Why Are Americans So Anti- Diesel?

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Gas engines have typically been faster, without any smell/loudness sterotypically associated with diesel. Gas is almost free in the US, so people have no motivation towards gas conservation, which is why it represents a small priority in the purchase decision of most.

where can i get free gas? i spent 30 bucks filling up my gas tank today. i'll get maybe 5 days use out of that. hardly free. could it be worse? yeah it could be, but it's not free.

my next vehicle purchase is going to be highly motivated by mpg.

 

[Aquaman]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Gas engines have typically been faster, without any smell/loudness sterotypically associated with diesel. Gas is almost free in the US, so people have no motivation towards gas conservation, which is why it represents a small priority in the purchase decision of most.

where can i get free gas? i spent 30 bucks filling up my gas tank today. i'll get maybe 5 days use out of that. hardly free. could it be worse? yeah it could be, but it's not free.

my next vehicle purchase is going to be highly motivated by mpg.

Compared to other countries.......... you guys have it good on the gas prices.

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Tiamat
Exhaust is very very polluting, and smells real bad. Not that normal gasoline isnt just as polluting. It just looks bad when you have a ton of dark colored smoke emitted into the air. It is also expensive.

However, on the other hand, Diesel is more efficient because it burns at a higher temperature ~ think theoretical Carnot heat engine where temp difference is the driving force for higher efficiency.

that's just ignorance based on old data. do some research and try again.

You do some research. That is current data. A lot of places diesel passenger cars can't be sold because of emmissions. While gas creates more CO2 it has far less particulates.

i have done research. i looked into buying a tdi when i bought my gti. there was no smelly trail of smoke coming out from behind the test car i drove, but hey maybe it was MAGIC.

NO, maybe it was NEW.

I have worked on mostly gas engines, BUT diesels if not keep up will turn the rear bumper black easy.

Go test drive a average 5+ year old Diesel car.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Simple reason:

Gas is cheaper in NA than in Europe. This means that MPG is less relevant in making a buying decision. It's the same reaon you have smaller cars.

No, the real reason is that the diesel cars sold in the US in the not so distant past were noisy, smelly, slow, black smoke spewing, unreliable pieces of sh!t. Except for pickup trucks and VW, manufacturers have not seen fit to show Americans how much better the new diesel technology is. Then diesels have the drawback of being more expensive to purchase and Americans, with their odd ways, will happily be nickeled-and-dimed every day at the pump but God help they pay too much at the dealership!

 

[pmoa]

just like why arent we metric???

 

[Wahsapa]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BullyCanadian
What about those Hydrogran Fueled cars?

They seem good, but there is one thing of concern, if someone in a hydrogen fuel car gets into a bad accident, will the hydrogren explode?

It certainly could, but it shouldn't really explode any more readily than a 15 gallon tank of gasoline, I don't think.

Hydrogen isn't a viable alternative unless we start building nuclear power plants to produce electricty to produce hydrogen. That could change, though.

Energy, energy, energy. Oil is virtually our only source of it. Unfortunately, we can't just pull it out of our asses.

Bio-Diesel


and about the 'emissions' issue...
if a Golf TDI can be sold in LA then it can be sold anywhere

edit: also compared to most other countrys we have the cheapist gas prices. and 5+ year old diesels arnt around any more... we're talking about the new diesels here, the ones we are making today, not the ones that we're made 5+ years ago. also the same can be said about any car that isnt kept properly not just diesels.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Aquaman

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Gas engines have typically been faster, without any smell/loudness sterotypically associated with diesel. Gas is almost free in the US, so people have no motivation towards gas conservation, which is why it represents a small priority in the purchase decision of most.

where can i get free gas? i spent 30 bucks filling up my gas tank today. i'll get maybe 5 days use out of that. hardly free. could it be worse? yeah it could be, but it's not free.

my next vehicle purchase is going to be highly motivated by mpg.

Compared to other countries.......... you guys have it good on the gas prices.

Cheers,
Aquaman

It's simply not comparable. High gas prices in Europe are because of excessive taxation, not because of the cost of fuel. Americans either pay taxes for comparable government services in other ways or don't receive the government service (in that case, because they probably don't want it).
Canadian gas prices are comparable to US gas prices, so kindly no Canadians trying to think otherwise. In Europe, they fund their healthcare and social security-esque programs off gas, and that is simply bullsh!t -- in order to maintain fair representative taxation, the form of taxation should match the service, i.e. gas taxes should pay for roads and transportation services ONLY.


BTW, modern diesels can be pretty fast. A couple of months ago, I saw a big crew cab Dodge 4x4 with a Cummins pulling mid-12's down at PIR.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Aquaman

Originally posted by: fisher

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Gas engines have typically been faster, without any smell/loudness sterotypically associated with diesel. Gas is almost free in the US, so people have no motivation towards gas conservation, which is why it represents a small priority in the purchase decision of most.

where can i get free gas? i spent 30 bucks filling up my gas tank today. i'll get maybe 5 days use out of that. hardly free. could it be worse? yeah it could be, but it's not free.

my next vehicle purchase is going to be highly motivated by mpg.

Compared to other countries.......... you guys have it good on the gas prices.

Cheers,
Aquaman

eh mostly because they tax it to hell, self imposed.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Wahsapa

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BullyCanadian
What about those Hydrogran Fueled cars?

They seem good, but there is one thing of concern, if someone in a hydrogen fuel car gets into a bad accident, will the hydrogren explode?

It certainly could, but it shouldn't really explode any more readily than a 15 gallon tank of gasoline, I don't think.

Hydrogen isn't a viable alternative unless we start building nuclear power plants to produce electricty to produce hydrogen. That could change, though.

Energy, energy, energy. Oil is virtually our only source of it. Unfortunately, we can't just pull it out of our asses.

Bio-Diesel


and about the 'emissions' issue...
if a Golf TDI can be sold in LA then it can be sold anywhere

u know how much we'd have to grow to use biodiesel right? its not practical

 

[Wahsapa]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Wahsapa

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BullyCanadian
What about those Hydrogran Fueled cars?

They seem good, but there is one thing of concern, if someone in a hydrogen fuel car gets into a bad accident, will the hydrogren explode?

It certainly could, but it shouldn't really explode any more readily than a 15 gallon tank of gasoline, I don't think.

Hydrogen isn't a viable alternative unless we start building nuclear power plants to produce electricty to produce hydrogen. That could change, though.

Energy, energy, energy. Oil is virtually our only source of it. Unfortunately, we can't just pull it out of our asses.

Bio-Diesel


and about the 'emissions' issue...
if a Golf TDI can be sold in LA then it can be sold anywhere

u know how much we'd have to grow to use biodiesel right? its not practical

remember the epiosde of Futurama where EVERYTHING is recycled.... one can only hope one day that can be the case

 

[0roo0roo]

eh, if they come up with more efficient recycing techniques. so far the only energy saving recycling is aluminum. everything else is a scam.

 

[huesmann]

Diesels aren't popular because there aren't any diesel production sports cars. No, your hopped-up F350 doesn't count.

What sells cars in this country (dunno about others) is sports cars. That's what draws people into showrooms. They may not be able to buy one, or it may not fit their lifestyle, but the Corvette draws people into the showroom where the dealer can then sell them a Malibu or a Blazer.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Vic
High gas prices in Europe are because of excessive taxation, not because of the cost of fuel. Americans either pay taxes for comparable government services in other ways or don't receive the government service (in that case, because they probably don't want it).

Not really true: Gas taxes in Europe can easily be interpretted as a market-correcting device which takes into account the externalities inherent in burning gasoline; they have high gas-guzzler taxes for exactly this reason.

Not all taxes need to be justified by services provided with those taxes; in reality gas and gas-guzzler taxes should be devoted to all the effects of driving. This includes environmental damage, the need to create additional roads, etc.

Now whether these taxes are efectively directed to such causes is another matter. I get angry every time the AAA or CAA claims that not all gas taxes are spent on roads; they shouldn't be! They should be spent on the many and varied impacts of motor vehicle use.

BTW, this would be the normative conclusion of efficient free-market theory, not socialism.

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: Wahsapa

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BullyCanadian
What about those Hydrogran Fueled cars?

They seem good, but there is one thing of concern, if someone in a hydrogen fuel car gets into a bad accident, will the hydrogren explode?

It certainly could, but it shouldn't really explode any more readily than a 15 gallon tank of gasoline, I don't think.

Hydrogen isn't a viable alternative unless we start building nuclear power plants to produce electricty to produce hydrogen. That could change, though.

Energy, energy, energy. Oil is virtually our only source of it. Unfortunately, we can't just pull it out of our asses.

Bio-Diesel


and about the 'emissions' issue...
if a Golf TDI can be sold in LA then it can be sold anywhere

edit: also compared to most other countrys we have the cheapist gas prices. and 5+ year old diesels arnt around any more... we're talking about the new diesels here, the ones we are making today, not the ones that we're made 5+ years ago. also the same can be said about any car that isnt kept properly not just diesels.

TDI isn't available in cali anymore (on new cars). VW needs their pollution value to pimp the Tourag.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I'm an American & I love diesels, I have a 95' Chevy 6.5l & an 02' Golf TDI.

Our next vehicle will be a diesel too.

TDI Motorsports

 

[Deadtrees]

Reading replies in this thread, we can clearly see why Americans are anti-diesel.
Many people still don't realize how diesel cars improved. They still have those old memories and won't give 'em up. Like I said before, this is just like AMD vs. Intel issue.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Yep, them diesels are pretty slow & pokey... Golf

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: Shockwave
Have you ever seen a deisel run 11.24 in the 1/4 mile?
We'll take out gas thanks.

I have

Who has that link to the F-350 with a Cummings turbodeisel and a mixture cranked to sh!t . . ?

It ran low 11's.

So you loose with that argument. it wasn't even a light car with a big motor, it was a fscking F-350 with a bigass motor, giant tires, boosted ground clearence, and it ran low 11's with a diesel.

 

[dizzle106]

cuz, when i think of diesel i think of semis.......and thats no goood!

 

[TechnoKid]

Emissions is part of it, thats why California won't allow the Volkswagen Toureg V10 TDi. Scrubbers are expensive.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Most companies don't offer diesel versions of their popular cars. I think an Accord diesel would do well here.
Also there is a question of price. TDI Golf is a couple grand more than gasoline GL, and less rebates. On an economy car, that's a big deal. Then there is the emissions, especially small particle emissions. They can be reduced with new expensive technologies, but that gets back to the price question.

Diesel Accord.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: moonshinemadness
Please dont turn this into a flame war im just interested, in the UK there is probably as many petrol as diesel cars whereas in the US even your pickups are petrol. Why? I would always consider a diesel over a petrol, Better economy engines, More pulling Power usually stock turbo, Hardwearing engines that will go on for 200,000 + miles trouble free (If maintained properly) so why the big ass petrol engine thing?

1. I am not against diesel in any way.

2. Not really better economy as many gasoline powered cars today get similar mileage.

3. Pulling power has little to do with fuel type. There is more than the engine in that vehicle.

4. 200,000 miles is not rare. Granted many of todays aluminum engines will have plenty of wear by 200,000 miles. But then again it depends on how you drive and maintain your engine. My friend's slant 6 (the most reliable engine ever made) work van had over 600,000 miles on it before he sold it (still running like a charm); he beat on that thing constantly. The 305 I had in my 1984 Caprice Classic had nearly 300,000 miles on it when the frame rusted away. The engine was still going strong. My old slant 6 Volare Station Wagon had 300,000 miles on it before it rusted out and I was very hard on that car.

One point not made here is that diesel fuel is almost as expensive here as gasoline.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: BullyCanadian
What about those Hydrogran Fueled cars?

They seem good, but there is one thing of concern, if someone in a hydrogen fuel car gets into a bad accident, will the hydrogren explode?

It certainly could, but it shouldn't really explode any more readily than a 15 gallon tank of gasoline, I don't think.

Hydrogen isn't a viable alternative unless we start building nuclear power plants to produce electricty to produce hydrogen. That could change, though.

Energy, energy, energy. Oil is virtually our only source of it. Unfortunately, we can't just pull it out of our asses.

This is why as long as hydrogen can't be generated from renewable resources, diesel and hybrids are better solutions to energy problems. Better fuel economy is at least a short-term solution to an impending shortage of fuel.

Is anyone else thinking about the plot from the Transformers right now?

The hydrogen is the solution to another problem - that is CO and CO2 and unburnt fuel that is emitted by the engines working with fossil fuels (I know, emission tests and so on, but the CO2 problem still remains). The CO2 and CO and unburnt (partially burnt) fuels (think the black or blue smoke of the exhaust) clog the atmosphere, and create a kind of "greenhouse effect" - even if warmer, the polluted air will stay in the city and not rise (unlike clean air). This pollution makes the temperatures in cities rise more than in a similar area but with fields.

The electric and hydrogen cars have none of such problems, and this is the reason they are pushed in some cities for urban community transport

Calin

 

[Calin]

Now. I hardly see any kind of turbo diesel engine around here (Romania, Central Europe for americans and Eastern Europe for everyone else) acceptably recent (on cars newer than 1996) that would smoke, blue or black. However, many of the "chip tuning kits" for the engine will have as result (along increased max power and torque) signifiant emissions (black smoke when pushing the pedal to the metal).

Calin

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Calin
Now. I hardly see any kind of turbo diesel engine around here (Romania, Central Europe for americans and Eastern Europe for everyone else) acceptably recent (on cars newer than 1996) that would smoke, blue or black. However, many of the "chip tuning kits" for the engine will have as result (along increased max power and torque) signifiant emissions (black smoke when pushing the pedal to the metal).

Calin

If your ignition is working properly and your FI is working properly you should not see any black smoke. That would indicate a rich condition. EFI's fuel management should prevent that.

Blue smoke on the other hand indicates something is seriously wrong with the engine. Burning oil is not just bad for the environment, it is bad for your fuel economy and engine life.

CO2 is a normal by-product of combustion. CO is not as are oxides of nitrogen. Catalytic converters deal with those. Remember, today's cars run 90% cleaner than they did back in 1986. They not as big a cause of air pollution as enviromental groups would like you to believe. They are just easier to target than the real cuplrits.