Why are no benchmarks ever run with 2x AA as well as 4x?

[Polish3d]

With my own experiences (see other thread), I would bet that the GTX will perform equally with the X1800xt w/ 2x AA / Full AF


This would narrow things down even more... I mean if it really came down to just a difference from 2x AA to 4x AA??

Which would you choose ?


In this case I'd probably go GTX but I'd like to see a 512 1.2ns version (that should have been out in the first place IMO)

 

[DRavisher]

I game at 1920x1200, and find 2xAA to be enough. I just set it at 2xAA in all games and there are no jaggies bothering me. I guess this would be more of an issue the lower resolution you game at.

 

[nRollo]

Doesn't 2X AA only work on horizontal, not diagonal, unless it's QuincunX?

I agree that at 19X12 the need for AA is greatly diminished though.

BTW- if you do a search, you can find my 6600GT SLI benchmarks at 2X. I wanted to prove a hunch that the difference between a 6600GT SLI and a 6800GT was 2X AA vs 4X AA, and did.

 

[DRavisher]

@Rollo: Didn't know that about 2xAA. hmm. I am happy anyway, since the jaggies bother me a little with no AA, and they cease to bother me at 2xAA. I think I will do some screenshots of the different modes though (2xAA vs. 2xQ). Just to see the difference.

 

[Polish3d]

How can you get quincux to work w/o crashing ???

 

[TerracideDK]

Originally posted by: Frackal
How can you get quincux to work w/o crashing ???

I never had any problem on my Ti4600 with it?
My 9800Pro din't have that feature.
Since I now got a 6800Gt I use 4xAA insted but I can look and see if it works?

Terra...

 

[Polish3d]

Please do, for me in DOD-S or BF 2 it crashes

 

[Topweasel]

I find 2x AA decent but I really stop noticing a difference at 4xAA, sure I could probably look at a fence or a wire really hard I could see the jaggies well, for the most part I only turn the the AA and AF and other goodies up to max is to show the friends what a real computer can do.

 

[DRavisher]

Originally posted by: Frackal
How can you get quincux to work w/o crashing ???

It didn't work in FarCry for me Don't know about other games.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doesn't 2X AA only work on horizontal, not diagonal, unless it's QuincunX?

That's only with ordered-grid AA. "2x" OGAA actually means either 1x2 or 2x1 edge sampling (XxY axes). Probably most 2x consumer-level OGAA implementations were 2x1 because we loves our horizons. 4xOGAA is actually 2x2.

Rotated grid is superior in that the edge resolution works in both axes and is equal to the number associated with it. So, 2xRGAA gives you twice the edge resolution in both X and Y axes; 4x, four times. The reason is that the samples points don't occupy the same X or Y coordinates in each axis, so you get as many edge samples as AA samples in either axis. It's easy to see the difference b/w OG and RG here, if you compare the FX's 4x and 4xS modes. Ignore the green dots, focus on the red ones. You can see that with 4x (OG), you only have two levels in either axis. With 4xS (RG), you get four levels in either axis, or twice the edge resolution in either axis.

I'm almost positive I learned most of this from Kristof's and Dave's AA article commissioned by 3dfx back in the day and available at B3D. (The Voodoo 5's AA was so good in part b/c it was RG--it was also temporal, IIRC--while nV and ATi were still using OG.) I hope most of this is right, and I'm not just misleading all of you. If you want to be sure, go read those AA articles at B3D, or look at the AA patterns shown in the 9700P and 5800U reviews (where you'll see ATI is RG in 2x and 4x and actually sparse grid in 6x, while nV is RG in 2x and merely OG in 4x).

AFAIK, Quincunx is different in that it's actually a sort of blur filter, thus resulting in a perceived reduction in jaggies, whereas MS and SS AA actually increase edge resolution without blurring anything.

 

[TerracideDK]

Originally posted by: Frackal
Please do, for me in DOD-S or BF 2 it crashes

Oh, well I don't have those games.
Since my army days I tend to dislikes those sort of games.
(lan-frag-surive-a-shoot-games)
But Silent Hunter III, Pacific Fighters, DoomIII, Farcry and Warhammer 40K al works fine with all my AA options selected from CP...

 

[Polish3d]

What makes you dislike them? (I can guess but would like to hear.)

 

[TerracideDK]

Originally posted by: Frackal
What makes you dislike them? (I can guess but would like to hear.)

They suck.
The live of the "idea" that you ar e doing real combat.
But overlook some real-world-war-rules/facts.

1. Rush and you die.
2. Get hit and you die or get incapacitated(out of the combat loop)
3. Moving and shooting is only done in Holloywood...
4. To many kids/cheaters on the servers.
5. You never attack when evenly forced..you go for a 3-1 advantage...even the Romans knew this.
6. The weapons are unrealistic.
7. I am far better with a weapon IRL on a course than in any game I have tried..the lack of control/movement annoys me.

Terra - I can say more if you feel that dosn't cover it?

 

[johnnqq]

for the same reason there arent any benchmakrs for 800x600 at all lowest settings.

 

[5150Joker]

Depends on the game because in BF2 the difference between 2x and 4xAA is night and day. With 2xAA you have a really bad texture aliasing problem but once you bump up the settings to 4x, the texture aliasing is virtually gone.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: TerracideDK

Originally posted by: Frackal
What makes you dislike them? (I can guess but would like to hear.)

They suck.
The live of the "idea" that you ar e doing real combat.
But overlook some real-world-war-rules/facts.

1. Rush and you die.
2. Get hit and you die or get incapacitated(out of the combat loop)
3. Moving and shooting is only done in Holloywood...
4. To many kids/cheaters on the servers.
5. You never attack when evenly forced..you go for a 3-1 advantage...even the Romans knew this.
6. The weapons are unrealistic.
7. I am far better with a weapon IRL on a course than in any game I have tried..the lack of control/movement annoys me.

Terra - I can say more if you feel that dosn't cover it?

Translation: You suck at the game and therefore you don't like it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: Rollo
Doesn't 2X AA only work on horizontal, not diagonal, unless it's QuincunX?

That's only with ordered-grid AA. "2x" OGAA actually means either 1x2 or 2x1 edge sampling (XxY axes). Probably most 2x consumer-level OGAA implementations were 2x1 because we loves our horizons. 4xOGAA is actually 2x2.

Ah, thanks Pete, I forgot that only applied to 2X OGAA.

AFAIK, Quincunx is different in that it's actually a sort of blur filter, thus resulting in a perceived reduction in jaggies, whereas MS and SS AA actually increase edge resolution without blurring anything.

A "blur filter"? I think that's just the effect on the textures of it's sampling pattern?
http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/previews/3046/5/

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: TerracideDK

Originally posted by: Frackal
What makes you dislike them? (I can guess but would like to hear.)

They suck.
The live of the "idea" that you ar e doing real combat.
But overlook some real-world-war-rules/facts.

1. Rush and you die.
2. Get hit and you die or get incapacitated(out of the combat loop)
3. Moving and shooting is only done in Holloywood...
4. To many kids/cheaters on the servers.
5. You never attack when evenly forced..you go for a 3-1 advantage...even the Romans knew this.
6. The weapons are unrealistic.
7. I am far better with a weapon IRL on a course than in any game I have tried..the lack of control/movement annoys me.

Terra - I can say more if you feel that dosn't cover it?

Translation: You suck at the game and therefore you don't like it.

That's not what he said.

I don't like BF2 either, largely because to me shooting men, helicopters, tanks, and jeeps is sort of dull.

I play video games to escape reality, BF2 is too much like reality.

Some people mock Doom 3 gameplay, but I'll take walking into a room with a guy chained to a pentagram in the ceiling with his guts tacked open who screams and calls a horde of monsters who crawl in along the ceiling to shooting some guys in army suits running around an army base any day. With a normal rifle no less. How dull is rat-a-tat-tat compared to the stream of plasma balls or the gravity gun?

To me BF2 feels like an Army conbat simulator for a training class.

Bring on FEAR and Quake4!

 

[BFG10K]

2xAA is quite useless as it's generally too weak to remove jagged edges properly.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
2xAA is quite useless as it's generally too weak to remove jagged edges properly.

Link to reviews supporting your assertion? Settings involved so people don't overgeneralize?

Or is it your contention that 10X7 4XAA looks better than 20X15 2X AA, both RG AA?

 

[BFG10K]

Link to reviews supporting your assertion?

Err, perhaps if you actually tried different modes other than your review-sanctioned 4xAA mode then perhaps you'd get some clue.

Or is it your contention that 10X7 4XAA looks better than 20X15 2X AA, both RG AA?

No, that's your contention. "Smack smack smack", "kicks ass at 1024x768", "we don't need to go higher than 1024x768", remember?

To then turn around and accuse me of demanding low resolutions when it was in fact you that was pimping them is the height of hypocrisy.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Rollo

To me BF2 feels like an Army conbat simulator for a training class.

Bring on FEAR and Quake4!

We're talking about multiplayer games though. You can have your Quake4 multiplayer. Running around mindlessly killing each other with rayguns. Or grabbing stupid little flags and running around with them.

Give me a reality-based multiplayer shooter any day. Reality is always more compelling IMO. Look at reality TV and movies that are 'based on a true story.'

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
We're talking about multiplayer games though. You can have your Quake4 multiplayer. Running around mindlessly killing each other with rayguns. Or grabbing stupid little flags and running around with them.

Well, I love CTF and I love rayguns. There's a Quake Con every year and has been for many years. There is no "BF2 Con", and never will be.

Give me a reality-based multiplayer shooter any day. Reality is always more compelling IMO. Look at reality TV and movies that are 'based on a true story.'

Hmmmm. Most movies are just stories by far. Most tv just sucks, reality tv usually does. There's nothing "compelling" about watching some redneck doofuses play tug of war in the tropics, or some redneck doofuses try to discover who "The Mole" is.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Link to reviews supporting your assertion?

Err, perhaps if you actually tried different modes other than your review-sanctioned 4xAA mode then perhaps you'd get some clue.

So you don't have any links to back up your statement 2X "is useless" so you've opted to attack me instead? Good job BFG, I'm sure everyone takes your word for it and the mods will be glad you're taking their sticky seriously. Argumentative and non responsive.

Or is it your contention that 10X7 4XAA looks better than 20X15 2X AA, both RG AA?

No, that's your contention. "Smack smack smack", "kicks ass at 1024x768", "we don't need to go higher than 1024x768", remember?

To then turn around and accuse me of demanding low resolutions when it was in fact you that was pimping them is the height of hypocrisy.

[/quote]

Nobody cares about our discussions three years ago about the 5800U BFG. I asked a simple question that you chose not to answer at all. Instead, you ignored the mods sticky and flamed me with this off topic reply.

I think it's sad when members of such long standing ignore the mods request for less flaming and baiting.

I asked a relatively simple question, you didn't bother to defend your point, I guess all we can do is think you concede it. Works for me.

I realize you for some reason still think I have a 5800Ultra, but I have two 7800GTXs pushed by a X2 4600+, there are no settings anyone on this planet can run that I can't.

 

[imported_g33k]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: M0RPH
We're talking about multiplayer games though. You can have your Quake4 multiplayer. Running around mindlessly killing each other with rayguns. Or grabbing stupid little flags and running around with them.

Well, I love CTF and I love rayguns. There's a Quake Con every year and has been for many years. There is no "BF2 Con", and never will be.

Give me a reality-based multiplayer shooter any day. Reality is always more compelling IMO. Look at reality TV and movies that are 'based on a true story.'

Hmmmm. Most movies are just stories by far. Most tv just sucks, reality tv usually does. There's nothing "compelling" about watching some redneck doofuses play tug of war in the tropics, or some redneck doofuses try to discover who "The Mole" is.

So true Rollo so true. Reality TV sux :thumbsdown: Which why I am posting in internet forums.