who's going to compete with Nvidia in gpu's now?

[meksta]

has there ever been a time where only ONE player existed in a certain market?

 

[CP5670]

I guess 3dfx was in that situation at one time.

 

[sisq0kidd]

3dfx.

And couldn't this be tacked on to the other thread(s)?

 

[sandorski]

ATI

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: meksta
has there ever been a time where only ONE player existed in a certain market?

Creative Labs has been in that position for awhile.

I think ATI is done in the high end market and I don't see anyone other than maybe Intel that can step up and take their place.

 

[hans030390]

I'm pretty sure Intel could own Nvidia...they have the resources...

 

[Lonyo]

Suddenly ATi is going to drop out of the graphics card business? Wow, when was this news published?

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Suddenly ATi is going to drop out of the graphics card business? Wow, when was this news published?

A sad day

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Suddenly ATi is going to drop out of the graphics card business? Wow, when was this news published?

it isn't . . . ATi is being 'acquired' by AMD

who knows what the future will bring? . . . at least AMD's future is assured with this merger

 

[ZimZum]

People are assuming that ATI will all of a sudden cease to compete in the high end sector but that would be silly. The high end drives the mid and low end markets. It wouldn't make sense for AMD to pay 5 billion dollars for a company just to destroy said company's business model.

 

[Ayah]

S3 ftw

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: ZimZum
People are assuming that ATI will all of a sudden cease to compete in the high end sector but that would be silly. The high end drives the mid and low end markets. It wouldn't make sense for AMD to pay 5 billion dollars for a company just to destroy said company's business model.

AMD does not care about ATI's business model. AMD cares about AMD's business model. AMD is more concerned with competing with Intel. So ATI's resources will now be focused on a similar task. It would make no sense for AMD to buy ATI and then leave it alone. They are going to probably use the high end GPU engineers to work on their CPU products. They may not even care about ATI's chipsets as AMD gave up on chipsets years ago. They are more interested in "platformitization". The main thing that AMD wants out of this deal is integrated and mobile solutions (which ATI is far ahead of AMD on).

That?s not to say that ATI cards are dead yet. R600 is too far along to scrap now, but I doubt you will see a R700. Which sucks. Because if that does happen, NVIDIA can slow down the release of new cards and virtually eliminate price cuts.

High end cards only matter to a pure video card company. In the future high end cards will be such a small market compared to integrated and mobile this may have happened anyway.

 

[TheRyuu]

Wait, ATI has been working on the R600 for years now, there going to release it and it'll probably be a kickass product like the X1900XT(X). Who knows, maby ATI will continue to compete in the High End market as well as the low end market. With AMD with ATI now, they can expand but they will still probably keep some people working on high end solutions.

 

[apoppin]

if nvidia is really 'left alone' in the gfx business it will also ceast to exist - given Wreckage's disaster scenario - Platforms will then totally destroy PC gaming.

i doubt seriously that AMD is gonna screw with ATi's R&D or GPU design . . . for a LONG time . . . . 3-5 years at least. . . . until their dream of 'platformization' comes true . . . then it won't matter - the AMD/ATi GFX solution will be able tohandle ANYthing the game makers care to toss at it.

at least that is my 'take'

 

[akugami]

It is fiction, or at best speculation. ATI exits the high end graphics market. Somehow all these fanboys are coming out of the woodwork to mourn, or at least predict, the demise of ATI's high end GPU business. The truth is that ATI is a highly successful business that could very well be more successful if their management team didn't try to kill itself off all the time. While ATI doesn't sell as much high end products as nVidia, they still do a very respectable chunk of that market and make a lot of money from it. There is no reason for AMD to kill this segment of the market off. The high end GPU research also fuels gaming consoles from which ATI earns royalties (Gamecube, Wii, Xbox 360).

It also makes sense for AMD to continue high end GPU development for the 4x4 platform which seems geared toward the high end enthusiast market and for workstations.

There is also the trickle down effect in that the high end GPU's of today are the mid and integrated GPU's of tomorrow. AMD is very very likely to provide tighter integration between their CPU's and integrated GPU's. This would provide a better package in the mobile arena that likely can increase performance while reducing power draw. The mobile market is becoming an increasingly important market. There is room for high end as well as low end in this market. Both make money and AMD would be stupid to kill off the high end mobile market which I believe will become larger and larger as more and more companies as well as individuals move to laptops instead of the tradtional desktop system or mid towers.

People also forget that while there is no question AMD acquired ATI so they can better compete with Intel, it is unlikely AMD will be doing things exactly as Intel has done them. After all, AMD didn't become successful by following Intel's path and instead forged ahead and created a better CPU.

The bad part is that both AMD and ATI's marketing departments suck. Maybe they should jettison that and hire a new marketing firm to do their work instead.

 

[TheRyuu]

Everybody thinking that ATI is going to die must be the same if they think AMD is going to die with C2D vs. K8.

I know this is a little OT, but the K8 is showing its age and is GETTING OLD. It's a simple fact. It's also another simple fact that the K8L is ON IT'S WAY so everybody who thinks ATI or AMD is going to die should just STFU.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: wizboy11
Everybody thinking that ATI is going to die must be the same if they think AMD is going to die with C2D vs. K8.

I know this is a little OT, but the K8 is showing its age and is GETTING OLD. It's a simple fact. It's also another simple fact that the K8L is ON IT'S WAY so everybody who thinks ATI or AMD is going to die should just STFU.

well .. . actually i would have to say that both companies were getting a little "stagnant" -especially AMD.

This is gonna benefit both AMD and ATi and there is NO way they are gonna kill off the High End GPU market - UNTIL they develop an alternative to it . . . their stated goal . . . that genius ArtX team who developed r300 are still alive and well at ATi, afaik . . . and they will influence AMD's designs for many years to come.

 

[nitromullet]

Yeah, I think it's too early to predict what is going to happen with the high end gpu market.

The scenario that no one has mentioned yet is that AMD and ATI might work to create a complete platform at all levels - entry, mid, and high. As it stands right now, chipsets are getting more and more propietary with SLI and Crossfire. Even now, your motherboard choice dictates not only which cpu but which dual card setup you can go with. If this continues (and you happen to have a merger between a cpu and a gpu company), the logical next step is a completely propietary platform that works with only one kind of cpu and one kind of gpu - the trade off that you would make in exchange for flexibilty is price and performance that can not be matched by an "open" platform. They could make a platform that consists of two sockets, one for gpu and one for cpu with the for each coming in high, mid, and low end versions, all they would have to do is mix and match them for the different market segments. That is just one scenario, I'm sure they will think of many more...

It is obvious that AMD wants/needs a complete platform to compete against Intel, wouldn't it make sense then to make inroads into a segment that Intel on it's own couldn't compete in? Intel alreadty has very good mobile and low/mid range platforms that both Dell and Apple have adopted. What if AMD choose to go after the high end graphics workstation market and gamer/ethusiast (because they really aren't that different) and produce a complete platform for that market. Intel has nothing to counter that, and would have to go to NV for it's graphics solution if they wanted to compete in that space.

I find it interesting that everyone talks about how the high end market is not really of any concern to Intel or AMD, but that more and more we see products that compete in that space. Just a few years ago, Intel motherboards were green and boring, period. Fast forward a bit to today, and you have AT reviewing the 975BX motherboard for the conroe release - it's black and it's definitely geared towards the enthusiast market. Sure, it still doesn't touch the Asus of DFI for OC'ing, but give them time. We might see a "LanParty" style UV line from Intel yet. These companies aren't stupid, they realize that the ehthusiast market is relatively small, but they also know that us enthusiasts act as consultants to everyone that we know who aren't buying the high end parts, and they want us to be familiar with their products so we can recommend them.

Anyway, it really is too early to tell what is going to happen with AMD/ATI yet... Hopefully, ATI will continue to compete with NVIDIA as AMD in the high end space, and hopefully the merger will make them even more competative instead of less. If not, we can only hope the gpu engineers leave and join another firm (maybe XGI), or start their own. We need the competiton in this space, and I'd hate to see the talent at ATI go to waste.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: ZimZum
People are assuming that ATI will all of a sudden cease to compete in the high end sector but that would be silly. The high end drives the mid and low end markets. It wouldn't make sense for AMD to pay 5 billion dollars for a company just to destroy said company's business model.

AMD does not care about ATI's business model. AMD cares about AMD's business model. AMD is more concerned with competing with Intel. So ATI's resources will now be focused on a similar task. It would make no sense for AMD to buy ATI and then leave it alone. They are going to probably use the high end GPU engineers to work on their CPU products. They may not even care about ATI's chipsets as AMD gave up on chipsets years ago. They are more interested in "platformitization". The main thing that AMD wants out of this deal is integrated and mobile solutions (which ATI is far ahead of AMD on).

That?s not to say that ATI cards are dead yet. R600 is too far along to scrap now, but I doubt you will see a R700. Which sucks. Because if that does happen, NVIDIA can slow down the release of new cards and virtually eliminate price cuts.

High end cards only matter to a pure video card company. In the future high end cards will be such a small market compared to integrated and mobile this may have happened anyway.

i don't know how you could say in one sentence that amd isn't interested in ati's chipset business and then in the next sentence say that amd wants platforms and integrated graphics out of this.

anyway, i bet you continue to see high end graphics out of amd/ati because they'll want a piece of the console market (don't forget that ati is in both the xbox 360 and the wii, and it will probably prove very lucrative for them)

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Anyway, it really is too early to tell what is going to happen with AMD/ATI yet... Hopefully, ATI will continue to compete with NVIDIA as AMD in the high end space, and hopefully the merger will make them even more competative instead of less. If not, we can only hope the gpu engineers leave and join another firm (maybe XGI), or start their own. We need the competiton in this space, and I'd hate to see the talent at ATI go to waste.

If the gpu engineers left ATi and started their own company, do you think they could survive against Nvidia? I mean... it's not easy establishing a new graphics company, especially against NVidia. Unless they did something revolutionary.... but who knows.

 

[imported_inspire]

Personally, I think ATi will still compete. If AMD's Torrenza platforms actually does what it's supposed to using HTX Slots, ATi may have a big jump on NVidia - linking the GFX card directly to the HTT bus will really relieve bottlenecks.

 

[hans030390]

Oh wait, I forgot to mention that I will be making my own video cards now. Yeah...that's Nvidia's competition.

I think my first card will be a quad core card, each clocked at 5 billion gigahertz, and it will have 1tb worth of memory, clocked at 10 billion gigahertz. Not to mention, it has a bajillion pipelines and runs DirectX 14 (shader model 8)...yyeeeaaaahhh...it's pretty sweet. Oh, it will also be a PCI only card (not PCI-e).

Here I come Nvidia!

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: inspire
Personally, I think ATi will still compete. If AMD's Torrenza platforms actually does what it's supposed to using HTX Slots, ATi may have a big jump on NVidia - linking the GFX card directly to the HTT bus will really relieve bottlenecks.

That's kind of along the lines of I was thinking with the platform idea.

If the gpu engineers left ATi and started their own company, do you think they could survive against Nvidia? I mean... it's not easy establishing a new graphics company, especially against NVidia. Unless they did something revolutionary.... but who knows.

It is a tough industy to get into, but I would think that if anyone could get venture capital to start a gpu company it would be the brains behind either ATI or NV... I'm sure that XGI (if they are still in the game at all) would be willing to scoop any of these guys up.

 

[fierydemise]

I think the better question is how will nVidia compete with AMTI and Intel? With AMTI aiming for CGPUs by 2008 its very likely that Intel will push development of its own tech, so by 2008 we should have AMTI and Intel CGPUs. CGPU's are theoretically faster then a discrete GPUs so unless nVidia hops aboard with intel or AMTI or tries to create their own CGPUs they're going to be left out cold.

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: akugami
It is fiction, or at best speculation. ATI exits the high end graphics market. Somehow all these fanboys are coming out of the woodwork to mourn, or at least predict, the demise of ATI's high end GPU business. The truth is that ATI is a highly successful business that could very well be more successful if their management team didn't try to kill itself off all the time. While ATI doesn't sell as much high end products as nVidia, they still do a very respectable chunk of that market and make a lot of money from it. There is no reason for AMD to kill this segment of the market off. The high end GPU research also fuels gaming consoles from which ATI earns royalties (Gamecube, Wii, Xbox 360).

It also makes sense for AMD to continue high end GPU development for the 4x4 platform which seems geared toward the high end enthusiast market and for workstations.

There is also the trickle down effect in that the high end GPU's of today are the mid and integrated GPU's of tomorrow. AMD is very very likely to provide tighter integration between their CPU's and integrated GPU's. This would provide a better package in the mobile arena that likely can increase performance while reducing power draw. The mobile market is becoming an increasingly important market. There is room for high end as well as low end in this market. Both make money and AMD would be stupid to kill off the high end mobile market which I believe will become larger and larger as more and more companies as well as individuals move to laptops instead of the tradtional desktop system or mid towers.

People also forget that while there is no question AMD acquired ATI so they can better compete with Intel, it is unlikely AMD will be doing things exactly as Intel has done them. After all, AMD didn't become successful by following Intel's path and instead forged ahead and created a better CPU.

The bad part is that both AMD and ATI's marketing departments suck. Maybe they should jettison that and hire a new marketing firm to do their work instead.

Wrong, high end GPU market is nothing in cash compared to the CPU market, ATI is going to die...