Who's going to produce the first dual-cored CPU?

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
I was under the impression that AMD had plans to go the dual-core route long before intel unveiled their plans to abandon the P4 platform and go with the duallies.

The thing is, intel has a massive R&D infrastructure. Do any of you know of roadmaps which show which company will have a dual-cored CPU first?

Please no flame wars, I know I have mentionned the names of the two mortal enemies in one post, but we are here for intellectual discussion, nothing more. :beer:
 

Swanny

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
7,456
0
76
I think Intel will, just because they have more R&D and they need it more.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
I guess it's like the tortoise and the hare, except the tortoise has a substatial head start.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
30
91
Originally posted by: Swanny
I think Intel will, just because they have more R&D and they need it more.
Yeah, I think Intel feels like they're "behind", since the Athlon64 has been such a big seller.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
I don't think we are going to see any real "demand" for dual core CPUs until WinXP SP2 comes out this summer.

Since the current version does not support dual processors (a Microsoft oops), but this is being corrected with SP2.

Once people can see a proper performance gain from using 2 CPUs they will get a larger appetite for dual core CPUs.

That's my take on this anyway.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
16,968
2
0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
I was under the impression that AMD had plans to go the dual-core route long before intel unveiled their plans to abandon the P4 platform and go with the duallies.
Keep in mind that just because that was the first you heard about it, certainly doesn't mean it's when Intel started working on them.
 

nowayout99

Senior member
Dec 23, 2001
232
0
76
Exactly, new CPUs take years to R&D. The chatter just started picking up more recently since the products are finally starting to come into view.

Intel did say they were accelerating their dual-core schedule, but they're already past the "hump" in R&D. It's not something thrown together in a matter of months or anything like that.
 

gwag

Senior member
Feb 25, 2004
608
0
0
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Will the intel have HyperThreading? Quad-CPU effectively? :Q

you dont believe hyperthreading equals 2 cpu'S DO YOU? its more like hyperthreading eauals .95-1.05 CPUs. speeds up some things slows down some things.
 

gwag

Senior member
Feb 25, 2004
608
0
0
Originally posted by: Aelius
I don't think we are going to see any real "demand" for dual core CPUs until WinXP SP2 comes out this summer.

Since the current version does not support dual processors (a Microsoft oops), but this is being corrected with SP2.

Once people can see a proper performance gain from using 2 CPUs they will get a larger appetite for dual core CPUs.

That's my take on this anyway.

WHAT? Windows 2000 Professional and Windows XP Professional both support 1-2 processor configurations out of the box. all apps may not use it but some do.
 

gwag

Senior member
Feb 25, 2004
608
0
0
As far a dual core goes IMB has had them for years (power 4), my guess is Macs will have them first along with X-box and new maybe new playstation. AMD may beat Intel as I think they are/will get some help from IBM. Intel may have they most for R&D but look what they get for it, they are not really ahead of any one, Itainium anyone? millions of dollars and no where? Pentium 4 fast but not really built for speed not really speed. Celeron oops 1.4 duron owns a 2.4 Celeron costs half as much and the core is the same as a P4 put some more cache on that sucker(they are going to soon)as far Hyper Threading people think it such a big deal but all it does is SIMULATE dual core to more efficiently utilize the "un-efficient" pipeline(wich is not so bad on the. Note, whenever performance is tested on a HT box, it's disabled as having multiple threads running on a highly optimized code stream can actually hinder performance. some things are faster and some are slower so who needs it well I guess the Prescott does with its 31 stage beast, all along I have been thinking overall speed Intel speed would ramp up when the came out with 256k L2 Celerons until just now since it will be based on the Prescott core. some folks also like to rave about the Pentium M its good technology better speed per MHz but it doesn't use that much less power that an XP mobile and they are faster save maybe the new Dolthan but its probably 3 times the cost. this may read like an anti Intel post, its not their stuff is good but you would think that since they have more than 20 times(just guessing lot more I bet who knows) the resources. you would think the would be a clear technological leader like the way ATI and NVIDIA are in the 3-d world vs VIA, S-3 etc. at least ATI and Nvidia are of simair size.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Hyperthreading doesn't slow down things anymore, and it speeds up some things quite a lot. Just look at Duvie's thread. I think you are behind the times on HT, gwag.

The original version of HT did slow down some apps, but that was a long time ago and it was only enabled on xeons.
 

clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
1
0
hmmmmmmmm, anyone know if Nehalem is still on the drawing board ? i cant recall if it was duel core ( i dont think it wasnt suppose to be), however was pinned to take off after Tejas which we all know has been canceld.
 

Compddd

Golden Member
Jul 5, 2000
1,864
0
71
I think Nehalem was supposed to hit 10 GHz. Don't think thats happening anytime soon
 

Falloutboy

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2003
5,916
0
71
I think intel scraped netburst which tejas and nehalem were based on. thier going back to the p3 for thier next product
 

Falloutboy

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2003
5,916
0
71
Originally posted by: Aelius
I don't think we are going to see any real "demand" for dual core CPUs until WinXP SP2 comes out this summer.

Since the current version does not support dual processors (a Microsoft oops), but this is being corrected with SP2.

Once people can see a proper performance gain from using 2 CPUs they will get a larger appetite for dual core CPUs.

That's my take on this anyway.


umm not sure what your talking about but winxp pro has always suported dualies
 

Nemesis2038

Member
May 26, 2004
89
0
0
I have to go with AMD being first because of the partnership they have with IBM. IBM has already demonstrated being able to produce Multi CPU cores and since the Opteron is already designed for it the transition should be smoother than Intel's.

All in all it shouldnt matter as I suspect both of them will release dual core chips months apart from one another.

The real questions are does Intel plan on allowing those same chips to be used to double up single sockets like AMD is planning. Meaning a 2 CPU system with an AMD dual core chip can be made into a quad processing system. Cool Idea I wonder if they can pull it off.

But then we will also have to wait 10 years for games to utilize that power. But then Duke Nukem Forever will be in Beta.
 

ToeJam13

Senior member
May 18, 2004
504
0
0
Microsoft Windows NT has always been multiprocessor enabled, all the way back to NT 3.5 (and most likely NT 3.1).

Here is a chart that I dug up that describes multiprocessor support in NT:

NT 3.5 and 3.51
[*]Workstation: 2
[*]Server: 4

NT 4.0
[*]Workstation: 2
[*]Server: 4*

Win 2K
[*]Professional: 2
[*]Server: 4
[*]Advanced: 8
[*]Datacenter: 32

Win XP
[*]Home: 1**
[*]Professional: 2**
[*]Server: 4**
[*]Enterprise: 8**
[*]Datacenter: 32

* Out of the box HALs allowed for 4 maximum, although custom OEM HALs could reach 32 processors.
** Physical CPUs. Allows for twice the number of logical "hyperthreading" virtual sub-processors.

I guess the problem that I've been reading is that Intel's hyperthreading is not quite the same as being a true multi-processor system, so Microsoft had to add some glue to the HAL in order to take advantage of it. That's why Microsoft issued a patch for Windows 2000, and why its still evolving in XP.

If you created a multiple CPU on a chip system, each completely independent from each other, then you wouldn't need such a hacked HAL to support it. Now that IBM and AMD are on friendly terms, and IBM has shown that it can do multiple CPUs on a chip, perhaps AMD will license/copy it for their own chips.


keywords: max SMP multi-CPU multi-core multi-processor Windows NT 3.5 3.51 4.0 5.0 5.1 2000 2K XP
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: Nemesis2038
But then we will also have to wait 10 years for games to utilize that power. But then Duke Nukem Forever will be in Beta.
LOL...I think Alpha would be a stretch. :beer:
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
Originally posted by: Falloutboy525
Originally posted by: Aelius
I don't think we are going to see any real "demand" for dual core CPUs until WinXP SP2 comes out this summer.

Since the current version does not support dual processors (a Microsoft oops), but this is being corrected with SP2.

Once people can see a proper performance gain from using 2 CPUs they will get a larger appetite for dual core CPUs.

That's my take on this anyway.


umm not sure what your talking about but winxp pro has always suported dualies

That's what my friend told me. I didn't belieave him at first but he said he was 100% sure. Apperantly he is full of crap.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Will the intel have HyperThreading? Quad-CPU effectively? :Q

The pipeline on the Pentium-M architecture is too short to take advantage of HT effectively.
Even if it's not as powerful as the P4 incarnation, wouldn't it be a boost nonetheless?
 

Falloutboy

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2003
5,916
0
71
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Will the intel have HyperThreading? Quad-CPU effectively? :Q

The pipeline on the Pentium-M architecture is too short to take advantage of HT effectively.
Even if it's not as powerful as the P4 incarnation, wouldn't it be a boost nonetheless?

not nesesarely as you saw with the p4 thier are some instances were it hurts performance. I have a feeling this problem would be more so in a shorter pipeline chip. also with dual core thiers little point to hyper threading thier are very few programs that efectively use 2 cpu's much less 4
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Well, if I run Windows Task Manager right now there are tons of processes all running at once. Surely 4 CPUs could be doing something useful all at the same time.

In any event, you're probably right, the performance boost is probably slim to none, and there is a good chance performance would actually go down. Oh well.
 

Mloot

Diamond Member
Aug 24, 2002
3,042
25
91
What I'm really itching to see is how dual-core Dothans match up against dual-core Opterons.
 
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