save my Soul" as we say here in the South.(As in:" Ye must be born again")
He knew that I was repenting of my sins, that I truly believed in him, and that I was sincere. After what seemed like a long while of pleading and begging, a still, small voice spoke to me and said "You are saved".
I don't always live right, and he will punish me when I do wrong, teaching me that those things are wrong. There is a real power in being a true Christian, it's hard to explain to those who are not, but as plain as day to those who have been born again!
I'm a firm believer in the King James Version of the bible as the only written word we should accept, and the New Testament is Jesus' teachings of how to live our lives. He explains that not all of the writings in the Old Testament are necessarily Gods true will, although a lot of it is.
For example, "It is not what goes into a mans mouth, rather what comes out of it" tells me that is alright to eat shellfish, pork, etc.
Better stop here, just wanted to put in my $.02 worth.
 

psteng19

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2000
5,953
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Originally posted by: Shenkoa
I don?t know what I am. Maybe someone can help me here.

I do believe in.

1. Jesus Christ
2. Evolution
3. Science
4. Good and Bad

What I don?t believe in.

1. That Jesus rose from the grave.
2. In god
3. Heaven
4. Hell
5. Most of the Bible
6. Speaking in tongue

What I hate.

1. People who look down on you because your a non Christian or think your evil, in my opinion people such as that are simple minded idiots. LIKE EVERYONE I KNOW.

Definitely not Christian.

Christians (or anybody for that matter) have no right to judge anyone else.
What was it that Jesus said? Let he without sin cast the first stone?
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
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Originally posted by: Shenkoa
Then what I am?

Still kind of wondering what you believe about Christ? You say you believe in him, but not what he did. What exactly do you believe about Christ?
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,436
5,410
136
Church of Christ background, unsure of where I belong (currently attending Duke Chapel, which is Methodist/Anglican, and Campus Crusade for Christ, a non-denominational gathering of Christians).

I am certainly a sinner but that does not put me outside of God's grace... I won't try to enter the debate here because I am not as knowledgeable as I wish I was, but I will say this: many of the negative perceptions people have about Christianity are due to extremist/fundamentalist/incorrect teachings and should NOT be taken to represent all Christians. Remember above all that we are called by Christ to be loving and compassionate to ALL people, and that hatred/enmity/condemnation is from Satan. Satan would like nothing more than to constantly make us feel guilty and hopeless about our sins - it is Christ who lifts our heads up and reminds us that we are not ouside of God's grace, and that it is our challenge to live a life worthy of God's calling.

/.02c
 

FDF12389

Diamond Member
Sep 8, 2005
5,234
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I dont ride under the banner of religion, I am a follower of Christ, but not a christian. Religion=Nothing
 

therealnickdanger

Senior member
Oct 26, 2005
987
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You can believe Christ existed and that His tomb was empty - since there is actual historical evidence to prove both. Multiple written sources attest to seeing Jesus alive after his tomb was emptied. Many historical "facts" and "truths" have been sustained throughout the ages with far less evidence to support their claims. Many current "facts" and "truths" also take stretches of the imagination to appreciate. The choice to believe that Christ died and was resurrected to win our redemption is where faith comes in. You either have it or you don't.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
0
0
Originally posted by: psteng19
Originally posted by: Shenkoa
I don?t know what I am. Maybe someone can help me here.

I do believe in.

1. Jesus Christ
2. Evolution
3. Science
4. Good and Bad

What I don?t believe in.

1. That Jesus rose from the grave.
2. In god
3. Heaven
4. Hell
5. Most of the Bible
6. Speaking in tongue

What I hate.

1. People who look down on you because your a non Christian or think your evil, in my opinion people such as that are simple minded idiots. LIKE EVERYONE I KNOW.

Definitely not Christian.

Christians (or anybody for that matter) have no right to judge anyone else.
What was it that Jesus said? Let he without sin cast the first stone?

Judging is self-serving, yes. It allows people to get a much-desired sense of moral superiority. As an evangelical Christian, this is what I hate most about what Christians do - we judge. It's human nature. You read the Bible, learn to discern right from wrong, and it becomes second nature to point fingers at others. A better quote would be when Jesus said in parable that we point out the speck in our brother's eye while ignoring the plank in our own eye.

But being a non-Christian, I ask that you learn to discern God's message from the bastardizations of it that you see daily from Christians. Ideally, a Christian should never ever ever ever react to injustice with ANYTHING but the perfect love that is a reflection of Christ. When we do, we fail God. God asks us to be meek and humble and loving toward others unfailingly, as the Beatitudes commands - and use His commandments to judge no one but ourselves.

For the previous author, exactly what is it that you believe about Jesus Christ? I ask that you seek out a book called "More than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell - it outlines some fundamental and verifiable evidence why Jesus could be anything BUT merely a good moral teacher.
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
16,430
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Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
Read the rest of the verse. The reason man became like God was because he knew good and evil. Before, he didn't.

You are 100% correct. So there are two things that have kept us from being like God. Knowledge of good and evil and being sinful. So, one down. As for the sin, Christ died for us so that we could be forgiven of our sins. If we are in fact forgiven, what then is left?

You don't understand.

Knowledge of good and evil and being free of sin is not all that is required. Also..in order to be free of sin one would have to never sin, ever, having no sin to need forgiveness for.

But if you don't believe in that....as soon as you mormons become the following three things, then I will give you a small amount of credit at the possibility of you to be like God:

Omnipotent
Omipresent
Omniscient

Until then, your belief that you can be even REMOTELY like God (or become A god as your religion will [eventually {when they think you are ready and deceived enough}] teach you) is false.
 

Krazefinn

Senior member
Feb 1, 2006
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Admitting you are a sinner is what PUTS you in his grace, denying it does not...
the salvific act of atonement is followed by translation at the final trump, when we shall shed the corruptible, and put on the incorruptible.
But once saved, its a lifelong act of continous grace and faith (with lapses...) to be prepared "for we know not the hour"

Forgiveness is not all there is to it. Yes, grace and mercy were requisite, for prior to the christ no man (could have) lived a pure sinless life. And in so doing, he offended the religious Sanhedrin Hebrew leaders by associating with the rifraff, common unwashed masses and unclean. He upset the staus quo, commonly held beliefs. Most people then missed the truth, and were deluded by the "common majority wisdom", as now.
But once forgiven, the other side of the coin is gratitude....and adherence to what the forgiver stands for..

Analogy: you are caught speeding, you go to court and throw yourself at the judges feet. You admit guilt, you plead mercy, and judge says you are forgiven:GO AND SIN NO MORE.

DOES THAT MEAN NEXT DAY YOU DRIVE TWICE AS FAST< because the law keeper and judge gave you mercy under the law?
NO!!! You keep the law....that is the greatest deception there is....Tthe LAW was not nailed to the cross...ONLY THE PUNISHMENT THAT THE LAW DEMANDED: DEATH. And secondly, if you go to the judge, are arrogant, denying any guilt of breaking law, do you think they will commute sentence or extend any mercy??

And not just death of the body, it was COMPLETE AND TOTAL SEPARATION FROM GOD THE FATHER that elucidated tears and sweat of blood from the christ in the garden. He truly felt his becoming sin for us would completely and irrevocably separate him....for an understanding of death, read the scriptures. Its not that the body dies, and the spirit lives consciously....BUT there are a number of elements involved. Even Shakespeare understood the concept " to die, to sleep, to sleep to dream, oh what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil:" quoted from hamlets seventh soliloquoy. Face it or not, if you believe in the creative fiat, the bible remains the only enduring source of information on our origins, nature, and disposition....the fact it has lasted despite unwarranted negative sanctions for millenia, (and if it were just fables, WHY THE UPROAR? It could not have persisted, been as coherent and accurate, or so many millions willing to die at the hands of roman inquisitors by fire, hanging, drawn and quartered, in the colliseum, etc as heretics for refusing to renounce it and proclaim a man their moral authority) indicates by itself that it must be more than that. The forces of evil would not attack something that was meaningless, nor dilute it, deceive, counterfeit, confuse, and otherwise obfuscate the plain truth, plain anyway to "those who have ears, let them hear", anyone with spiritual quest WILL glean the message of salvific grace, atonement, truth, and hope open to all who wanted it.

No, we do not become God, but we are heirs to the kingdom, sons and daughters of the one true living God, who hopes to have us relate to him face to face, as Adam and Eve did in the original sinless garden, until ( and against Gods command not to go to that tree) tempted by that great deceiver, Lucifer, once the right hand angel covering Cherub of God, accused God of being capricious and arbitrary, and denying free moral agency, and was hence cast to this earth with one third of the angels who went with him, BECAUSE LUCIFER COVETED and wanted to BE GOD. Did Lucifer not say that to eve too? Here, eat this, know good and evil, and be like God? Any religion that ascribes to that has lost the truth...
but to defend His honor and character (his NAME) God had to himself become human, live as he hoped humans could by their own free will, NOT FROM FEAR, not from the desire of the "immortal life" cookie, but because we chose to follow the law and do what's right SIMPLY BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. SO Jesus became man, walked 33 years among us, lived as an example, PAID THE ULTIMATE PRICE on that roman tree. The way of truth is not the "moral majority" history has time and again shown. He was reviled, rejected, even his 12 closest compadres were fearful, and hiding behind locked doors, when he reappeared after Golgotha. Time and time again, despite His wanting to "save evryone, and that none would be lost", most people are too caught up in fitting in, being cool, like everyone else, to risk seeking the truth, and following it, EVEN IF IT REQUIRED WE DO WHAT JESUS DID, and that was to buck the "moral majority" and be different, all inclusive, nonjudgemental, showing kindness and mercy to all, loving even those who hated you.

Thats the problem with christianity today. Not like christ himself...but actually like those money-changers he chased from the temple instead...
so, do you really know Him? Will he know you at judgement? He asks did you do this in my name, feed, clothe, etc? But I knew you not....get thee hence. SO its apparent that what we do is not as important as WHY we do it....
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
Read the rest of the verse. The reason man became like God was because he knew good and evil. Before, he didn't.

You are 100% correct. So there are two things that have kept us from being like God. Knowledge of good and evil and being sinful. So, one down. As for the sin, Christ died for us so that we could be forgiven of our sins. If we are in fact forgiven, what then is left?

You don't understand.

Knowledge of good and evil and being free of sin is not all that is required. Also..in order to be free of sin one would have to never sin, ever, having no sin to need forgiveness for.

If we are forgiven of our sin, what difference does it make? As long as we repent, it will be as Isaiah said. "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, thought they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." To deny that the Lord is capable of forgiving and purifying us from our sins is to deny his atonement. Sin only keeps us from his presence if we never repent.

But if you don't believe in that....as soon as you mormons become the following three things, then I will give you a small amount of credit at the possibility of you to be like God:

Omnipotent
Omipresent
Omniscient

Until then, your belief that you can be even REMOTELY like God (or become A god as your religion will [eventually {when they think you are ready and deceived enough}] teach you) is false.

Such is your choice. But just so you know, that wouldn't happen until after Judgement Day, and by then it would be a little too late. And actually, my belief in not false, it is simply not accepted by you.

Becoming linke God in not way reduces his role in our life, nor does it make him in anyway less than what he is, which is God. What it does do is give a higher purpose to this life, as well as and idea as to why following his commandments are so important. It also shows the extreme importance of what Christ did, for this could not have been accomplished without his atonement. To me, it provides a much closer and better relationship to the Savior as well as my Father in Heaven. It lets me know that they are mindful of me, that they love me, and that they want me to be like they are, but they realize I need help to do it. So feel as you do, such is your right, but my relationship with God is one that no earthly man can set asunder.
 

psteng19

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2000
5,953
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Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: OdiN
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: Giantsfan24
Read the rest of the verse. The reason man became like God was because he knew good and evil. Before, he didn't.

You are 100% correct. So there are two things that have kept us from being like God. Knowledge of good and evil and being sinful. So, one down. As for the sin, Christ died for us so that we could be forgiven of our sins. If we are in fact forgiven, what then is left?

You don't understand.

Knowledge of good and evil and being free of sin is not all that is required. Also..in order to be free of sin one would have to never sin, ever, having no sin to need forgiveness for.

If we are forgiven of our sin, what difference does it make? As long as we repent, it will be as Isaiah said. "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, thought they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." To deny that the Lord is capable of forgiving and purifying us from our sins is to deny his atonement. Sin only keeps us from his presence if we never repent.

But if you don't believe in that....as soon as you mormons become the following three things, then I will give you a small amount of credit at the possibility of you to be like God:

Omnipotent
Omipresent
Omniscient

Until then, your belief that you can be even REMOTELY like God (or become A god as your religion will [eventually {when they think you are ready and deceived enough}] teach you) is false.

Such is your choice. But just so you know, that wouldn't happen until after Judgement Day, and by then it would be a little too late. And actually, my belief in not false, it is simply not accepted by you.

Becoming linke God in not way reduces his role in our life, nor does it make him in anyway less than what he is, which is God. What it does do is give a higher purpose to this life, as well as and idea as to why following his commandments are so important. It also shows the extreme importance of what Christ did, for this could not have been accomplished without his atonement. To me, it provides a much closer and better relationship to the Savior as well as my Father in Heaven. It lets me know that they are mindful of me, that they love me, and that they want me to be like they are, but they realize I need help to do it. So feel as you do, such is your right, but my relationship with God is one that no earthly man can set asunder.

There's a huge difference from having never sinned, to being a forgiven sinner.

Think of the difference as a brand new car, and a car involved in a major accident but repaired by a body shop I guess.
It may look like it did before, but it will never drive the same.

Regardless, because we are forgiven does not mean we are perfect, like Christ was.
Even the best Christian continues to sin every day.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
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Originally posted by: psteng19

There's a huge difference from having never sinned, to being a forgiven sinner.

Think of the difference as a brand new car, and a car involved in a major accident but repaired by a body shop I guess.
It may look like it did before, but it will never drive the same.

Regardless, because we are forgiven does not mean we are perfect, like Christ was.
Even the best Christian continues to sin every day.

I wouldn't even pretend to say that we are all sinners, nor that even after we repent we don't sin again. Thus the glory of repentance. It works everytime so long as we continue to try to not sin again.

The Savior commanded us to be perfect. Why would he do that if it wasn't possible? Perfection is only attainable through Christ and his atonement. Perfection doesn't mean that we've never made a mistake in this life, it just means that our mistakes have been repaired. I think we both agree that there is justice and mercy. Justice requires that we abide by the law, where mercy makes restitution possible when a violation has occurred. Consider the following analogy.

A young man, seeing a great prize that he wished to possess, incurs a debt larger than what he can repay. Although during the time he works as he should to pay the debt, hoping that the day of full payment never comes. However, as it always does, it arrives. When the loan granter arrives to receive his complete payment, the debter is unable to pay. As he pleads for mercy, the loaner replies "Mercy is so one sided, it would serve only you. I would be left with nothing. I demand justice." Therefore, in order for justice to be satisfied, and mercy granted, a three person is required. This new person makes the required payment, appealing the needs of justice, and sets a new condition for the debter, such that mercy may be given as well. The debter is then subject to the requirements of this new person, but should he fulfill them, all will be well.

This analogy is similar to our position in life. God has provided a set of commandments that we are to follow. When we violate these commandments, we are subject to the required justice. In order to overcome this, a third person is needed to make the necessary restitution. This is where the Savior comes in. His experience in the Garden of Gethsemane and his death on the cross met the requirements of justice. In this way, he is able to extend mercy to each of us, giving us the opportunity to try again. So long as we are able to follow his commandments and his requirements, our debt can be forgiven and we can return to our original state.

Do that make sense? I know my version of the analogy isn't quite as great as the original, which I can provide if necessary. Let me know.
 

kitkat22

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,464
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Originally posted by: psteng19

There's a huge difference from having never sinned, to being a forgiven sinner.

Think of the difference as a brand new car, and a car involved in a major accident but repaired by a body shop I guess.
It may look like it did before, but it will never drive the same.

Regardless, because we are forgiven does not mean we are perfect, like Christ was.
Even the best Christian continues to sin every day.

And yet you have this perplexing commandment stated by the Savior, "Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect."

Christ does not command anything that isn't ultimately possible. Each of the ten commandments are very possible, but often neglect fulfilling them. If we do not keep the commandment "Thou shalt not steal" we are guilty of sin. If we do not keep the commandment be ye therefore perfect we are guilty of sin and just like stealing we must repent.

Your analogy about the car is correct, but we have a different approach to the problem. Repenting and being cleaned is as if the sin never happened in the eyes of God. This makes a little more sense when the scriptures talk about becoming a new creature in Christ or being born again. So essentially the car is not repaired, but completely replaced.

It really comes down to perspective and belief. I'm not going to argue points, but this is an attempt to explain how we view this.
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
16,430
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Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Originally posted by: psteng19

There's a huge difference from having never sinned, to being a forgiven sinner.

Think of the difference as a brand new car, and a car involved in a major accident but repaired by a body shop I guess.
It may look like it did before, but it will never drive the same.

Regardless, because we are forgiven does not mean we are perfect, like Christ was.
Even the best Christian continues to sin every day.

I wouldn't even pretend to say that we are all sinners, nor that even after we repent we don't sin again. Thus the glory of repentance. It works everytime so long as we continue to try to not sin again.

The Savior commanded us to be perfect. Why would he do that if it wasn't possible? Perfection is only attainable through Christ and his atonement. Perfection doesn't mean that we've never made a mistake in this life, it just means that our mistakes have been repaired. I think we both agree that there is justice and mercy. Justice requires that we abide by the law, where mercy makes restitution possible when a violation has occurred. Consider the following analogy.

A young man, seeing a great prize that he wished to possess, incurs a debt larger than what he can repay. Although during the time he works as he should to pay the debt, hoping that the day of full payment never comes. However, as it always does, it arrives. When the loan granter arrives to receive his complete payment, the debter is unable to pay. As he pleads for mercy, the loaner replies "Mercy is so one sided, it would serve only you. I would be left with nothing. I demand justice." Therefore, in order for justice to be satisfied, and mercy granted, a three person is required. This new person makes the required payment, appealing the needs of justice, and sets a new condition for the debter, such that mercy may be given as well. The debter is then subject to the requirements of this new person, but should he fulfill them, all will be well.

This analogy is similar to our position in life. God has provided a set of commandments that we are to follow. When we violate these commandments, we are subject to the required justice. In order to overcome this, a third person is needed to make the necessary restitution. This is where the Savior comes in. His experience in the Garden of Gethsemane and his death on the cross met the requirements of justice. In this way, he is able to extend mercy to each of us, giving us the opportunity to try again. So long as we are able to follow his commandments and his requirements, our debt can be forgiven and we can return to our original state.

Do that make sense? I know my version of the analogy isn't quite as great as the original, which I can provide if necessary. Let me know.

You've certainly typed a lot of words for not saying much in that post....

Strive to be perfect...it cannot be achieved in this life. If you were perfect, you would never need to be forgiven. I do not belive anyone (save for Christ Himself) has or will ever accomplish that.

You've ignored my statement previously about being Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omiscient. But hey.

Oh and where exactly were we commanded to be perfect? I would like to look that up.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
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Originally posted by: OdiN

You've certainly typed a lot of words for not saying much in that post....

You should try reading it again then.

Strive to be perfect...it cannot be achieved in this life. If you were perfect, you would never need to be forgiven. I do not belive anyone (save for Christ Himself) has or will ever accomplish that.

I never said you would be perfect. As I plainly stated in my previous post, we WILL sin. It's going to happen. But being perfect doesn't mean that we never sin. However, what effect do you think repentance has? Doesn't it mean your sins are forgiven? If your sins are forgiven, then what is wrong with you?

Christ himself was the only person who ever has or will live their life perfectly. This is exactly why he can be that third person spoken of in my analogy. It really seems clear you either didn't read it or didn't understand it at all. Please read it again.

You've ignored my statement previously about being Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omiscient. But hey.

I did address this. "But just so you know, that wouldn't happen until after Judgement Day, and by then it would be a little too late. And actually, my belief in not false, it is simply not accepted by you." That's from a previous quote, but please let me know if that still doesn't make sense.

Oh and where exactly were we commanded to be perfect? I would like to look that up.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 

OdiN

Banned
Mar 1, 2000
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Being perfect does mean never sinning as far as I'm concerned. As soon as you sin, you are not perfect. Yes you can be forgiven, but to be perfect is to never require forgiveness.

As for whatever is happening until after Judgement Day...that donesn't address the statement.

And that verse to me is not a commandment to be perfect as God is.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
2,070
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Originally posted by: OdiN
Being perfect does mean never sinning as far as I'm concerned. As soon as you sin, you are not perfect. Yes you can be forgiven, but to be perfect is to never require forgiveness.

As for whatever is happening until after Judgement Day...that donesn't address the statement.

And that verse to me is not a commandment to be perfect as God is.

I understand that this is how you feel. We obviously have differing opinions on several items, which is perfectly fine as far as I'm concerned.

As for not addressing your statement, I don't know how else to answer you. Mormons do not believe they will be perfect, or as you stated, omnipotent, omnipresent, or omniscient, until well after the Judgement Day. After that point in time, it will be irrelevant whether you give credit to our ideals. It will also be irrelevant whether you believe those ideas to be true or false. Therefore, I don't know how else to answer your question. You're asking me to become something I can't right now and saying that you won't believe it until you've seen it happen, by which time it would benefit you nothing to know.

As for the interpretation of the verse, such is your right to believe it says whatever you think it says. I have the right to believe as I do, and you have the right to believe as you do. But telling me that "I don't understand" or that "my belief is false" is not necessary, especially considering you don't really know that and have no evidence to prove it.

I would never criticize your belief system, or attempt to prove that your beliefs are wrong. If I have somehow offended you, I apologize. So why don't we leave it at the fact that we agree to disagree?
 

FeuerFrei

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Originally posted by: OdiN
Being perfect does mean never sinning as far as I'm concerned. As soon as you sin, you are not perfect. Yes you can be forgiven, but to be perfect is to never require forgiveness.

As for whatever is happening until after Judgement Day...that donesn't address the statement.

And that verse to me is not a commandment to be perfect as God is.
I agree. It doesn't imply sinless perfection, IMO. Lord knows that's impossible for born sinners. No one ever kept the Law. I think it means more of a mature godliness. (see Ephesians 4:12-13)
 
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