Why an HD3870?

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Short answer: The 8800GT is higher performing, and doesn't cost too much more if you go by MSRP.
 

Shortass

Senior member
May 13, 2004
908
0
76
MSRP is worthless, but nice try. Availability and heat issues are plaguing the 8800gt, but performance and some availability issues are hurting the 3870 as well. They're both good for their price, whatever you can find for a cheaper price it generally a decent solution.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
I like how the 3870 spits the air right out the back of the case. It's hurting me very much to know I'm probably going to go with a 8800GT.
 

Butterbean

Banned
Oct 12, 2006
918
1
0
If I was going to get a 3870 (and I probably will once the newer non reference cards are out - like the HIS ICQ 3) it would be for: better compatibility with my ATI 650 tuner; lower noise at idle; much better multi-card performance ( Crossfire multiplies performance factors much better than SLI); better HD/Blu Ray performance; better use of multiple displays in a HTPC config, HDMI connections (although it doesn't use the best HDMI standards as yet); a different grahic/image quality some consider better. Of course along with the things I consider positives are the ATI drivers that always seem to light up my "Event Viewer" in mysterious ways. I have lost whole weeks of my life futzing with ATI All-In-Wonder card drivers.

My impressions of ATI cards are that they put more of an emphais on things like drawing and geometry tasks (sometimes a reason given for ATI drivers being buggy- more mathmatically complex) while NV juices some texturing more. Nvidia can skip on drawing to get the frame rates up. Two recent reviews mentioned this trait with regard to Crysis:

"Even the latest NVIDIA driver didn't fix one serious bug: reflections on water are drawn with a big delay, that is there is a certain lag inside a scene. It has to do with optimizations for this game - if you rename the EXE file of the game, this lag disappears, but the game becomes slower. That is NVIDIA developers draw reflections with the lag of several frames. That is, one draw, five skips. That's why reflections are jerking, which produces an impression of lagging. "

http://www.digit-life.com/arti...o/g92-part3-page2.html

Reviewer added latter:

About CRYSIS. "Yep, about those optimizations, because of which reflections on the water are not drawn each frame. It spoils the overall impression, although it appears only in DX10 Very High mode. As if the developers were desperate to accelerate the game. And they did it haphazardly.

When the article was ready to be published, we received information from BFG Russia that NVIDIA promised to fix all problems in CRYSIS in the official release of drivers by the time the game comes out officially. "


Another reviewer mentioned this same problem ( and included pics):

"We found ATi HD3870 is actually has better picture process while Crysis benching. Specially the light refraction from water, HD3870 is very smooth but 8800GT is not. It is around frame 500 to 1000."

http://iax-tech.com/video/3870/38704.htm

Reviewer was then informed about the "fix" for water issue and saw fps go down:

"I don't know what nVidia do to 169.04 but we can see the MAX FPS drops from 30 to 20FPS and the max frame is same as ATi 3870."

http://iax-tech.com/video/3870/38705.htm

I think Nvidia absolutely clips some Image quality to gain performance and that's not been any secret. But Nvidia is still quality card of course. Besides there are people who like the faster frames for shooting and such and don't mind clipped image quality - in fact they will often clip it themselves and leave filters off etc. Its probably hard to see difference most times bewteen mostly equal cards. However the emphsis that can be put on some benches just isn't what it can look like because the makers do have some different approaches that dont compare just like apples and oranges etc.

Here's an older article that predates the NV 8000 series of cards but it gives some insights till into the different approaches and uses pics:

http://www.digit-life.com/arti.../quality_settings.html
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
That stuff is old news. 7 series and X1 series IQ comparison. I think everybody knows who held the IQ crown.

Water issue has already been fixed.

The 8800GT has simply more horse power than the HD3870. IQ theoretically is better with the 8 series because of the kind of AA mode it supports and near perfect AF. Rendering is almost identical.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: Butterbean
"Water issue has already been fixed. "

..and the horsepower went down.

In what game? And by what percentage, with which drivers?
 

praesto

Member
Jan 29, 2007
83
0
0
http://www.computerandvideogam...925baf1e27d95d9ce59051

Horsepower went down? In which way did the horsepower go down? Please provide some kind of evidence for such claims. We all agree that the water reflection bug has been resolved. Nobody can deny that. Now let us see some proof that suggests performance has decreased.

I can't believe how obsessed people are with image quality comparisons between 8800 and 38xx series. There was IQ difference between 1xxx and 7xxx series, but that was back THEN, okay? The most silly thing I come across at forums are people claiming that one should buy a 3870 instead of a 8800gt, because NATURALLY (emphazise this word), the ATI gfx IQ MUST be better. If it was in the former generation, it has to be so in this generation too, right?....Right?

No.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
whats the big debate? The HD3870 is a little slower and a little cheaper than the 8800GT. That is all there is to it.

If you find them at the same price the GT is a better deal. If you find the HD for significantly cheap than it is the better deal. If you find them both reasonably priced than its up to what you want to spend and who is your favorite company.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
cooling solution and price... that's about it I figure.

Oh yeah, it runs cooler and uses less energy in idle.
 

imported_Section8

Senior member
Aug 1, 2006
483
0
0
I got my HD3870 cheaper and sooner. If I could have found a cheaper 8800 gt I would have went with it. As it is, I have no regrets.
 

SilentRunning

Golden Member
Aug 8, 2001
1,493
0
76
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Butterbean
"Water issue has already been fixed. "

..and the horsepower went down.

In what game? And by what percentage, with which drivers?

I am pretty sure he is referring to Crysis. Can't remember where I read about the water issue, but they renamed the executable and the water issue disappeared.

When the executable was renamed the max fps went down, but the average fps went up. So it was really some crappy optimization that was a wash in the end.

With the executable renamed, the 8800GT and the HD3870 performed comparably.

This is why I hate relying on reviews that post just the max fps or just the average fps.

 

nubian1

Member
Aug 1, 2007
111
0
0
I have no regrets on my HIS 3870 purchase. With my 20.1" LG wide LCD & max resolution of 16800x1050I am very happy with the performance of this card. I do plan on going Crossfire in the very near future but besides that there are other points to consider. Going the 3870 Crossfire Capable route also allowed myself to have a much larger selection of great motherboards, Intel Chipset Based, to choose from as compared those who are going SLI with an Nvidia based Motherboard. If you plan on going single card only then the sky's the limit you can select a board from either camp.

I & most others use their PC for more than just gaming & with good HDMI out & solid multi display support the my 3870 is a pleasure to use.
The inherent design (Quiet Cooler venting to the outside of the case), power consumption & feature set (UVD,HDMI, Overlay,ect) of the 3870 lends itself perfectly for HTPC & Monitor/Television setups as well. I have to add overclockability since getting something (More performance) for nothing is always a thrill.

The 8800GT is definitely a great card this is for sure. The choice of card though shouldn't rest on a given cards' performance in one or two games such as Crysis, but in your needs & what you expect from this product now & in the future. Crysis is just one of the games I play, and IMHO is not a good "absolute" indicator by any means of which card anyone should buy since there is usually so much more than just this one game or gaming as a whole for that matter to take into consideration.

Personally my choice was made by weighing a few things. Feature set, performance, availability, flexibility, overall design & price, driver quality, overclocking & software support & development.

In the end I believe that the choice you make is a very personal one and whichever one you decide, enjoy it to the fullest.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: nubian1
I have no regrets on my HIS 3870 purchase. With my 20.1" LG wide LCD & max resolution of 16800x1050I am very happy with the performance of this card. I do plan on going Crossfire in the very near future but besides that there are other points to consider. Going the 3870 Crossfire Capable route also allowed myself to have a much larger selection of great motherboards, Intel Chipset Based, to choose from as compared those who are going SLI with an Nvidia based Motherboard. If you plan on going single card only then the sky's the limit you can select a board from either camp.

I & most others use their PC for more than just gaming & with good HDMI out & solid multi display support the my 3870 is a pleasure to use.
The inherent design (Quiet Cooler venting to the outside of the case), power consumption & feature set (UVD,HDMI, Overlay,ect) of the 3870 lends itself perfectly for HTPC & Monitor/Television setups as well. I have to add overclockability since getting something (More performance) for nothing is always a thrill.

The 8800GT is definitely a great card this is for sure. The choice of card though shouldn't rest on a given cards' performance in one or two games such as Crysis, but in your needs & what you expect from this product now & in the future. Crysis is just one of the games I play, and IMHO is not a good "absolute" indicator by any means of which card anyone should buy since there is usually so much more than just this one game or gaming as a whole for that matter to take into consideration.

Personally my choice was made by weighing a few things. Feature set, performance, availability, flexibility, overall design & price, driver quality, overclocking & software support & development.

In the end I believe that the choice you make is a very personal one and whichever one you decide, enjoy it to the fullest.

Have you considered writing ads?

 

madh83

Member
Jan 14, 2007
149
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: nubian1
I have no regrets on my HIS 3870 purchase. With my 20.1" LG wide LCD & max resolution of 16800x1050I am very happy with the performance of this card. I do plan on going Crossfire in the very near future but besides that there are other points to consider. Going the 3870 Crossfire Capable route also allowed myself to have a much larger selection of great motherboards, Intel Chipset Based, to choose from as compared those who are going SLI with an Nvidia based Motherboard. If you plan on going single card only then the sky's the limit you can select a board from either camp.

I & most others use their PC for more than just gaming & with good HDMI out & solid multi display support the my 3870 is a pleasure to use.
The inherent design (Quiet Cooler venting to the outside of the case), power consumption & feature set (UVD,HDMI, Overlay,ect) of the 3870 lends itself perfectly for HTPC & Monitor/Television setups as well. I have to add overclockability since getting something (More performance) for nothing is always a thrill.

The 8800GT is definitely a great card this is for sure. The choice of card though shouldn't rest on a given cards' performance in one or two games such as Crysis, but in your needs & what you expect from this product now & in the future. Crysis is just one of the games I play, and IMHO is not a good "absolute" indicator by any means of which card anyone should buy since there is usually so much more than just this one game or gaming as a whole for that matter to take into consideration.

Personally my choice was made by weighing a few things. Feature set, performance, availability, flexibility, overall design & price, driver quality, overclocking & software support & development.

In the end I believe that the choice you make is a very personal one and whichever one you decide, enjoy it to the fullest.

Have you considered writing ads?

I can't believe someone used driver quality as a plus!? They haven't been able to implement something as simple as aspect scaling for 4 years.

 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Vs. the 8800GT? Is it just a price point issue?

It's not even a price point issue with all the sales I have seen.

It should be a price point issue, but price points have been jacked up except for at Bestbuy and Dell where they have sold it reasonably, especially this last sale for 194 (BB). That is a very nice deal. Goes out of stock so soon though.
 

nubian1

Member
Aug 1, 2007
111
0
0
That is just one of the things I considered not necessarily the best thing that ATI does by no means. Read the post.
 

nubian1

Member
Aug 1, 2007
111
0
0
I have had the same things to say about my past Nvidia based card purchases depending on what was important to me at that time.

IMHO, all this video card religion is bunk. Like anything else in electronics do all the research & purchase what fits your needs not the needs of others.
 

ochadd

Senior member
May 27, 2004
408
0
76
I game at 1280x1024. 3870 on Newegg for $219 while an 8800GT is selling for $300+. Every game I've played so far has been plenty playable at max IQ settings. I refuse to pay a premium for 14 month old technology even if it is on a smaller process. This will get me by until Nvidia decides the 8800 has been milked for all its worth or ATI pulls a rabbit out of it's hat.

Edit: Even in Crysis the 8800GT doesn't justify the extra price premium imho. When you're talking real world gaming ability the 8800GT is a great card but so is the 3870.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
Originally posted by: nubian1
IMHO, all this video card religion is bunk. Like anything else in electronics do all the research & purchase what fits your needs not the needs of others.

:thumbsup: Best post so far!

My order for the 8800GT from Dell has been further delayed as of yesterday to 1/11 or something. I think Dell may be trying to force cancellations or something, because they make you have to contact them to keep the backorder, or else they cancel.

I placed the order because of the low shipped cost. If I can't get an 8800GT at that price, then I'll be looking for alternatives. The 3850 at $144 from Best Buy is looking mighty good, but I'd go for a 3870 if I can find one around $200 just for the external exhaust.

What I'd really love to get would be an 8800GTS 512MB, if I can find one for around $300. Top notch performance with external (and reasonably quiet) exhaust FTW!
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Originally posted by: ochadd
I game at 1280x1024. 3870 on Newegg for $219 while an 8800GT is selling for $300+. Every game I've played so far has been plenty playable at max IQ settings. I refuse to pay a premium for 14 month old technology even if it is on a smaller process. This will get me by until Nvidia decides the 8800 has been milked for all its worth or ATI pulls a rabbit out of it's hat.

Edit: Even in Crysis the 8800GT doesn't justify the extra price premium imho. When you're talking real world gaming ability the 8800GT is a great card but so is the 3870.

Glad that the HD3870 is working out for you, it's a great card for the money.

However, the argument that G92 is old tech since it is essentially a shrink of G80 is not really valid. RV670 is really just a re-spin of R600, which is also a year old and arguably inferior tech to G80. RV670 does improve upon R600, but it still can't touch G80. Which, as you mentioned, is 14 month old tech...
 
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