Why are Europeans so offended by US patriotism?

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: VFAA
How did we get off with this to Israel?

And if we're talking about economy, let's take cars for example...
How many American made cars do we see in Europe? ie. Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth, Jeep, GMC/Pontiac/Chevrolet/Buick, Ford...?
Now how many European made cars do we see in North America? ie. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Lexus, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, VVW, Alfa Romeo, SAAB, Audi, Volvo, Land Rover and many, many others that we see on daily basis?

I think Europe and East Asia own the car department.

Isn't Opel the largest auto manufacturer in Europe?

Have you also considered trade barriers?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Mandrill
Quote

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Originally posted by: SnapIT

Quote

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Volvo is a Ford brand
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No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...
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You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo




<nelsonmuntz>Ha ha!</nelsonmuntz>

Actually they have a chance again, ford currently is trying to sell volvo. ANd given the quality of the cars they send to the US, I can understand why.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Volvo is a Ford brand

No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...

You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo

You should read those links before you post them... ford bought a PORTION of volvo.. not VOLVO...

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: VFAA
How did we get off with this to Israel?

And if we're talking about economy, let's take cars for example...
How many American made cars do we see in Europe? ie. Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth, Jeep, GMC/Pontiac/Chevrolet/Buick, Ford...?
Now how many European made cars do we see in North America? ie. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Lexus, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, VVW, Alfa Romeo, SAAB, Audi, Volvo, Land Rover and many, many others that we see on daily basis?

I think Europe and East Asia own the car department.

Isn't Opel the largest auto manufacturer in Europe?

Have you also considered trade barriers?

Opel is not the largest Manufacturer in Europe, Opel is a branch of GM just like Pontiac. Before Chrysler and DB joined VAG was the biggest European car manufacturer.

What do u mean with trade barriers as far as I know the trade barriers are at the US not on our part. US cars are not sold in Europe because they are not competitive - period. To heavy, to big, to much gas, too old technology, to unsafe, oh and this one is personal, many of the pure US cars also lack the visual appeal


Anyway whtas all this got to do with patritism beeing resented by Europeans? Oh, ok I forgot another one, Chevy and Co may sell better here if they lose those "Heartbeat of America" stickers

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

you can kiss my red, white and blue ass.

Nah, but i can kick it instead....

And no, just because i do not think you are superior doesn't mean that i am looking down my nose at you...

The US is great at some things... Europe is great in other ways....

Now... i have read enough about socialsm=communism to understand that most americans who whine about it don't understand that even canada is more socialistic than most of europe...

They just don't know... still... they whine...

Threatening me now, are we. You're really laughable. We aren't talking about Canada or comparing who is more socialist. We are talking about Europe.

Pucker up buttercup.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Volvo is a Ford brand

No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...

You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo

You should read those links before you post them... ford bought a PORTION of volvo.. not VOLVO...

Maybe YOU should read them. Ford owns and controls Volvo cars. Volvo trucks is still Volvo.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: VFAA
I know Opel is huge in Europe... but you don't see it in North America.... yet!

Opel was huge until an GM guy became CEO and tried to bind it closer to GM. since then they struggle with safety, relibility problems - loosing market share ever since.

You do see Opels in the US, one or two Cadillac models are/were Opels

 

[AT]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

dont know about other european countries, but in Germany such Patriotism is regarded as Nazi behavior. It leads to arrogance and the general feeling that "your" country is the most valuable of all blah blah. Thus patriototic ppl tend to see other nationalities as lesser and their cause as less important which leads at least to tension (and more) between nations. It is idiotic - what pupose does it serve? Why should I (you) be proud of a country I am born in. Whats the achievement in that? It's not even your achievement to be born there - wow that must make one proud.....

Here's those snobby elitist Eurotrash looking down their noses at Americans that I am so fond of. You and your sister AT make me laugh. Why do the Euro's get so crazy about their World Cup teams. You had nothing to do with it. The players just happen to be from your country. Why should you be proud of them when they win a game? What's the achievement in that? Just because your country doesn't give you any reason to feel patriotic or have a little bit of nationalistic pride doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that maybe you don't have anything to be proud of. No American thinks that we live in a perfect country but we do think we have things to be proud of and we do. We also know that we have things to ashamed of and we are. However, if somehow our attitude offends some snobby, elitist, socialistic Eurotrash such as you Goone then personally I'm glad. I've done things for this country and been part of things this country has done that give me every right to be proud. If you don't like my attitude about it, well, you can kiss my red, white and blue ass.

I tried to tiptoe around saying anything about any particular group of people (ok except kkk but I think they are fair target for everybody) but I guess dave was caught in the flame war with snapit. I just think it's evident from history that taking patriotism to the extreme leads to nationalism and that has never lead to anything rationale or positive. I despise all nationalists equally regardless of their nationality because their actions are not based on reason. The only way world from now on can be made better place and provide wealth that we arguably have all over the world is to reduce the meaning of borders between countries. It just will not work in the future that some country decides to close everyone out. Like it or not we are headed for a global society.

I pay my respects to my ancestors who have done great things for home country and appreciate the fact that I have been able to grow up in a free country and I have tried to do my share in it. And I pay my respects for any other countries heros who I believe fought for a just cause. But seeing news on daily basis over Europe about right wing extremists gaining ground doesn't exactly make me appreciate nationalism and the things it brings with it. I think the nationalist problem is by far worse in Europe right now than it is in the States. I just hope we have learned enough from history to allow us to prevent history repeating.

Oh and that socialist/commie euro thing always cracks me up. You damn republican

Edit: I think this whole thread should have been two messages long: the first post and Czar's reply (msg#101 I believe).

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: SnapIT

you can kiss my red, white and blue ass.

Nah, but i can kick it instead....

And no, just because i do not think you are superior doesn't mean that i am looking down my nose at you...

The US is great at some things... Europe is great in other ways....

Now... i have read enough about socialsm=communism to understand that most americans who whine about it don't understand that even canada is more socialistic than most of europe...

They just don't know... still... they whine...

Threatening me now, are we. You're really laughable. We aren't talking about Canada or comparing who is more socialist. We are talking about Europe.

Pucker up buttercup.

I wasn't even referring to you, actually, i really wasn't even referring to this thread... my mistake... sorry bout dat... i just read too many comments about "socialist" europe... i guess...

No, i am not threatening you, but i would rather kick your ass than kiss it... you get what you give big guy...

So why not shut your mouth about elitist europeans, i am just trying to explain to you that you are not as superior as you think... Tell me that the US is a great nation, i will agree, tell me that the US is far better than any european nation... i will disagree...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Volvo is a Ford brand

No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...

You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo

You should read those links before you post them... ford bought a PORTION of volvo.. not VOLVO...

Maybe YOU should read them. Ford owns and controls Volvo cars. Volvo trucks is still Volvo.

It's like saying that Volvo owns and controls mitsubishi... what you have too look at is: who is the bigger shareholder... as a company... volvo is owned and controlled by the swedish company volvo... which is latin for we roll...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

After 180+ posts, the obvious answer is we have bigger weenies.

That makes as much sense as some of what I have read here. (Wonder if it is true?)

Part of the problem is how the question is framed. I do not accept the premise of the argument. SOME do feel that way, but the average European learns about us from our politicians and our TV. And most in the US do the same. We each see a projected view or selected set of people, and therefore broad statements based on that "data set" if you will, are flawed. Does the average european even think of the US? Probably more concerned with how do deal with the newest strike in Italy, or the price of butter in Paris. Sorry guys, but we arent that important to be constantly on the minds of the world.

If they do feel that way, it is because the US consists of two cities. Hollywood and Washington. Feel good about Sodom and Gomorrah representing you? (Google if you dont know what they are )

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Volvo is a Ford brand

No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...

You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo

You should read those links before you post them... ford bought a PORTION of volvo.. not VOLVO...

Maybe YOU should read them. Ford owns and controls Volvo cars. Volvo trucks is still Volvo.

It's like saying that Volvo owns and controls mitsubishi... what you have too look at is: who is the bigger shareholder... as a company... volvo is owned and controlled by the swedish company volvo... which is latin for we roll...

Ford owns the entire volvo car division.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Volvo is a Ford brand

No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...

You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo

You should read those links before you post them... ford bought a PORTION of volvo.. not VOLVO...

Maybe YOU should read them. Ford owns and controls Volvo cars. Volvo trucks is still Volvo.

It's like saying that Volvo owns and controls mitsubishi... what you have too look at is: who is the bigger shareholder... as a company... volvo is owned and controlled by the swedish company volvo... which is latin for we roll...

Ford owns the entire volvo car division.

Okey Lucky... i know that, but HOW MANY SHARES OF VOLVO DO THEY OWN? Who is the bigger shareholder in volvo??

THAT was what i was asking... look it up... or take my word for it... it is NOT ford...

Man... i dunno... these threads surely turn fast... Sadly the original question should never have been asked, because it has more to do with americans putting down the rest of the world than being proud of their own country...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Volvo is a Ford brand

No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...

You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo

You should read those links before you post them... ford bought a PORTION of volvo.. not VOLVO...

Maybe YOU should read them. Ford owns and controls Volvo cars. Volvo trucks is still Volvo.

It's like saying that Volvo owns and controls mitsubishi... what you have too look at is: who is the bigger shareholder... as a company... volvo is owned and controlled by the swedish company volvo... which is latin for we roll...

Ford owns the entire volvo car division.

Okey Lucky... i know that, but HOW MANY SHARES OF VOLVO DO THEY OWN? Who is the bigger shareholder in volvo??

THAT was what i was asking... look it up... or take my word for it... it is NOT ford...

Man... i dunno... these threads surely turn fast... Sadly the original question should never have been asked, because it has more to do with americans putting down the rest of the world than being proud of their own country...

It doesn't matter who owns the most shares in the Volvo Group (which is much bigger than the car division). It matters that Ford owns and controls the CAR DIVISION.

look who's damn name is on the Volvo CARS website. Click on the name, and see that FORD calls the Volvo a FORD brand.

 

[B00ne]

guys stop fighting, Ford owns Volvo cars period
Swedish companies have a habit of having one name yet being like tons of different companies.
There is Volvo Aero, Volvo Penta, Volvo Trucks, Volvo construction machinery dunno if thats all, howver these are not owned by Ford

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Volvo is a Ford brand

No, it isn't... never has been, never will be...

You are wrong, european.

Ford buys volvo

You should read those links before you post them... ford bought a PORTION of volvo.. not VOLVO...

Maybe YOU should read them. Ford owns and controls Volvo cars. Volvo trucks is still Volvo.

It's like saying that Volvo owns and controls mitsubishi... what you have too look at is: who is the bigger shareholder... as a company... volvo is owned and controlled by the swedish company volvo... which is latin for we roll...

Ford owns the entire volvo car division.

Okey Lucky... i know that, but HOW MANY SHARES OF VOLVO DO THEY OWN? Who is the bigger shareholder in volvo??

THAT was what i was asking... look it up... or take my word for it... it is NOT ford...

Man... i dunno... these threads surely turn fast... Sadly the original question should never have been asked, because it has more to do with americans putting down the rest of the world than being proud of their own country...

It doesn't matter who owns the most shares in the Volvo Group (which is much bigger than the car division). It matters that Ford owns and controls the CAR DIVISION.

look who's damn name is on the Volvo CARS website. Click on the name, and see that FORD calls the Volvo a FORD brand.

are you real dense, look at what i wrote.... and why doesnt it matter who owns volvo? why does it matter who owns the car division? because you want to be right... that's why...

But ford does NOT OWN VOLVO... that was my point... that was what i said... oh, and i will stick to my previous statement... europe isn't 25 years ahead, and as all of europe is democratic, we can change whatever we want...

Most of europe is socialistic because WE HAVE VOTED FOR SOCIALISTIC PARTIES... it is a choice... now... if we are so envious of you, why on earth do we continue to do so... ? Actually, most of europe do not view the us as the perfect state, but we do not say that we are any better... there is a difference... there are ups and downs with both your and our system... but at least we do not bitch about how superior we are...

 

[Pliablemoose]

Euro-posters seem to be forgetting the recent swing to the right in many European countries...

They're finding out being all things to all people is expensive.

 

[zengeos]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: AmusedOne



are you real dense, look at what i wrote.... and why doesnt it matter who owns volvo? why does it matter who owns the car division? because you want to be right... that's why...

But ford does NOT OWN VOLVO... that was my point... that was what i said... oh, and i will stick to my previous statement... europe isn't 25 years ahead, and as all of europe is democratic, we can change whatever we want...

Most of europe is socialistic because WE HAVE VOTED FOR SOCIALISTIC PARTIES... it is a choice... now... if we are so envious of you, why on earth do we continue to do so... ? Actually, most of europe do not view the us as the perfect state, but we do not say that we are any better... there is a difference... there are ups and downs with both your and our system... but at least we do not bitch about how superior we are...

The reason why it matters is the discussion was about cars...automobiles and car companies so the general response was in reference TO car companies.

Mark-

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Euro-posters seem to be forgetting the recent swing to the right in many European countries...

They're finding out being all things to all people is expensive.

Actually, the problem with that statement is both that it is wrong and that you really cannot say anything regarding europe as A WHOLE... that would be like lumping together both south and north america and maybe africa too... The recent swing to right is most obvious in countries that have been communistic, and they are closing in on the other countries that have always been more to the right than them...

Lumping together sweden with Spain would be like lumping together Washington with brasil... it is extremely different...

The people, the climate, the opinions and values... it is very different...

The reason why it matters is the discussion was about cars...automobiles and car companies so the general response was in reference TO car companies.

Ok, cannot dispute that... i was wrong...

 

[zengeos]

Indeed.

Blanket statements are a tad disingenuous.

To say *Europeans or Americans* feel this way or that way or have this or that attitude is making a blanket statement.

Yes, perhaps some feel a certain way, but others do not.

To say Americans are too America-centric is making a blanket statement. Just as saying Europeans are all commies is a blanket statement.

Yes, there are some people that fit the statements, but certainly not all. Probably not even a majority.

Mark-

 

[element2k5]

well... if you think about it europeans generally colonized the known world... so as americans we fought against the british to break free of the monarchy so by being patriotic... it may just be going against everything that they have learned to

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: zengeos
Indeed.

Blanket statements are a tad disingenuous.

To say *Europeans or Americans* feel this way or that way or have this or that attitude is making a blanket statement.

Yes, perhaps some feel a certain way, but others do not.

To say Americans are too America-centric is making a blanket statement. Just as saying Europeans are all commies is a blanket statement.

Yes, there are some people that fit the statements, but certainly not all. Probably not even a majority.

Mark-

Well Mark, i have read enough in this forum to make me believe that many americans are just waiting for a reason to condemn europeans... it's not like we are your born enemies, and no, we are not jealous of you, we have created and elected our own states and governments...

If we wanted the american system in europe, we would have voted for the ones who represent such politics, yup, there are plenty who do... but we don't and no, it's not because we are stupid, it's because we truly believe that our system is a better one... for us...

So forget your pride, skip your remarks, every nation has it's faults... so does yours...

 

[VFAA]

Originally posted by: VFAA
How did we get off with this to Israel?

And if we're talking about economy, let's take cars for example...
How many American made cars do we see in Europe? ie. Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth, Jeep, GMC/Pontiac/Chevrolet/Buick, Ford...?
Now how many European made cars do we see in North America? ie. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Lexus, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, VVW, Alfa Romeo, SAAB, Audi, Volvo, Land Rover and many, many others that we see on daily basis?

I think Europe and East Asia own the car department.

Ok let me rephrase the question.
How many Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth, Jeep, GMC/Pontiac/Chevrolet/Buick and Ford cars do we see manufactured in Europe under these names. Fast answer, I think Ford does from them all.
How many BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, VVW, Alfa Romeo, SAAB, Audi, Volvo, Land Rover and others are made in North America? I haven't heard of any, yet.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: B00ne What do u mean with trade barriers as far as I know the trade barriers are at the US not on our part. US cars are not sold in Europe because they are not competitive - period. To heavy, to big, to much gas, too old technology, to unsafe, oh and this one is personal, many of the pure US cars also lack the visual appeal

BWAHAAHAHAHAHA! Europeans accusing the US of protectionism! That's almost as funny as the chick who'd never heard of an aircraft carrier.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: VFAA Ok let me rephrase the question.
How many Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth, Jeep, GMC/Pontiac/Chevrolet/Buick and Ford cars do we see manufactured in Europe under these names. Fast answer, I think Ford does from them all.
How many BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Jaguar, VVW, Alfa Romeo, SAAB, Audi, Volvo, Land Rover and others are made in North America? I haven't heard of any, yet.

Oh, so now the United States is inferior because foreign companies don't have plants here? I don't see the logic in that, but actually, BMW has a plant here, Daimler-Chrysler has a Mercedes Benz plant here, and you do realize that Lamborghini, Ferrari, Rolls Royce and Alfa Romeo together sell about 2 cars a year. Are you ready to give up yet, or are you going to get even more absurd?