Why are Europeans so offended by US patriotism?

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: glenn1

I think many Europeans find it hard to distinguish patriotism from nationalism. Considering that the European experiences with nationalism over the years have typically tended to wind up in extremely bloody conflicts, the concept has left somewhat of a bad taste in their mouths, and it tends to be seen as a negative trait.

WWII had quite the effect on Europe. Experiencing millions of dead and thousand year-old landmarks destroyed in a relatively short period of time tends to permanently alter ones convictions.

From another perspective, Ralph Barton Perry once remarked about Americans: "Their ideals are the basis of their national identity. Other people take their identity from the common ancestry that led them gradually to gather under one flag. Thus, long before there was a France or a Japan, there were French and Japanese people, each a kinship group united through blood. Not so for Americans. They are a multitude of peoples linked by a political tradition. The United States is a nation that was founded in 1776 on a set of principles that became its peoples's common bond."

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: gplanet
sciponix

that's not my opinion, but apparantly it's the opinion of George W. Bush, the majority of Congress, and 91% of Americans

You keep telling yourself that. If a persecution complex is what you need to keep yourself going, fine by me.

 

[bonk102]

because we are celebrating freedom from Europe?

 

[XMan]

Heck, I heard some groups were trying to get together to boycott Toby Keith because of his song "Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue."

SPK.

 

[Dofuss3000]

Originally posted by: bonk102
because we are celebrating freedom from Europe?

yeah, that might piss them off a little....

 

[Tominator]

Originally posted by: Xerox Man
Heck, I heard some groups were trying to get together to boycott Toby Keith because of his song "Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue."

SPK.

Like we care....

 

[woodie1]

They see what we have accomplished and envy us. We do tend to go over board sometimes but pride is hard to contain.

 

[Miramonti]

Where does it say Europeans are offended by US patriotism?

They're offended by the general condescension americans have towards others, especially the arrogance exhibited in our foreign policies, but thats not just Europe.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

America is a very young yet incredibly successful and powerful nation. It DOES go to our head occasionally. We DO come off as arrogant sometimes.
However, some of what is percieved as arrogance to Europeans is nothing more than confidence and assertion of power.
Of course America asserts it's power.... just as EVERY superpower has done in history of the world.
And, as superpowers go, America's reign has been fairly benign.
Can the England say the same about it's reign as superpower?
The Commonwealth was built upon war and conquering.

 

[JellyBaby]

Can the England say the same about it's reign as superpower?

I always thought it a pity China never stayed British.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Quote

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Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
I would have to say, sometimes we confuse patriotism with arrogance.

example this thread, much of what is said here could be considered arrogance and not patriotism.

i'm as patriotic as the next guy. there is no reason to be offensive about it tho.
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I agree 100%!
Could you give us some examples of each?

Patriotism
Willingness to stand up and defend his/her country.
Desire to see his/her country do as well as possible.
Contributing to his/her country as much as possible.

Arrogance
Foolishly talking about how his/her country "kicks @ss"

Patriotism is about doing, arrogance is about talking.

 

[LukFilm]

Originally posted by: Tominator
More like envy!

Our economy, military...you name it...beats them by a long shot and we won't even go in to saving their ass a time or two.

They pretend freedom and equality. We struggle every day with those things. Our borders are the most liberal of ANY nation. We accept EVERYONE with half a desire to live here.

Be American and try and get a job in Germany and you'll go to jail! Be German and try to get a job in the US and you'll get hiring preference and interest free loans.....

Be an illegal immigrant in any country you can name besides the US and you get deported asap. Here we turn the other way....then give them amnesty a job and interest free loans.

They pretend, we don't and it irks them to no end.

LOL, whatever. I'm a student here for the past seven years and there is NO WAY IN HELL the US would allow me to stay one extra day beyond my visa expiration. And all those illegal immigrants with no skills are allowed to stay here with no problem. WTF? :|

 

[Ultima]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
It's jealousy. They are weak and dependent upon each other. We are strong and dependent upon noone. What they perceive to be arrogance is just self-confidence. We know we can kick ass, but we don't. We only ask to be left alone. That doesn't appear to be a possibility.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Ultima

you have an actual point?

 

[Tominator]

LOL, whatever. I'm a student here for the past seven years and there is NO WAY IN HELL the US would allow me to stay one extra day beyond my visa expiration. And all those illegal immigrants with no skills are allowed to stay here with no problem. WTF?

You are a guest taking advantage of our system and not someone that will immigrate. Folks that are willing to immigrate get all kinds of breaks that citizens do not.

 

[VFAA]

It's not jealousy. Most European countries have great history. They fought in more wars and had more blood shed (if that's what Americans think patriotizm comes from) than the USA. I have great knowledge and respect for American history as I know a lot about it from my studies. I see that only in USA & Canada American history is studied more in depth. European countries focus mostly on history of their own countries. Unless you're studying at a University, you'll find out more about world history. USA is a young country with a young history (to a historian), but most European countries are as old as 800 to 2000 years old with a lot more history. Let me assure you that Europeans have great respect and honor for American history and patriotizm, but do not show it that much publicly.

I hear it from few Professors at a University (their opinion) that majority Americans are great patriots (mostly men), but too ignorant to the 'outside' world (US citizens in general). Would show grief and support only when great tragedy happens to another country. A lot of European countries want to be like America. They take examples of American actions and try to execute in their own countries. Look how Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Czech Republic, Romania and many others changed in the past 15 years. Lifestyle is just like in the USA. Economy is almost like the USAs. Government is democratic, just like USA.

In conclusion, a lot of Europeans respect America for what it stands, but sometimes America is too blind to see that.

 

[Tominator]

Government is democratic, just like USA.

We are a Representative Republic....huge difference.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: VFAA <I hear it from few Professors at a University (their opinion) that majority Americans are great patriots (mostly men), but too ignorant to the 'outside' world (US citizens in general). Would show grief and support only when great tragedy happens to another country. A lot of European countries want to be like America. They take examples of American actions and try to execute in their own countries. Look how Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Czech Republic, Romania and many others changed in the past 15 years. Lifestyle is just like in the USA. Economy is almost like the USAs. Government is democratic, just like USA.

In conclusion, a lot of Europeans respect America for what it stands, but sometimes America is too blind to see that.

Those are former Communist countries that want to be like the USA. Western European elites do NOT want to be like the USA, even though it is increasingly obvious that Joe Table Wine does. As much as the blue bloods complain about McDonalds and Hollywood, if the people didn't like those things, they wouldn't succeed over there.

 

[VFAA]

Those are former Communist countries that want to be like the USA. Western European elites do NOT want to be like the USA, even though it is increasingly obvious that Joe Table Wine does. As much as the blue bloods complain about McDonalds and Hollywood, if the people didn't like those things, they wouldn't succeed over there.

Hey, but have you guys ever wondered if these countries succeeded and became just as powerful as the USA in the next 50 - 100 years? Just a thought.

People actually write 30 page long essays on that issue.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
America is a very young yet incredibly successful and powerful nation. It DOES go to our head occasionally. We DO come off as arrogant sometimes.
However, some of what is percieved as arrogance to Europeans is nothing more than confidence and assertion of power.
Of course America asserts it's power.... just as EVERY superpower has done in history of the world.
And, as superpowers go, America's reign has been fairly benign.
Can the England say the same about it's reign as superpower?
The Commonwealth was built upon war and conquering.

Insightful comment..

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: VFAA

Those are former Communist countries that want to be like the USA. Western European elites do NOT want to be like the USA, even though it is increasingly obvious that Joe Table Wine does. As much as the blue bloods complain about McDonalds and Hollywood, if the people didn't like those things, they wouldn't succeed over there.

Hey, but have you guys ever wondered if these countries succeeded and became just as powerful as the USA in the next 50 - 100 years? Just a thought.

People actually write 30 page long essays on that issue.

I am sure their success would be warmly welcomed.

 

[LukFilm]

Originally posted by: Tominator

LOL, whatever. I'm a student here for the past seven years and there is NO WAY IN HELL the US would allow me to stay one extra day beyond my visa expiration. And all those illegal immigrants with no skills are allowed to stay here with no problem. WTF?

You are a guest taking advantage of our system and not someone that will immigrate. Folks that are willing to immigrate get all kinds of breaks that citizens do not.

Um, I want to immigrate and stay here. Why is it so difficult for me to do so, enhance American society by giving back what I learned here and make it better? I'm sure 99.9% of immigrants can't come anywhere near what I can do for the USA...

 

[LukFilm]

And BTW, there is WAY TOO MUCH generalization about Europe and Europeans. Just like you can't generalize the whole USA, you can't generalize Europe. It's even more diverse than the USA resulting in much more diverse opinions on the USA and most people don't hate USA in Europe...

 

[LukFilm]

Originally posted by: VFAA
It's not jealousy. Most European countries have great history. They fought in more wars and had more blood shed (if that's what Americans think patriotizm comes from) than the USA. I have great knowledge and respect for American history as I know a lot about it from my studies. I see that only in USA & Canada American history is studied more in depth. European countries focus mostly on history of their own countries. Unless you're studying at a University, you'll find out more about world history. USA is a young country with a young history (to a historian), but most European countries are as old as 800 to 2000 years old with a lot more history. Let me assure you that Europeans have great respect and honor for American history and patriotizm, but do not show it that much publicly.

I hear it from few Professors at a University (their opinion) that majority Americans are great patriots (mostly men), but too ignorant to the 'outside' world (US citizens in general). Would show grief and support only when great tragedy happens to another country. A lot of European countries want to be like America. They take examples of American actions and try to execute in their own countries. Look how Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Czech Republic, Romania and many others changed in the past 15 years. Lifestyle is just like in the USA. Economy is almost like the USAs. Government is democratic, just like USA.

In conclusion, a lot of Europeans respect America for what it stands, but sometimes America is too blind to see that.

AWESOME WRITE UP. Couldn't have written it better. I'm from the Czech Republic myself and what you said is true, though our economy and lifestyle is not mirroring the USA in particular, but the USA is an important factor in it.

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: Tominator
Sorry, but being proud of this country gets you zip anywhere else and idiotic stares from europeans who have never experienced generations growing up is real freedom.

It ain't braggin if you can do it! Call it what you want...arrogance....another term for proud and willing to prove it. We continually hear Europeanns telling us how to act....shoving down the throat is a European tradition! It starts wars and slaughters millions!

What do you have to prove and to whom?