Who's Christian here?

[platinumike]

Non-denomonational Christian here. My faith is still in need of growth, Im trying to get deeper into the Bible.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

Matthew

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Metaphor of the anguish of eternal seperation from G-d. which is what someone who rejects a relationship with G-d is doing.

How about you just acknowledge that the texts can be interpreted differently? This is gray. You're just guessing that it's metaphorical and the other guy is just guessing that it's literal.

 

[Krazefinn]

I havent come out of the closet yet, so to speak. Is it safe? Too many whacky theoretical interpretations/fundamental misconceptions and not even reason. Quote from Isaiah something or other "come, let us reason together": not enough reasoning, and no coming together. Christianity has it backwards, its not about exclusivity or revenge. Is it not supposed to be inclusive and forgiving? And its not about getting the cookie, or being afraid of a vengeful god or hell (which is worse?)
Its more about doing the right thing for the right reason (because its right to do, not from fear of punishment, hope of reward, etc, see theory of human moral development). And its not about someone else deciding whats right for you, so quit hitting ab clinics, saying "i told ya so", or that you only have the inside line to truth. Even god gave adam and eve complete free moral agency. Who are christians to usurp that?

i'd rather consider myself "spiritual", thankyou

They used to feed christians to lions for sport...

 

[homestarmy]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

It's imagery when it's convenient for you for it to be imagery.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: DaShen


im positive there are many tribes which lack this concept completely. Mercy is not a universal concept.

Mercy and compassion are universal. Maybe not in their tribal beliefs about their god, but definitely universal. But who said the person had to repent to their god. Maybe they could repent to the UNKNOWN G-D (Acts 17:16?34).

you are wrong. Humans are not born knowing what mercy and compassion are. They are concepts defined by your culture. Im some tribal cultures mercy and compassion could be the greatest of "SINS"

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: platinumike
Non-denomonational Christian here. My faith is still in need of growth, Im trying to get deeper into the Bible.

non-denomonational is basically equivalent to evangelical
Mostly just read the Bible and talk to your pastor and you really can't go too wrong. Of course, use your noggin' and take other peoples ideas with a grain of salt.

Look up Norman Geisler for some rough theology. There is more theology you can look up, but his stuff should keep you preoccupied for at least a year or two. Josh mcDowell is less on theology, more apologetics if that is what you want.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

Matthew

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Metaphor of the anguish of eternal seperation from G-d. which is what someone who rejects a relationship with G-d is doing.

How about you just acknowledge that the texts can be interpreted differently? This is gray. You're just guessing that it's metaphorical and the other guy is just guessing that it's literal.

Hermeneutics

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

Matthew

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Please don't say I am taking things out of context.

Okay let's try a better translation:

41 ?Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ?Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.?

But wait! Where's the context? Let's back up, and show the whole thing:

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations

31 ?When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ?Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.?
37 ?Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ?Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?? 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ?Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.?
41 ?Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ?Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.?
44 ?Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ?Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?? 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ?Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.? 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.?

This is taken from Chapter 25, which are all parables. Are you sure you're interpreting this correctly?

 

[homestarmy]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

Matthew

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Metaphor of the anguish of eternal seperation from G-d. which is what someone who rejects a relationship with G-d is doing.

What if we don't give a crap about God? Why would we be in anguish? Your argument falls apart.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: DaShen


im positive there are many tribes which lack this concept completely. Mercy is not a universal concept.

Mercy and compassion are universal. Maybe not in their tribal beliefs about their god, but definitely universal. But who said the person had to repent to their god. Maybe they could repent to the UNKNOWN G-D (Acts 17:16?34).

you are wrong. Humans are not born knowing what mercy and compassion are. They are concepts defined by your culture. Im some tribal cultures mercy and compassion could be the greatest of "SINS"

Even between the family? parents and children.... :Q

Come on now, that totally begs the question. Children cannot function or develop without compassion from their parents. Of course it is a universal belief. It may not be within the tribal beliefs, but again, still universal.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: homestarmy

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

Matthew

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Metaphor of the anguish of eternal seperation from G-d. which is what someone who rejects a relationship with G-d is doing.

What if we don't give a crap about God? Why would we be in anguish? Your argument falls apart.

That is what you believe, but as a Christian, we believe eternal seperation from G-d, the Creator of the Universe (not going to get into how or why, just that I believe it was creating somehow by Him), will result in anguish. If G-d is love and we are seperated from G-d's love, then basically anyone seperated from G-d will be put in a world with no love.

 

[Boxxcar]

Originally posted by: DVK916
Well Mormons and JWs deny that Jesus is god.

Where do you get the idea that Jesus is god?

God is God and Jesus was the son of God.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: homestarmy

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

It's imagery when it's convenient for you for it to be imagery.

Uh huh... I guess I better take this literally:

Revelation 12
1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

 

[SP33Demon]

/signed hello

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Boxxcar

Originally posted by: DVK916
Well Mormons and JWs deny that Jesus is god.

Where do you get the idea that Jesus is god?

God is God and Jesus was the son of God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with G-d, and the Word was G-d. He was with G-d in the beginning. (John 1:1-2)

Then G-d said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26)

Many other scriptures that point this out (OT and NT), but I will leave it at that.

**EDIT**
No more flaming for me. I just wanted to show the non-Christians asking questions an interpretation from one Christians point of view. Don't want to get into a flame fest.

 

[mooncancook]

sometimes it helps me to understand more if I think of the relation of God and us like father and son, and assuming a father's role. Let's say if you are a father and you have a son. You love your son and care about him very much and want him to grow up well. But the son turns around and reject you, and goes live with someone you hate and calls him father. That would really hurt. As the father you'll just have to pretend that you don't have this son and let it go. But the amazing thing as a parent is, when the son realize he's wrong and wants to come back, the father would unconditionally forgive everything the son has done. That's kind of a way to think of how God treat us i guess.

But why God would put non-believer to Hell?
Well I think first you need to realized that all Earthly temptations were Satan's creation. He fell to the world and corrupts the world. Lots of ppl chose not to believe in Christ because they were tempted to believe something earthly, or they choose to do what they want, without realizing they are submitting and conforming to Satan. All sins are services to Satan. Most of the time ppl follow Satan without realizing it, because Satan is crafty. We Christians failed to resist Satan's tempation again and again too, but because of Christ we are saved. Satan knows he's going to hell and he wants to bring down as many ppl with him as he can. You might deny you follow Satan, but according to the Bible, every little sins we commit are signs that we do a lot of the times. By rejecting Christ, ppl will follow where Satan goes, whether you are being tricked by him or not.

That's how I view it at this stage of my Christian life.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Boxxcar

Originally posted by: DVK916
Well Mormons and JWs deny that Jesus is god.

Where do you get the idea that Jesus is god?

God is God and Jesus was the son of God.

:thumbsup:

 

[jlee]

<- Roman Catholic

 

[thirdlegstump]

Somehow I just KNEW that this thread was going to turn into something religion related.

 

[amdskip]

Christian here

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: deathkoba
Somehow I just KNEW that this thread was going to turn into something religion related.

Not surprising.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: DVK916
According to the bible we be tortured in hell. It will like burned alive, but you never die. You feel the pain of the fire forever and ever.

Name one verse. Preferably not one from Revelations which is full of metaphoric imagery.

Matthew

25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Please don't say I am taking things out of context.

Okay let's try a better translation:

41 ?Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ?Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.?

But wait! Where's the context? Let's back up, and show the whole thing:

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations

31 ?When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy[c] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ?Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.?
37 ?Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ?Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?? 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ?Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.?
41 ?Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ?Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.?
44 ?Then they also will answer Him,[d] saying, ?Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?? 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ?Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.? 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.?

This is taken from Chapter 25, which are all parables. Are you sure you're interpreting this correctly?

So you saying i can't just pluck 2 quotes out of the bible and read them litterally.

 

[cyclistca]

I worship the devil.

 

[engineereeyore]

As for the "eternal flames and fire" stuff, why is it determined that this is to be a physical flame or fire? Have you never felt fire within yourself? Have you never felt torment within yourself over something you should or shouldn't have done?

If you believe in the resurrection, then you believe that your spirit will be reunited with your body in perfect form. If this is the case, then what would be the point of physical fires? Your body is perfect and therefore incapable of feeling pain. What is not perfect, especially in the case of the sinner, is his spirit. Wouldn't it make more sense for the fire and torment to be spiritual rather than physical then?

 

[shoRunner]

Originally posted by: DVK916

So you saying i can't just pluck 2 quotes out of the bible and read them litterally.

if you just "pluck" quotes out of any book they may quite often be out of context