who's the best baseball player in the MLB right now?

[James Bond]

Thought I would add this to the Ricky/Ichiro argument:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUD7XRpTpGw&feature=related

 

[angminas]

Thought I would add this to the Ricky/Ichiro argument:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUD7XRpTpGw&feature=related

Did you see that guy's face? (You can in another video.) This is the moment when people in America learned that Ichiro was for real. If you liked that one, check out Rick Ankiel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElNJzE04YhQ&NR=1

This is also why defense matters in baseball. When there's a great fielder out there, it gets in your head, disrupts your rhythm, deflates your enthusiasm, makes you afraid to throw a knockout punch. It's the defensive version of good baserunning.

 

[Jadow]

Prince Fielder is killing the ball right now, hes the current #1

 

[RabidMongoose]

So...Ichiro not so hot...screwing my fantasy baseball team

Hmm...guess he's not the 2nd most valuable hitter in baseball anymore. Yup, sure wasn't tough to know that he actually wasn't #2, unless you have some bizarre method to value players.

 

[rcpratt]

Prince Fielder is killing the ball right now, hes the current #1

Not even close to Bautista, Cabrera, Gonzales.

 

[BeauJangles]

Best single player at this moment? Impossible to say. A few worth considering:

Jose Bautista - Nobody is hitting the ball better than he has since the start of last season. No one. .333 / .489 / .686 PLUS he walks 23% of the time. His ISO is the highest in the majors at .352. He's a beast and the contract the Jays signed him to might rival Longoria's for the most team-friendly in baseball.

Roy Halladay - 9.13 k / 9, 1.12 BB / 9, 112 IP (most in the majors) and a 2.56 ERA, which is probably a little unlucky due to how well he's pitching. He's far and away the best pitcher on the planet right now.

Jose Reyes - Yup. He's been downright filthy. .345/.388/.525 triple slash from a SS, though some of that might be from an inflated BABIP. Sexy.

Adrian Gonzalez - Probably gets a little more credit than he deserves simply because he plays for the BoSox, but he has been nothing short of spectacular. .343 / .395 / .580. His ISO isn't as high as most people would expect ( .237 ), but he's hit and hit and hit, all while playing some of the best defense in the game at 1B.

Cole Hamels - Probably the best guy not named Halladay throwing the ball right now. 8.94 k/9, 1.75 BB / 9, 2.49 ERA. So similar to Halladay that it's scary.

Other guys worth mentioning, who won't get mentioned:

Matt Kemp, Rickie Weeks, Joey Votto, Prince Fielder, A-Rod, Granderson, Zobrist, Tulo, Andrew McCutchen.

Other guys who will get mentioned, but don't deserve it (not at this moment):

Ichiro, Pujols, Howard, Teixeira, Berkman, Ortiz

Other guys who aren't quite there, but should get some consideration based on their age and contract status:

Mike Stanton, Matt Wieters, Elvis Andrus, Danny Espinosa

 

[actuarial]

Nice to see Bautista getting the love he deserves. He's on a major cold streak the last few weeks though, but he walks so much it hasn't hurt his OBP much.

Also, since Lind is back he's killing it as well. Not much better 1-2 punch in baseball (and upon checking a bunch of top pairs, they seem to have the highest combined OPS). They'd definitely be leading in combined WAR if not for Lind missing a bunch of the season so far (and may still be anyways).

 

[Homerboy]

Nice to see Bautista getting the love he deserves. He's on a major cold streak the last few weeks though, but he walks so much it hasn't hurt his OBP much.

Also, since Lind is back he's killing it as well. Not much better 1-2 punch in baseball (and upon checking a bunch of top pairs, they seem to have the highest combined OPS). They'd definitely be leading in combined WAR if not for Lind missing a bunch of the season so far (and may still be anyways).

Better than Braun followed by Fielder?

 

[SP33Demon]

Best single player at this moment? Impossible to say. A few worth considering:

Jose Bautista - Nobody is hitting the ball better than he has since the start of last season. No one. .333 / .489 / .686 PLUS he walks 23% of the time. His ISO is the highest in the majors at .352. He's a beast and the contract the Jays signed him to might rival Longoria's for the most team-friendly in baseball.

Roy Halladay - 9.13 k / 9, 1.12 BB / 9, 112 IP (most in the majors) and a 2.56 ERA, which is probably a little unlucky due to how well he's pitching. He's far and away the best pitcher on the planet right now.

Jose Reyes - Yup. He's been downright filthy. .345/.388/.525 triple slash from a SS, though some of that might be from an inflated BABIP. Sexy.

Adrian Gonzalez - Probably gets a little more credit than he deserves simply because he plays for the BoSox, but he has been nothing short of spectacular. .343 / .395 / .580. His ISO isn't as high as most people would expect ( .237 ), but he's hit and hit and hit, all while playing some of the best defense in the game at 1B.

Cole Hamels - Probably the best guy not named Halladay throwing the ball right now. 8.94 k/9, 1.75 BB / 9, 2.49 ERA. So similar to Halladay that it's scary.

Other guys worth mentioning, who won't get mentioned:

Matt Kemp, Rickie Weeks, Joey Votto, Prince Fielder, A-Rod, Granderson, Zobrist, Tulo, Andrew McCutchen.

Other guys who will get mentioned, but don't deserve it (not at this moment):

Ichiro, Pujols, Howard, Teixeira, Berkman, Ortiz

Other guys who aren't quite there, but should get some consideration based on their age and contract status:

Mike Stanton, Matt Wieters, Elvis Andrus, Danny Espinosa

Berkman doesn't deserve it? Are you high? He's hit 5 HRs in the past 8 games and ranks:
• 2nd in NL in OPS (1.050)
• 3rd in NL in HR (17)
• 4th in NL in BB (41)
• 6th in NL in RBI (48)
• 9th in NL in BA (.313)

If you've been following baseball this year, he's at the forefront of every NL MVP discussion. His OPS is almost as high as Gonzales and his park is nowhere near as hitter friendly as Fenway.

 

[BeauJangles]

Berkman doesn't deserve it? Are you high? He's hit 5 HRs in the past 8 games and ranks:
• 2nd in NL in OPS (1.050)
• 3rd in NL in HR (17)
• 4th in NL in BB (41)
• 6th in NL in RBI (48)
• 9th in NL in BA (.313)

If you've been following baseball this year, he's at the forefront of every NL MVP discussion. His OPS is almost as high as Gonzales and his park is nowhere near as hitter friendly as Fenway.

He's having a phenomenal season, but there's no way he's the best player in baseball. None.

The only argument you can make about Berkman being the best player in baseball is that he's the best pure hitter and that isn't even true. There are several guys in front of him (Fielder, Cabrera, Kemp) before you even get to Bautista, who is far and away a superior hitter in every way, shape, and form.

Beyond hitting, Berkman is lacking. He can't field. So when you factor in his complete package (elite offense with barely passable defense) there is absolutely no way he's the "best" player in baseball.

edit:

If you've been following baseball this year, he's at the forefront of every NL MVP discussion.

By that measure, Derek Jeter is one of the best defensive short stops of our generation.

 

[SP33Demon]

He's having a phenomenal season, but there's no way he's the best player in baseball. None.

The only argument you can make about Berkman being the best player in baseball is that he's the best pure hitter and that isn't even true. There are several guys in front of him (Fielder, Cabrera, Kemp) before you even get to Bautista, who is far and away a superior hitter in every way, shape, and form.

Beyond hitting, Berkman is lacking. He can't field. So when you factor in his complete package (elite offense with barely passable defense) there is absolutely no way he's the "best" player in baseball.

edit:



By that measure, Derek Jeter is one of the best defensive short stops of our generation.

Not saying he's better than Bautista, but he could easily win MVP for the NL if you read what I wrote which should easily qualify him in your "worth mentioning" list. The fact that you put him in some stupid category called "Other guys who will get mentioned, but don't deserve it (not at this moment)", is false since he could easily win NL MVP, period. He would deserve it based on his hitting alone, and is batting better than every single NL guy you put in the Other guys worth mentioning, who won't get mentioned: list (Matt Kemp, Rickie Weeks, Joey Votto, Prince Fielder, Tulo, Andrew McCutchen) except Kemp (barely).

To make things worse, you then complain about Berkman's "barely passable defense" after your "worth mentioning" list contains 4 guys who are below the league average at their position (Kemp, Weeks, Votto, Fielder = negative dWAR). As a result, Mr. Berkman should be moved into your "worth mentioning" list; nobody is even in his stratosphere at the plate (OPS+) except Mr. Kemp by 1.5% (196 vs 193).

 

[Oyeve]

Some Bio-engineered Dominican that can't speak english.

 

[BeauJangles]

Not saying he's better than Bautista, but he could easily win MVP for the NL if you read what I wrote which should easily qualify him in your "worth mentioning" list.

So Dustin Pedroia deserved to be in the running for the best player in baseball when he won his MVP?

Ryan Howard was a better player than Albert Pujols when he won his MVP?

Winning an MVP is nothing more than winning a popularity contest and guys like Berkman immediately get a leg up because they're feel-good stories. Berkman is having a great season thus far, but he isn't an MVP and certainly isn't the best player in the game.

The fact that you put him in some stupid category called "Other guys who will get mentioned, but don't deserve it (not at this moment)", is false since he could easily win NL MVP, period.

Dustin Pedroia? Jimmy Rollins? Are you kidding? There are guys who win MVPs who aren't even the best players on their teams. The MVP is a popularity contest, nothing more.

He would deserve it based on his hitting alone,

If he didn't have to play defense, he'd certainly be a lot more valuable. His defense, however, is awful.

Here’s where you’re also missing my point. Not all offense is created equally. The offensive demands of a first baseman are much higher than the offensive demands of a short stop because, traditionally, it is MUCH easier to find a guy who can hit 30 homers will manning first. That is just as true today as it was twenty years ago.

Berkman cannot play left. He simply can’t do it and every time he trots out there for the Cardinals, he’s hurting their team defensively. By every metric, his defense is way, waaaaaay below average in LF. It isn’t too hot at 1st, either.

and is batting better than every single NL guy you put in the Other guys worth mentioning, who won't get mentioned: list (Matt Kemp, Rickie Weeks, Joey Votto, Prince Fielder, Tulo, Andrew McCutchen) except Kemp (barely).

“Best player” does not mean “guy who can hit the ball hardest / farthest.” Which is more valuable, 30 home runs from first base or 30 home runs from short stop? Which is harder to find on the open market? It’s the guy who is producing elite offense from positions that are offense-deficient and that’s why guys like Tulo, McCutchen, and Weeks ALL deserve consideration for the best player in baseball at this moment. Weeks is playing plus defense while managing to put up the best offensive numbers this side of Robinson Cano (who, again, isn’t exactly a great defender).

Guys like Tulo are so valuable because they churn out offense (and defense) from positions that are much harder to find competent offensive players. Why is Mauer considered so great? Because he has a 1B bat, but plays catcher. Move him to first and he goes from being one of the most valuable players in baseball to a good, but not great, 1B. That’s why Victor Martinez didn’t get resigned by the Red Sox. He’s a great player when he’s behind the dish because his bat is so valuable there, but, move him to first, and his bat becomes solidly average.

McCutchen is the same way. He’s playing the best CF defense in baseball right now while hitting 10 homers, getting himself on base, and driving in runs. You don’t talk about him because he plays for the Pirates and because he doesn’t have 20+ homers, but the guy is a beast behind the plate.

As for Kemp, he’s just better than Berkman right now. His defense is even worse than Berkman, but he’s been better with the bat. Kemp has displayed slightly more power, gotten on base at a much better clip, etc. He’s struck out more and walked less, yet still sports a better OBP and a better OPS, OPS+, and wRC+ (by a mile).

To make things worse, you then complain about Berkman's "barely passable defense" after your "worth mentioning" list contains 4 guys who are below the league average at their position (Kemp, Weeks, Votto, Fielder = negative dWAR).

Baseball-reference / UZR

Kemp = -3 / -7.9
Weeks = -1 / +2
Votto = 0 / +2.5
Fielder = -1 / +0.4
Berkman = -5 / -5.1

So your argument is that because they’re all negative, they’re all equally bad? That’s silly. By either of these metrics, Kemp and Berkman stand out as especially bad. Guys like Weeks, Votto, and Fielder have basically been average. That’s a big difference.

As a result, Mr. Berkman should be moved into your "worth mentioning" list; nobody is even in his stratosphere at the plate (OPS+) except Mr. Kemp by 1.5% (196 vs 193).

For someone who was so eager to bring up field normalization, why not normalize OPS+ while we’re at it:

Kemp: 193
Berkman: 176

Gonzalez: 171
Bautista: 219
Fielder: 176
Votto: 166

Berkman is having a great season, he’s holding the Cards up right now, but he isn’t the best player in baseball right now and saying so it taking away from a lot of other guys who are much, much more deserving of that title. Berkman has been hoisted up because he’s having a sublime season and because he’s a great story, but that doesn’t make him the best player in baseball and there aren’t many argument-based numbers that could back that up.

 

[Perknose]

I agree with most of what you said, Beau. Essentially, arguing about who's the true MVP or the "best player in baseball" is a fool's errand.

But I had to laugh a bit a you saying this first quote below just after saying the second line:

Which is more valuable, 30 home runs from first base or 30 home runs from short stop?

[MVP] Dustin Pedroia? Jimmy Rollins? Are you kidding?

No, I am not kidding.

You can argue whether Jimmy Rollins was the most deserving recipient in 1997 if you must, but you simply can't dismiss his win with "Are you kidding?"

That's wretched rhetorical excess on your part.

As a matter of FACT, Rollins DID hit 30 home runs from the SS position! He also hit 38 doubles and led the majors with an additional 20 triples!

He also scored 139 runs that year to lead all of MLB, and drove in an amazing 94 rbi from the lead-off position!

And he stole 41 bases while only being caught 6 times.

ALL THIS while playing SS well enough to win his first of three consecutive Gold Gloves. Note I am not necessarily saying he was the best SS on sabermetric counts, but he did field this defensively critical position damn well.

Given all this, I'm sure you'd agree in retrospect that "Are you kidding?" is not a reasonable response to his MVP win that year, is it?

 

[BeauJangles]

..

I %^&*ed up.

Rollins had a ridiculous season and I shouldn't have lumped him in like that with Pedroia, who I love, but never, eeeeever deserved the MVP. I was in a hurry putting that post together.

Rollins is an example, though, of a guy who won an MVP despite having an equally good (if not slightly better) teammate on his team that year. Either way, it isn't a theft like Ryan Howard's MVP or Justin Morneau's.

My bad, I stand 110% corrected

 

[SP33Demon]

So Dustin Pedroia deserved to be in the running for the best player in baseball when he won his MVP?

Ryan Howard was a better player than Albert Pujols when he won his MVP?

Winning an MVP is nothing more than winning a popularity contest and guys like Berkman immediately get a leg up because they're feel-good stories. Berkman is having a great season thus far, but he isn't an MVP and certainly isn't the best player in the game.



Dustin Pedroia? Jimmy Rollins? Are you kidding? There are guys who win MVPs who aren't even the best players on their teams. The MVP is a popularity contest, nothing more.


<snip for length>

MVP is based on hitting, no sht. How much does defense contribute to WAR? And to quote only 2 screwups in the last 10 years is a testament that the writers usually get it right (Howard over Pujols, Pedobear over Youk). RE: Rollins, what Perk said. To say the MVP is a popularity contest shows that you are just talking out of your ass.

Trying to explain why certain positions are worth more is just stupid, save your breath. If you're so interested in how much defense is worth, then just look at WAR. I'm not going to argue that Berkman's defense isn't below average, but my point was that you are a hypocrite for critisizing his while listing others like Fielder who are also below the league average. Not to mention Reyes, who is also way below average at his position. In fact, Reyes has the same exact dWAR as Berkman @ -0.6. Methinks you didn't think your "ranking" through all that much, but it's ok.

Also, you put Reyes in a category above Kemp for MVP which is just wrong. Let's include "defense" (or lack thereof for these guys) this time:

Kemp WAR: 4.4
Reyes WAR: 3.0

Berkman is only at 2.5 but that's because he missed a good chunk (WAR is cumulative). If he keeps up his OPS to current levels he will be challenging Kemp for MVP. Reyes could as well due to his speed/power numbers but he's more of a longshot on the Mets and doesn't have as much lineup protection as Berkman.

 

[KGB]

If I see anyone refer to WAR ONE MORE FUCKIN' TIME I'M GONNA PUKE!!!

WAR is a made-up stat and has NO REAL MEANING.

 

[KGB]

Getting back on topic (and I didn't read the entire thread), are we talking about the BEST player this minute, this week, this month, or this season?

OR, as we should be talking about... who is the player we can tell out grandkids, or great grandkids "I saw him play. He was the best."

 

[rcpratt]

If I see anyone refer to WAR ONE MORE FUCKIN' TIME I'M GONNA PUKE!!!

WAR is a made-up stat and has NO REAL MEANING.

I hate to break it to you, but all stats are made up.

 

[SP33Demon]

If I see anyone refer to WAR ONE MORE FUCKIN' TIME I'M GONNA PUKE!!!

WAR is a made-up stat and has NO REAL MEANING.

Translation: It's mathematical metric that I don't understand, so it's dumb.

 

[Insomniator]

Best player atm is clearly Jose Reyes

 

[BeauJangles]

MVP is based on hitting, no sht.

No need to get upset, we're just talking baseball.

How much does defense contribute to WAR?

That depends on which WAR figures you use, which defensive metrics you use, etc.

And to quote only 2 screwups in the last 10 years is a testament that the writers usually get it right (Howard over Pujols, Pedobear over Youk).

Morneau makes three screw-ups. But, you're still missing the point. The MVP isn't always the best player in the league, even when the writers don't objectively "screw up." The writers are biased toward feel good stories, toward players that play for big-name teams, toward players who perform toward the end of the season, etc.

RE: Rollins, what Perk said. To say the MVP is a popularity contest shows that you are just talking out of your ass.

There's no argument here besides your opinion. The MVP race is influenced by a lot of factors that go beyond on-the-field performance and, unless you have a Barry Bonds-type year from a player, voters tend to pick popular players on popular teams and often ignore players who played as good (if not better) baseball on more obscure teams.

That's the way it is, and that's fine. It makes the MVP a crappy way of picking out the "best" player in the game though.

Trying to explain why certain positions are worth more is just stupid, save your breath. If you're so interested in how much defense is worth, then just look at WAR.

I'm not attacking you, so there's no need to be so defensive.

Fine, let's look at WAR.

Bautista - 4.7
McCutchen - 3.9
Reyes - 4.2
Hamels - 3.3
Halladay - 4.0
Kemp - 3.9
Votto - 3.4
Weeks - 3.2
Fielder - 3.1
Tulo - 2.8
Berkman - 2.6

What is your point? Berkman isn't the best player in the game, or in his league, by WAR, either.

I'm not going to argue that Berkman's defense isn't below average, but my point was that you are a hypocrite for critisizing his while listing others like Fielder who are also below the league average.

Look at the numbers. Fielder has been right around league average if a touch below. Berkman is nowhere near league average. He's a measurably worse defender. I'm not being a hypocrite, I'm looking at the data and seeing that, yes, Fielder might be slightly below average, but he's not nearly as far below average as Berkman or Kemp.

Do you disagree?

Not to mention Reyes, who is also way below average at his position. In fact, Reyes has the same exact dWAR as Berkman @ -0.6. Methinks you didn't think your "ranking" through all that much, but it's ok.

You haven't thought any of this argument through because you've insisted on taking everything I say personally. Don't. We're talking baseball here.

Look at the numbers:

dWAR (BR) / UZR / UZR/150

Reyes: -0.6 / 0.1 / 3.7
Berkman: -0.6 / -3.6 / -12.6

Who is the better fielder? Reyes. Even if you don't buy that, Reyes has STILL been more valuable to his team because of his position-adjusted offense than Berkman has.

Also, you put Reyes in a category above Kemp for MVP which is just wrong. Let's include "defense" (or lack thereof for these guys) this time:

Kemp WAR: 4.4
Reyes WAR: 3.0

Let's look at their numbers, fine.

BR WAR / FG WAR

Berkman: 2.5 / 2.6
Reyes: 3.0 / 4.2
Kemp: 4.4 / 3.9

It really depends on which defensive metrics you think are right. Given that I believe UZR / 150 and UZR to be more accurate, I'm inclined to side with FG. Either way, I don't see what your point is, both of those guys have been more valuable than Berkman. Period. Reyes is a better defender than Berkman. Kemp has been swinging a better bat.

Berkman is only at 2.5 but that's because he missed a good chunk (WAR is cumulative). If he keeps up his OPS to current levels he will be challenging Kemp for MVP.

And if Kemp keeps tearing the cover off the ball, he won't be. Speculation doesn't do us much good, especially when the question is who is the best player right now, not who will be the best player in three months.

For the record, I'm not even a big fan of Kemp's. He's a terrible defender and I've never liked his approach at the plate. He's still really good, though.

Reyes could as well due to his speed/power numbers but he's more of a longshot on the Mets and doesn't have as much lineup protection as Berkman.

Sure, but the season is only 40% of the way through. Speculating on the MVP right now is going to get us even less far than trying to figure out who is "best."

And, while we're at it, I just want to point out why Votto (besides the raw numbers) is "better" -- he's younger and cheaper. You can build a team around him and he delivers numbers better than Berkman without the $14.5 million dollar price tag which means that the Reds can invest in other positions of need. He's less of an injury risk and he's less of a decline risk.

 

[BeauJangles]

If I see anyone refer to WAR ONE MORE FUCKIN' TIME I'M GONNA PUKE!!!

WAR is a made-up stat and has NO REAL MEANING.

So what stats are "meaningful?" And why is WAR so useless?

 

[actuarial]

Better than Braun followed by Fielder?

Statistically, yes. Note: those who hate advanced statistics need not read the rest of this post.

In terms of OPS or wOBA:
Bautista > Fielder
Lind > Braun

Fielder/Lind/Braun are basically a pick'em based on these stats. Bautista way out in front.

In terms of War (fangraphs.com):
Bautista + Lind = 7.0
Fielder + Braun = 6.3

In terms of Offensive War (baseball-reference.com)
Bautista + Lind = 6.4
Fielder + Braun = 6.2

And Lind's War is dragged down from missing a bunch of the year so far. Basically, Lind is statistically having a similar season to both Fielder and Braun, but Jose is crushing all three. Take any of Fielder/Braun/Lind and pair them with Bautista and no other pair would match statistically.

I apologize for mixing War sources, but I couldn't find offensive only War from fangraphs.

 

[KGB]

Translation: It's mathematical metric that I don't understand, so it's dumb.

Eat me.

HERE'S ANOTHER BS STAT.