Why are amplifiers so darn expensive??

[DesiPower]

I have a HTPC and I want to use the on-board sound card as the main audio source, not the HDMI. So the only option is to get stand alone amplifiers, but the are so freaking expensive, runs close to $1000 for the ones that have 7+ chancels. I saw a 2 channel Audiosource amp, 40 watt each channel for a little over 100 bucks, wow... Now I can get a 7.1 AVR which has a decoder, some form of preamp AND 80 watt per channel for under $500, so why are AMPs so expensive? low demand = lack of mass production? is that it?

Next question I have is, is it possible to use a AVR for amplification only? I doubt it as all I have seen is Composite, RCA or HDMI inputs... Some do come with AUX ports but that's gonna handle only 2 channels. Maybe find a bunch of super olds ones with aux input or just use the RCA and 2 channels? can that work?

 

[sdifox]

because the receivers you see at 500 bux are lying about their power output.

 

[NutBucket]

Basically supply and demand.

Also, look for an AVR with a multi-channel analog input. They exist.

And finally even if their output power is inflated, who cares? You can to ear-drum damaging volumes in average setups with 20W.

 

[DesiPower]

because the receivers you see at 500 bux are lying about their power output.

I doubt companies like Denon and Onkyo are lying about their output to that level, if so then the amp manufacturers are doing the same, all in all, any equipment, if rated at 80 watts per channel, the resulting output would be the same irrespective of whether its a AVR or amp, don't you think so?

 

[sdifox]

Basically supply and demand.

Also, look for an AVR with a multi-channel analog input. They exist.

And finally even if their output power is inflated, who cares? You can to ear-drum damaging volumes in average setups with 20W.

That used to be true, but now they can output 100W simultaneously at best, which gets dicey when you are doing 5.1.

 

[DesiPower]

Basically supply and demand.

Also, look for an AVR with a multi-channel analog input. They exist.

And finally even if their output power is inflated, who cares? You can to ear-drum damaging volumes in average setups with 20W.

How do i look for that? is there a specification that I can look for? can you link one please, I can do more research based on that...

 

[sdifox]

How do i look for that? is there a specification that I can look for? can you link one please, I can do more research based on that...

usually something called 6 or 7 channel analog input. Reality is you may want to use a new receiver for the pre-amp processing duty and get a mukti channel amp to drive the speakers.

 

[cmdrdredd]

How do i look for that? is there a specification that I can look for? can you link one please, I can do more research based on that...

Looks like this. However almost every new receiver will not have it. They may have Pre-outs but those don't help you. HDMI is the standard and since it can pass lossless audio there is no need for analog inputs (or so the industry believes). You may be able to find one used somewhere, I have one but this was a receiver that did not have any HDMI and you would run the multi channel out from a BD or HD-DVD player and let the player decode the audio and send each channel separately to the receiver. The big downside is you have no ability to do bass management or any EQ through this input method. With HDMI you can EQ the room and set crossover frequencies etc. With the analog inputs the receiver will play whatever is given to it untouched and all the bass management etc has to come from the source.


In Short since everything uses HDMI these days it is unnecessary for the average consumer grade receiver to have multi channel analog inputs.

 

[DesiPower]

Looks like this. However almost every new receiver will not have it. They may have Pre-outs but those don't help you. HDMI is the standard and since it can pass lossless audio there is no need for analog inputs (or so the industry believes). You may be able to find one used somewhere, I have one but this was a receiver that did not have any HDMI and you would run the multi channel out from a BD or HD-DVD player and let the player decode the audio and send each channel separately to the receiver. The big downside is you have no ability to do bass management or any EQ through this input method. With HDMI you can EQ the room and set crossover frequencies etc. With the analog inputs the receiver will play whatever is given to it untouched.


In Short since everything uses HDMI these days it is unnecessary for the average consumer grade receiver to have multi channel analog inputs.

Do you know what model this is? I don't care about equalizer or bass management as the computer can do all that, just need amplification, I even plan to connect the sub woofer directly with the PC, just need amplification for the 6 or 7 channels.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Do you know what model this is? I don't care about equalizer or bass management as the computer can do all that, just need amplification, I even plan to connect the sub woofer directly with the PC, just need amplification for the 6 or 7 channels.

I don't know that model but the Yamaha RXV-765BL(95w x7) has analog inputs and HDMI.

Ebay prices look to be around $300 used and $400 new(b or c stock). Amazon has one brand new but it's too expensive at $650 for such an old model at this point.


Or on the super cheap the Kenwood VR-305 has 6 channel analog inputs. It does not support HDMI or Optical though at all. Ebay has a few used for under $100

 

[Thebobo]

If you think out of the box so to say.

You can get 4 of these for under 50 watts Thats under $100

For 50 watts 4 of these ~ < $400

Or you can mix and match ~ I use the former for my 2 chan pc studio monitors - sounds great. Read the reviews.

 

[cmdrdredd]

If you think out of the box so to say.

You can get 4 of these for under 50 watts Thats under $100

For 50 watts 4 of these ~ < $400

Or you can mix and match ~ I use the former for my 2 chan pc studio monitors - sounds great. Read the reviews.

If one does not need more power those would work and can be tucked out of the way.

 

[DesiPower]

If you think out of the box so to say.

You can get 4 of these for under 50 watts Thats under $100

For 50 watts 4 of these ~ < $400

I use the former for my 2 chan pc studio monitors - sounds great. Read the reviews.

I have been thinking about these, that's where I started, can they handle cheap big speakers like Sony SS-B1000? or are they for smaller speakers?

I was infact planning to go for something like this, AudioSource AMP-100

But was wondering are these appropriate for HT?

 

[cmdrdredd]

The sensitivity on those speakers is decent, not amazing but I don't think you need 120watts to drive them and get quality sound (and volume) from them.

 

[DesiPower]

I dont know much about all these things but do these cheap amps distort the sound quality? is that a possibility, or that's not who it works..

 

[sdifox]

I doubt companies like Denon and Onkyo are lying about their output to that level, if so then the amp manufacturers are doing the same, all in all, any equipment, if rated at 80 watts per channel, the resulting output would be the same irrespective of whether its a AVR or amp, don't you think so?

The low end receivers now use languages that disguise their true output.

 

[s44]

Do you know what model this is? I don't care about equalizer or bass management as the computer can do all that, just need amplification, I even plan to connect the sub woofer directly with the PC, just need amplification for the 6 or 7 channels.

I don't know why you're putting so much effort and money into creating an objectively worse setup for yourself. Even though it has much more processing power to play with, a PC soundcard setup is far worse because it don't have close to the room/layout-corrective DSP algorithms of a middling Denon AVR. *And* your setup is doing the digital-audio conversion in the worst possible place (the noisy inside of a PC, far from the eventual speaker-level output), requires a bunch of extra cables that will degrade the analog sound, and -- if you use an AVR to amplify -- will end up running the input through an ADC and then yet another DAC...

Sell the sound card. Buy an AVR. It's the only sensible setup now.

 

[LoveMachine]

I don't know why you're putting so much effort and money into creating an objectively worse setup for yourself. Even though it has much more processing power to play with, a PC soundcard setup is far worse because it don't have close to the room/layout-corrective DSP algorithms of a middling Denon AVR. *And* your setup is doing the digital-audio conversion in the worst possible place (the noisy inside of a PC, far from the eventual speaker-level output), requires a bunch of extra cables that will degrade the analog sound, and -- if you use an AVR to amplify -- will end up running the input through an ADC and then yet another DAC...

Sell the sound card. Buy an AVR. It's the only sensible setup now.

I was hoping someone would say this. This is FAR simpler, and unless you have very specific tasks you are doing (music creation perhaps), you will almost certainly get better sound quality letting the AVR doing all the work.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

Do you know what model this is? I don't care about equalizer or bass management as the computer can do all that, just need amplification, I even plan to connect the sub woofer directly with the PC, just need amplification for the 6 or 7 channels.

Pop on your local Craigslist and pick up an Onkyo receiver with model number ending in 01, 02, 03, 04. Should be able to find some for $200 or less easily. The THX-certified TX-NR703 would be a good choice.

You could do the same with Yamaha, Denon, etc. Any decent mid-range receiver produced during the years, say, 2004-2008 will probably have what you need.

Although... if you're looking for 7 channels precisely, you're going to have a hard time. 5.1 channels, easy. 6.1 channels, ok. 7.1, that's getting well into the HDMI era when companies started doing away with multichannel analog inputs.

An alternative is to buy multiple, plain stereo receivers. All of them will have 2 channels of input, L and R. Buy 3 of them, you have 6 channels of amplification. You can pick up old 90's stereo receivers for $50 pretty easily on CL or at pawnshops (although pawnshops aren't as good a bet as they once were..... most people have moved to the HTIB stuff without real receivers).

 

[fuzzymath10]

I also don't quite understand not going the HDMI route, but what I do know is that the Yamaha RX-V667 has 7.1 analog inputs, and can't be that expensive anymore (I have owned one for 3 years).

 

[Anubis]

i have a Yamaha RX-A3000 i could part with, thing has more connections then you could ever need

 

[cmdrdredd]

The low end receivers now use languages that disguise their true output.

A lot of them now advertise what you get when you drive a single channel or stereo but not what you get when you run all 5 or 7 etc.

 

[DesiPower]

To answer fuzzymath10, LoveMachine, s44's question, let me provide a little background, I do not have a proper HT set up yet, its just computer, hooked up to a 47inch TV, initially I was using TV speakers only. One thing led to another and I ended up moving everything to a small room meant to be a study but now is a gym/den. Now I have my gaming machine too in that room and it has a 7.1 redneck sound system hooked up to it - quote from my post on another thread -

My computer is in a 12' x 13' room, and I have a make shift 7.1 setup. I have a 12 year old Altec Lansing 4100 system, I use that for rear and middle channels (has its won sub woofer). Have a set of Logitech X-230, used for front speakers (again, has its own subwoofer). Bought a cheap refurb Audiosource soundbar for $30, used as center speaker. Bought a sony subwoofer off of Craigslist for $50, using it as main subwoofer. system rocks

I messed up the Logitech X-230 during the move and one of the speakers is not working properly so its time to replace them anyways and I though of getting a pair of bookshelf speaker and an Amp, that's where my quest for amp began and I was not prepared for the high price of good amps, I though since there are lot of decent AVRs for under 500, I can get amps for cheaper than that, use it for 2 speakers only for now and down the line maybe get a preamp and use the HDMI and go professional. Second though was maybe to get a AVR with multichannel analog input, use it for front speaker only for now and later buy good speakers and use though HDMI. For now for just 2 speakers I guess I can do with any AVR as all of them have 3.5mm or RCA input, but I was thinking of upgrading the speakers one set at a time as money becomes available, stay with PC soundcard till I get all 5 or 7 speakers and subwoofer upgraded

 

[alcoholbob]

$1000 is what, 3/4 an ounce of gold? So it would be about $27 in 1970.

Amplifiers are in fact incredibly cheap, much cheaper than they were a few decades ago. If you can't afford it you should be blaming the government for printing so much money to pay off its own debt and for growing every year without fail even during recessions.

 

[alcoholbob]

i have a Yamaha RX-A3000 i could part with, thing has more connections then you could ever need

I got one too.

You willing to part yours for $500?