Rant Why America is descending into chaos - liberal policies against law enforcement

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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,645
10,503
136
At least we have free public restrooms at train stations and elsewhere in this country.
That was an eye opener when I found myself really needing to take a piss at the Glascow train station. Yep, pay to pee is at least a UK thing in public places.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
He didn't bring it into chaos, he just accelerated the trend. The US had been on a bullet train to self-destruction for a while already.

As a Dutchman who has lived in LA for near 30 years, I believe the problem is the complete lack of nuance in what should CLEARLY be very involved and deep discussions and analyses. A friend of mine in Holland calls it "Binary Wisdom", like "mask work" without specifying what "work" means exactly. Americans are used to making everything easier and simpler, leading to a more and more childish culture, and world-view.

You can see it in the tribalism between the "right" and the "left", which as a foreigner seem more similar than different, yet have devolved into endless screaming and name-calling. There is no more middle. You can see it in the way folks talk about the homeless; about half of my neighbors, including MANY Dems have zero compassion, grouping them ALL together as losers, drug addicts and worthless humans, with NO room for the nuance and crucial details that might help in easing this disaster.

In general, we must be VERY careful with making things easier, because they're quite often not better that way. Look at the convenience of cars: it's helped make Americans fatter than whales, together with the incredibly easy availability of food 24/7. The echo chambers of Social Media have made connecting with like-minded individuals a cakewalk, resulting in LESS exposure to a challenging opinion or two which you might be exposed to in the old world simply by being surround by those have them.

So now, we're at a point where half the women in this country get more and more unhappy as they inevitably get old, because the women they see on TV are "not aging". They will risk their lives with operations to try to look younger, putting disgusting plastic sacks in their chests, slicing their faces, starving themselves, and what do the men do: at least half ENCOURAGE this kind of behavior, because they TOO want to stay children their entire lives.

And now there's Covid. Expertly mismanaged by BOTH Trump AND Biden, but the criticism from the people I know is almost PERFECTLY aligned by Political affiliation. It's Tribalism at its worst and it WILL lead to the self-destruction of the US if we're not careful.


Oh look, Mr. Bothsides is back.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
When you have a core group of people that find it offensive to take a billion dollars from someone worth 200 billion and put it towards social safety net programs. When you have a core group of people that when you talk about higher wages, find it offensive. When you have a core group of people that if you dare talk about not letting top 500 corporations pay almost nothing in income taxes they call it communist

We will never solve these problems in America as long as those people exist. Yes, there are many reasons for homelessness but a big one is just placing no value for core things.
dude, you're fucking pathetic. You bitch about a guy who's going to pay over $12 billion in taxes in a single year. That's most ever paid by single individual in history of our country. His tax rate is 54% and highest percentage under our current tax laws.

And you keep repeating Tesla factory employees get paid less than other automotive factory workers while providing zero proof. All the figures and stories I've read say the opposite and Tesla Fremont factory employees are paid higher than any American union automotive factory workers when benefits like stock compensation are added. Every Tesla factory employees receive Tesla stock as part of their compensation. So unless you can provide proof Tesla factory workers get paid less than union counterparts when total compensation are calculated, quit repeating your stupid lies.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
That was an eye opener when I found myself really needing to take a piss at the Glascow train station. Yep, pay to pee is at least a UK thing in public places.
That's not UK thing. That's Europe thing. People take public restrooms in this country for granted. In Europe, you have to pay to pee and poop when out in public.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
Oh look, Mr. Bothsides is back.
What another eye-opening comment from the "feralkid". His contributions to these threads are just magnificent, aren't they? ACTUALLY name-calling for trying to find a middle. If that doesn't make my point, I don't know what would!
 
Reactions: Pohemi

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
The top marginal tax rate was greater than 77% for most of of the 20th century.
At one time, it was over 90% (during end of WW2 and until the 60s).
Correct. But that's not today. A person can only pay much as the current tax code. And he's paying max under our current tax code. I would go after other billionaires before attacking Musk who's paying $12 billion to $15 billion in taxes in a single year. If you step back and think about the amount, $12 billion is insane number.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,645
10,503
136
That's not UK thing. That's Europe thing. People take public restrooms in this country for granted. In Europe, you have to pay to pee and poop when out in public.
You know Glascow, Scotland is in the UK.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
What another eye-opening comment from the "feralkid". His contributions to these threads are just magnificent, aren't they? ACTUALLY name-calling for trying to find a middle. If that doesn't make my point, I don't know what would!


I dunno, maybe you could remind everyone that you're Dutch and have lived in L.A. for 30 years, you seem to think that makes you an expert in American politics.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,783
20,140
136
dude, you're fucking pathetic. You bitch about a guy who's going to pay over $12 billion in taxes in a single year. That's most ever paid by single individual in history of our country. His tax rate is 54% and highest percentage under our current tax laws.

And you keep repeating Tesla factory employees get paid less than other automotive factory workers while providing zero proof. All the figures and stories I've read say the opposite and Tesla Fremont factory employees are paid higher than any American union automotive factory workers when benefits like stock compensation are added. Every Tesla factory employees receive Tesla stock as part of their compensation. So unless you can provide proof Tesla factory workers get paid less than union counterparts when total compensation are calculated, quit repeating your stupid lies.

We know you worship Elon, especially because he is tied to your wealth. And we know you truly care about only rich people, because you oppose anything for the common good, but things that make your investments better. If Elon could pay his factory workers $4 an hour, you'd be happy.

"The issues start with wages. According to Moran and co-workers, wages range from $17 to $21 an hour, well below the $29.04 national average hourly wage for motor vehicle manufacturing. Tesla claims stock awards push total compensation above autoworker averages, but workers counter that the stock doesn't fully vest until four years of service. "I can't tell a little kid, I'll feed you in a year," Ortiz said. Raises and promotions are also rare; Ortiz mentioned a colleague who received only one increase in seven years.

Tesla workers make luxury vehicles that can cost $90,000 or more but, unlike the people at Henry Ford's plant, have no chance of buying one.
"Seventeen dollars to $21 without a lot of benefits is not much higher than you can get being a gardener or a hotel clerk," said Nelson Lichtenstein, a labor history professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara."



"Jose Moran, a production worker at the Fremont plant, wrote in an online blog post that workers typically earn between $17 and $21 per hour, below the national average for a U.S. autoworker of $25.58 per hour.
In an interview, Moran said many workers were concerned about low morale and heavy workloads. Some concerns have been brought up at yearly meetings with management, he said, but many workers are afraid to speak up.

“We didn’t seem like we were getting a fair shake,” he said.

Moran, a 43-year-old husband and father of two, has been with the company for four years. He said he’s proud of the work he’s done at Tesla to produce innovative, electric vehicles. But even with a steady paycheck, he said, it’s hard to make ends meet in the Bay Area. He commutes from Manteca, spending three hours a day in his vehicle, and can put in 60-70 hours per week.

In November and December, employees worked almost every Saturday to keep up with demand, he said.

“Ironically, many of my co-workers who have been saying they are fed up with the long hours at the plant also rely on the overtime to survive financially,” Moran wrote.

 
Reactions: eikelbijter

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
We know you worship Elon, especially because he is tied to your wealth. And we know you truly care about only rich people, because you oppose anything for the common good, but things that make your investments better. If Elon could pay his factory workers $4 an hour, you'd be happy.

"The issues start with wages. According to Moran and co-workers, wages range from $17 to $21 an hour, well below the $29.04 national average hourly wage for motor vehicle manufacturing. Tesla claims stock awards push total compensation above autoworker averages, but workers counter that the stock doesn't fully vest until four years of service. "I can't tell a little kid, I'll feed you in a year," Ortiz said. Raises and promotions are also rare; Ortiz mentioned a colleague who received only one increase in seven years.


"Seventeen dollars to $21 without a lot of benefits is not much higher than you can get being a gardener or a hotel clerk," said Nelson Lichtenstein, a labor history professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara."



"Jose Moran, a production worker at the Fremont plant, wrote in an online blog post that workers typically earn between $17 and $21 per hour, below the national average for a U.S. autoworker of $25.58 per hour.
In an interview, Moran said many workers were concerned about low morale and heavy workloads. Some concerns have been brought up at yearly meetings with management, he said, but many workers are afraid to speak up.

“We didn’t seem like we were getting a fair shake,” he said.

Moran, a 43-year-old husband and father of two, has been with the company for four years. He said he’s proud of the work he’s done at Tesla to produce innovative, electric vehicles. But even with a steady paycheck, he said, it’s hard to make ends meet in the Bay Area. He commutes from Manteca, spending three hours a day in his vehicle, and can put in 60-70 hours per week.

In November and December, employees worked almost every Saturday to keep up with demand, he said.

“Ironically, many of my co-workers who have been saying they are fed up with the long hours at the plant also rely on the overtime to survive financially,” Moran wrote.

lol. Just like I thought. No proof. Yeah, stocks are not real money. Tell that to longtime Tesla factory workers who became millionaires from their Tesla stocks they received as part of their compensation.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
I dunno, maybe you could remind everyone that you're Dutch and have lived in L.A. for 30 years, you seem to think that makes you an expert in American politics.
As a foreigner living in the US for most of his adult life, I DO have a different view on the politics of the country than citizens, I wasn't raised with all the hangups etc.

And you? Do you have ANYTHING valuable to say? Or are you just trolling?
 
Reactions: Pohemi

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,783
20,140
136
lol. Just like I thought. No proof. Yeah, stocks are not real money. Tell that to longtime Tesla factory workers who became millionaires from their Tesla stocks they received as part of their compensation.

Yes the average Tesla factory worker these days is going to become a millionaire. You are truly smoking the crack cocaine of worshipping Elon.

I'm sure some super early employees that got in on the first floor made out quite well, just like in a variety of tech companies that started in garages or what not but blew up, but those are just really rare exceptions - but it's typical of misinformation carrot on a stick lies to then say that's just how it is. Come put Tesla's together, get paid less than the industry average, but you'll become a millionaire! Give me a fucking break. And you repeat it like a dutiful cult member.

Elon does not want his employees to unionize because then they'd have to be paid more like the industry average with actual better safety standards in place. You hate unions too, because you look at worker drones as robots just to help your investments get rich.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
As a foreigner living in the US for most of his adult life, I DO have a different view on the politics of the country than citizens, I wasn't raised with all the hangups etc.

And you? Do you have ANYTHING valuable to say? Or are you just trolling?


Not trolling; just further exposing an arrogant, pedantic, anti-vax jackass who has shown himself to be both a liar and a fool.

You've been exposed, yet you keep trying to peddle your misguided, worn out tropes on this forum.

Shame on you.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,251
28,107
136
Correct. But that's not today. A person can only pay much as the current tax code. And he's paying max under our current tax code. I would go after other billionaires before attacking Musk who's paying $12 billion to $15 billion in taxes in a single year. If you step back and think about the amount, $12 billion is insane number.
I would go after anyone who bitches about infrastructure spending who took advantage of it earlier in his career. He's a hypocrite.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,422
8,386
126
That's not UK thing. That's Europe thing. People take public restrooms in this country for granted. In Europe, you have to pay to pee and poop when out in public.
we barely have public restrooms in this country. the last big wave of construction was in the 1950s as the interstate system was built out. if you're out and about in the US and need to go you better hope there's a walmart or home depot nearby, or if you're lucky there's a holiday inn express.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
I would go after anyone who bitches about infrastructure spending who took advantage of it earlier in his career. He's a hypocrite.
He didn't lobby for the law. He took advantage because it was available. Just like you would write off things on your taxes or take advantage of some rule if it applied to you. GM lobbied for the $7,500 EV tax credit and got it. Tesla and GM benefitted and both used up the 200k $7,500 EV tax credit. GM is again lobbying US government to pass the new BBB bill which contains up to $12,000 EV tax credit with $4,000 credit for union made.

Everyone is a hypocrite when it favors them. Those who say they're not are fucking liars. I'm a hypocrite if it favors me. But I own it.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
Not trolling; just further exposing an arrogant, pedantic, anti-vax jackass who has shown himself to be both a liar and a fool.

You've been exposed, yet you keep trying to peddle your misguided, worn out tropes on this forum.

Shame on you.
I'm NOT an anti-vaxxer you dumbo, how many times do you need to hear something before it gets into your thick skull buddy? I very much believe in modern medicine and science in general.

SHAME ON YOU!
 
Reactions: Pohemi

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,251
28,107
136
He didn't lobby for the law. He took advantage because it was available. Just like you would write off things on your taxes or take advantage of some rule if it applied to you. GM lobbied for the $7,500 EV tax credit and got it. Tesla and GM benefitted and both used up the 200k $7,500 EV tax credit. GM is again lobbying US government to pass the new BBB bill which contains up to $12,000 EV tax credit with $4,000 credit for union made.

Everyone is a hypocrite when it favors them. Those who say they're not are fucking liars. I'm a hypocrite if it favors me. But I own it.
That's fine but either keep your yap shut about current infrastructure or admit it up front before bitching. "Yeah I know my companies took advantage of it but now I'm against it"
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,689
2,811
126
we barely have public restrooms in this country. the last big wave of construction was in the 1950s as the interstate system was built out. if you're out and about in the US and need to go you better hope there's a walmart or home depot nearby, or if you're lucky there's a holiday inn express.
At least you can walk into most businesses and use their restrooms for free if available. In Europe, you usually have to buy something in order to use their restroom unless you find US business franchise like McDonald's or something.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,947
18,265
146
At least you can walk into most businesses and use their restrooms for free if available. In Europe, you usually have to buy something in order to use their restroom unless you find US business franchise like McDonald's or something.

Buy something anyways.
 
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