Why are people so dumb?!!!!!!!!!

[BriGy86]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: BriGy86

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: timswim78

Originally posted by: lilcam
So this lady brings a laptop into my office yesterday as I was leaving. She needed Photoshop installed on it. Upon turning it on, I immediately saw how slow it was. She told me it was working fine and asked what I did to it! So, I rebooted it again thinking it was something minor but it still was slow. Anyways, to make the long story short, I had to take it home and now I'm formatting the hard drive. Well, she has documents she left on there and now I have to tell her the files will be lost.

We have a policy where you need to save your files on the file server and NOT on your personal desktop/laptop. Oh well, she'll be b!tching! What is wrong with ppl? They complain when you tell them how to do things right, and they dont wanna listen as it is.

GRRRRRRR, I need to leave IT

Yea, I wonder why people are so dumb.

There was this "IT" guy who found that a computer was slow. So, he decided to reformat the drive without backing up any of the files on it first.

hehe

I don't let the IT morons at work touch my machine...well theres one good one.. a UNIX admin but the rest are dumb dumb.


We are probably going to can them all and outsource IT.

im just curious as to why the IT guys at your work are "morons"

Well we have about 14 of them and I had to get my Rocks linux cluster up and running because they were all too clueless after about 7 meetings and a month of trouble shooting I did it myself (with the UNIX guys help) in weekend. So you tell me should a materials engineer know more about computers than IT guys? I coulds go on basically forever but they might be watching..they sure aint working.

there may be more to the story that i don't know, but just because they aren't familiar with linux doesn't make them morons

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: gigapet
I mean can you give me a scenerio when you think someone in the business world needs to CONSTANTLY install/uninstall ??

If they sell and market software, then heck yeah!

And what about software that requires administrative access to run?

What about users who work remotely and need to be able to be supported remotely (even when a VPN isn't available)?

There are plenty of reasons. Just because you havne't encountered them yourself doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: gigapet
maybe you should look into a VPN for them if you have so many travelling and accessing networks from outside the main campus.

You're assuming that company XYZ can afford the hardware and additional support costs of such an investment.

But for what it's worth, we do have a VPN. However, many of our customers are government sites. You walk into a restricted building and tell them you're VPN'ing to another network . Because of this, our people need to be able to access the Internet with or without. I know it's a bit of a unique situation, but it's one you weren't aware of. How many other unique situations could there be that we don't have firsthand knowledge of; situations that prevent such neat, canned solutions. I'm not trying to be smug, I'm just saying that for every perfect scenario out there, there are any number of exceptions.

Originally posted by: gigapet
Sales people need to install and uninstall constantly??? why???? I don't get taht at all please explain.

Software updates that are released while they're on-site is just one of many reasons. The only groups in my company that don't have "power user" needs are accounting, finance, and marketing. Everyone else needs it, whether it's because they need the ability to add/remove software when they're on the road or because they software they're running requires administrative privilages.

Originally posted by: gigapet
The user at the OPs company was a typical business person....they wanted photoshop put on their already diseased machine. And the process wfor getting software installed was hey here is my machine install it....great.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but it's a reasonable possibility that had the user taken that approach with EVERYTHING they installed, including Kazaa, she wouldn't have had a problem. Likewise, had she saved her data where she was told to, she wouldn't have had a problem. We all know that machines don't just "slow down" because they get tired one day. She did something to it. We all know that there's about a 1% chance that she didn't fvck it up beforehand.

I used to work for the Desktop standards group that established policy and standards hardware, software and help desk for a company with 200k employees.

Honestly, that probably gives you a great background. I think that would have been an interesting job and you probably have a lot of insight you could offer companies who need consulting in these areas. However, you do need to realize that many IT departments are severely constrained by their budget. Whether or not you had to take that into account in your previous position, I don't think you're giving it the attention it deserves in this discussion. It's a very real problem in many IT departments.

I agree I have a large scale view point but I know their are little things that folks an IT can do that can vastly improve whats going on without increasing costs. Diseased computers even on unlocked machines can be 95% of the time completely avoided. You cannot avoid legitamate hardware failures or the occassional softwware conflicts but I just think having dieseased machines in any sized organization is inexcusable as many great tools are aviabled for free these days.

 

[skace]

Gigapet is not accounting for every scenario. It is very easy to lock a machine down via active directory, it is very hard to make that locked down build work in every situation. There are applications that write to specific directories or they do not run at all (3rd party apps / etc), there are temporary directories that users can find and write to, what happens if the users network share is offline or the quota is locked? Do they simply not save their work and lose it or do they temporarily save it to the local drive and move it to the share later? How do you administrate printer driver installs, a user should be able to install their own printer queues or you your ticket counts are about to go through the roof.

Getting back to the subject at hand, my standpoint is that the policy of not writing to your disk is there to cover the businesses ass. If you were saving files to C: and your machine blew up on the spot, the company is not going to spend thousands of dollars getting it sent out and salvaged. They are going to reference the policy and see too bad. But if an IT person manually reformats the drive for no reason other than slowness, they are abusing that policy and what I would consider bad business practice. Like I said earlier, it won't get you fired, but your customers won't be writing love letters about how you saved the day either.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: KMDupont64
I hate when IT developers and lumped in with moronic IT Helpdesk people as "IT".

i hate when hardware people get lumped in with ignorant develpers into a group calle "IT".

j/k btw.

for the record, the worst abusers of hardware support i've encountered has generally been from coders that THINK they know hardware. their attitudes don't help either.

LOL. Yeah I have met some coders that think they know everything about developing and hardware, because they had a Fortran job 20 years ago and now they are doing mainframe. It isn't like you need a Computer Science degree or certification for either of those. :roll:

BTW, I have done my fair share of hardware and programming because of the jobs that I have done, but I won't even get into the new server stuff they have out there. I will be the first to admit some of that stuff I have never learned before.

And, yeah, it is dumb to lump up software developers with hardware IT. They are two different entities and should work side by side, but not as one unit.

Unfortunately, you are right. There are many apps people that are morons. BUT, with that being said, the attitude of hardware people these days is just ignorant. To think that going to the Chubb institute or playing with Linux at home can substitute a good Computer Science background is just ridiculous.

---
Just realized my post didn't really reply to you, it was more of a vent

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: gigapet
I mean can you give me a scenerio when you think someone in the business world needs to CONSTANTLY install/uninstall ??

If they sell and market software, then heck yeah!

And what about software that requires administrative access to run?

What about users who work remotely and need to be able to be supported remotely (even when a VPN isn't available)?

There are plenty of reasons. Just because you havne't encountered them yourself doesn't mean they don't exist.

If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine. The software shouldnt cause any problems if they are supposed to be selling and marketing it.....

Remote users are always gonna be a problem and they are likely the only ones that should be granted exceptions on a case by case basis.

The reasons are not that plentiful actually. There will be always be exceptions to any rule that doesnt mean you should avoid making and enforcing rules.

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: skace
Gigapet is not accounting for every scenario. It is very easy to lock a machine down via active directory, it is very hard to make that locked down build work in every situation. There are applications that write to specific directories or they do not run at all (3rd party apps / etc), there are temporary directories that users can find and write to, what happens if the users network share is offline or the quota is locked? Do they simply not save their work and lose it or do they temporarily save it to the local drive and move it to the share later? How do you administrate printer driver installs, a user should be able to install their own printer queues or you your ticket counts are about to go through the roof.

Getting back to the subject at hand, my standpoint is that the policy of not writing to your disk is there to cover the businesses ass. If you were saving files to C: and your machine blew up on the spot, the company is not going to spend thousands of dollars getting it sent out and salvaged. They are going to reference the policy and see too bad. But if an IT person manually reformats the drive for no reason other than slowness, they are abusing that policy and what I would consider bad business practice. Like I said earlier, it won't get you fired, but your customers won't be writing love letters about how you saved the day either.

If you have printer standards...then you can just ship all mahcines with universal drivers.

 

[Toasthead]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Triumph
Put everything on the network? That's a stupid policy, I wouldn't follow it to the letter. And who reformats a user's hard drive without at least checking on a need for backup, unless you work at CompUSA? Simple things like bookmarks are invaluable and would get lost in that situation. I think you're pretty inconsiderate.

roaming profiles, save on network, nothing lost

roaming profiles SUCK

 

[Turkish]

stop freakin nested quoting you IT jerks! i got lost as to which message i wanted to reply to

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine.

Our software is in constant development. New features are constantly being added as users request (or demand) them. On top of that, it's not uncommon for a sales person (or a trainer) to be gone for a week or two at a time.

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine. The software shouldnt cause any problems if they are supposed to be selling and marketing it.....

Who said it was causing problems? It's merely one reason of many that mandated the need for them to be able to install/uninstall software. On top of that, though, some of our software packages do require administrative rights.

But suppose there is a problem with the software. Maybe a bug is discovered the night before a presentation. The last thing you want on your hands is a LIVID salesperson, a PISSED OFF Vice President of Sales, and a Vice President of Technology who's in the hotseat, all because the remote laptop was locked down too far to get things in order. I know I know... we shouldn't be selling buggy software, but you do need to be able to catch yourself when you fall .

Originally posted by: gigapet
The reasons are not that plentiful actually. There will be always be exceptions to any rule that doesnt mean you should avoid making and enforcing rules.

I disagree; I believe the reasons are quite plentiful. But if we can't agree on that, fine. I never said we should avoid making and enforcing rules... the problem is that the rules aren't always the same from company to company, nor can they be.

For what it's worth, I've worked at 3 companies. All of them had relatively vast amounts of remote users. The worst was working for a network of doctors. You want PMS'ing userbase, go work for doctors!

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine.

Our software is in constant development. New features are constantly being added as users request (or demand) them. On top of that, it's not uncommon for a sales person (or a trainer) to be gone for a week or two at a time.

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine. The software shouldnt cause any problems if they are supposed to be selling and marketing it.....

Who said it was causing problems? It's merely one reason of many that mandated the need for them to be able to install/uninstall software. On top of that, though, some of our software packages do require administrative rights.

But suppose there is a problem with the software. Maybe a bug is discovered the night before a presentation. The last thing you want on your hands is a LIVID salesperson, a PISSED OFF Vice President of Sales, and a Vice President of Technology who's in the hotseat, all because the remote laptop was locked down too far to get things in order. I know I know... we shouldn't be selling buggy software, but you do need to be able to catch yourself when you fall .

Originally posted by: gigapet
The reasons are not that plentiful actually. There will be always be exceptions to any rule that doesnt mean you should avoid making and enforcing rules.

I disagree; I believe the reasons are quite plentiful. But if we can't agree on that, fine. I never said we should avoid making and enforcing rules... the problem is that the rules aren't always the same from company to company, nor can they be.

For what it's worth, I've worked at 3 companies. All of them had relatively vast amounts of remote users. The worst was working for a network of doctors. You want PMS'ing userbase, go work for doctors!

Ok that is a totally legitamate scenerio, the guy has experience with loading software already and it is required that he be able to do it any time he wants.....lump him in with IT folks...and they should be able to install all day long. Still doesn't change my statement though...i said there are always going to be necessary exceptions with folks on the road especially. However back to the OP....for a business user that needs 1 or 2 things installed a year.....they don't NEED admin.

 

[BriGy86]

one thing i like is when a customer comes in and needs a new motherboard for their laptop and its still under warranty, if that happens we HAVE to send it to the manufacturer which takes about 2-3 weeks depending on parts (we have no control over that)

then the customer says its unacceptable and says "give me another option"

well since we have no control over it there are no other options, then they just stand there and get all pissy, rather than finding a diff place that may take less time or trying to call the manufacturer themselves
(keep in mind this is all told to them before the unit is checked in)

appearently they think we are the only tech. shop in the state, or have no phone to call the manfacturer

 

[DPmaster]

We used to have our laptops locked down pretty tight but had to loosen our restrictions a bit because they couldn't do a lot of their work while traveling. Our laptop users used to not be able to change their network settings which caused them not to be able to connect to the internet while on the road. We finally had to allow them admin privileges just so that they could change their settings to DHCP to allow them internet access. If the laptops had wi-fi or if we had a VPN in place, this wouldn't be an issue but sadly we do not. Our network admin feels a VPN isn't something worthwhile. Bah.

Personally I'd rather have all of our users end up with nothing but desktops because I really don't see a need for laptops here where I work. The head honchos don't feel this way though and what they say goes. We've also got a policy in place where if the computer is idle for over 10 minutes, it automatically goes into password-protected screensaver mode. Everyone follows this policy except for you guessed it - the head honchos. The head guy doesn't like it because it "slows him down to where he can't get any work done." That's a bunch of crap but I can't do anything about it.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine.

Our software is in constant development. New features are constantly being added as users request (or demand) them. On top of that, it's not uncommon for a sales person (or a trainer) to be gone for a week or two at a time.

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine. The software shouldnt cause any problems if they are supposed to be selling and marketing it.....

Who said it was causing problems? It's merely one reason of many that mandated the need for them to be able to install/uninstall software. On top of that, though, some of our software packages do require administrative rights.

But suppose there is a problem with the software. Maybe a bug is discovered the night before a presentation. The last thing you want on your hands is a LIVID salesperson, a PISSED OFF Vice President of Sales, and a Vice President of Technology who's in the hotseat, all because the remote laptop was locked down too far to get things in order. I know I know... we shouldn't be selling buggy software, but you do need to be able to catch yourself when you fall .

Originally posted by: gigapet
The reasons are not that plentiful actually. There will be always be exceptions to any rule that doesnt mean you should avoid making and enforcing rules.

I disagree; I believe the reasons are quite plentiful. But if we can't agree on that, fine. I never said we should avoid making and enforcing rules... the problem is that the rules aren't always the same from company to company, nor can they be.

For what it's worth, I've worked at 3 companies. All of them had relatively vast amounts of remote users. The worst was working for a network of doctors. You want PMS'ing userbase, go work for doctors!

Ok that is a totally legitamate scenerio, the guy has experience with loading software already and it is required that he be able to do it any time he wants.....lump him in with IT folks...and they should be able to install all day long. Still doesn't change my statement though...i said there are always going to be necessary exceptions with folks on the road especially. However back to the OP....for a business user that needs 1 or 2 things installed a year.....they don't NEED admin.

Where I work we use DB2 Connect for our inhouse software to work, this DB2Connect comes from IBM and just simply requires users to have admin rights for any of the connections to work. Or to put it better, DB2Connect requires java which requires admin rights.

I wish programers just made web applications

 

[BriGy86]

Originally posted by: DPmaster
We used to have our laptops locked down pretty tight but had to loosen our restrictions a bit because they couldn't do a lot of their work while traveling. Our laptop users used to not be able to change their network settings which caused them not to be able to connect to the internet while on the road. We finally had to allow them admin privileges just so that they could change their settings to DHCP to allow them internet access. If the laptops had wi-fi or if we had a VPN in place, this wouldn't be an issue but sadly we do not. Our network admin feels a VPN isn't something worthwhile. Bah.

Personally I'd rather have all of our users end up with nothing but desktops because I really don't see a need for laptops here where I work. The head honchos don't feel this way though and what they say goes. We've also got a policy in place where if the computer is idle for over 10 minutes, it automatically goes into password-protected screensaver mode. Everyone follows this policy except for you guessed it - the head honchos. The head guy doesn't like it because it "slows him down to where he can't get any work done." That's a bunch of crap but I can't do anything about it.

sounds like he is working REALLY hard with all those 10 minute idle spans he has :roll:

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: BriGy86
then the customer says its unacceptable and says "give me another option"

That was a pet peeve of mine.

"I've given you your options. Pick one."

 

[BriGy86]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: BriGy86
then the customer says its unacceptable and says "give me another option"

That was a pet peeve of mine.

"I've given you your options. Pick one."

EXACTLY!

on another note, did you ever get customer that call up to complain but they don't know what they are mad about?

i handed the phone off to my manager once and after he talked to her for a while he asked, "well, what is it exactly that you are mad about mam?"

she couldn't give him an answer

 

[gigapet]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: gigapet

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine.

Our software is in constant development. New features are constantly being added as users request (or demand) them. On top of that, it's not uncommon for a sales person (or a trainer) to be gone for a week or two at a time.

Originally posted by: gigapet
If they are selling software shouldnt all the software be already installed and tested on the machine. The software shouldnt cause any problems if they are supposed to be selling and marketing it.....

Who said it was causing problems? It's merely one reason of many that mandated the need for them to be able to install/uninstall software. On top of that, though, some of our software packages do require administrative rights.

But suppose there is a problem with the software. Maybe a bug is discovered the night before a presentation. The last thing you want on your hands is a LIVID salesperson, a PISSED OFF Vice President of Sales, and a Vice President of Technology who's in the hotseat, all because the remote laptop was locked down too far to get things in order. I know I know... we shouldn't be selling buggy software, but you do need to be able to catch yourself when you fall .

Originally posted by: gigapet
The reasons are not that plentiful actually. There will be always be exceptions to any rule that doesnt mean you should avoid making and enforcing rules.

I disagree; I believe the reasons are quite plentiful. But if we can't agree on that, fine. I never said we should avoid making and enforcing rules... the problem is that the rules aren't always the same from company to company, nor can they be.

For what it's worth, I've worked at 3 companies. All of them had relatively vast amounts of remote users. The worst was working for a network of doctors. You want PMS'ing userbase, go work for doctors!

Ok that is a totally legitamate scenerio, the guy has experience with loading software already and it is required that he be able to do it any time he wants.....lump him in with IT folks...and they should be able to install all day long. Still doesn't change my statement though...i said there are always going to be necessary exceptions with folks on the road especially. However back to the OP....for a business user that needs 1 or 2 things installed a year.....they don't NEED admin.

Where I work we use DB2 Connect for our inhouse software to work, this DB2Connect comes from IBM and just simply requires users to have admin rights for any of the connections to work. Or to put it better, DB2Connect requires java which requires admin rights.

I wish programers just made web applications

DB2 BOO HISSS!!!! ;0

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Czar
Where I work we use DB2 Connect for our inhouse software to work, this DB2Connect comes from IBM and just simply requires users to have admin rights for any of the connections to work. Or to put it better, DB2Connect requires java which requires admin rights.

I wish programers just made web applications

You're bringing back nightmares. Java + DB2 made me switch to .NET .

I HATED working with DB2. Of course, it didn't help that we were stuck on a version that was eleventy billion years old... but I'm not one to thread hijack...

 

[tRaptor]

OP I see what your saying, but in my opinion your just an ass. I work in a similar enviroment where they are not supposed to be saving stuff, but some people still do. When we give them a new machine or we need to re-image their computer, it does not take a lot for you to ask if they have some stuff you need backed up. It sounds to me like your supposed to do that but you choose to hide behind your "policy".

Policy does not apply to everyone all the time. We have video guys who have 1TB RAID setups in there machine. They are not editing vieo over the network.

Did you ever think "SHE HAS A LAPTOP" maybe shes going home to work on a project. Or maybe shes flying to china in a week and was making sure she had the files copied down. Yeah they shoud be "backed up" to the network, but maybe she worked all day on the local ones, thats a day of lost work.

You have to understand, that you being a "Computer Guy" or "Someone who knows how to use a computer" MAKES YOU THE MINORITY.

You being an ass costs your company productivity which means lost money.

 

[pontifex]

i've been working in IT for about 5 years now and i want out.
i am so tired of all the stuff you guys are talking about here. stupid users, fixing mistakes of stupid users, answering questions of stupid users, etc...

plus with this job, i don't even know how to use or know very much about half the software the users use and no one wants to show me how.

and don't even get me started on my boss...

the problem with getting another job is that i'm not trained in anything else. i have some kitchen experience from my 1st job, but thats not going to pay well and isn't exactly what i want to do. i am also not even sure what i want to do. going back to school isn't an option for several reasons.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: pontifex
i've been working in IT for about 5 years now and i want out.
i am so tired of all the stuff you guys are talking about here. stupid users, fixing mistakes of stupid users, answering questions of stupid users, etc...

plus with this job, i don't even know how to use or know very much about half the software the users use and no one wants to show me how.

and don't even get me started on my boss...

the problem with getting another job is that i'm not trained in anything else. i have some kitchen experience from my 1st job, but thats not going to pay well and isn't exactly what i want to do. i am also not even sure what i want to do. going back to school isn't an option for several reasons.

specialize yourself in the IT field, somewhere where you dont have to deal with users

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: pontifex
i've been working in IT for about 5 years now and i want out.
i am so tired of all the stuff you guys are talking about here. stupid users, fixing mistakes of stupid users, answering questions of stupid users, etc...

plus with this job, i don't even know how to use or know very much about half the software the users use and no one wants to show me how.

and don't even get me started on my boss...

the problem with getting another job is that i'm not trained in anything else. i have some kitchen experience from my 1st job, but thats not going to pay well and isn't exactly what i want to do. i am also not even sure what i want to do. going back to school isn't an option for several reasons.

specialize yourself in the IT field, somewhere where you dont have to deal with users

and how exactly do i do that without going back to school? i have a hard time teaching myself stuff from books. thats if i can even stick with it enough to learn it...

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: pontifex
i've been working in IT for about 5 years now and i want out.
i am so tired of all the stuff you guys are talking about here. stupid users, fixing mistakes of stupid users, answering questions of stupid users, etc...

plus with this job, i don't even know how to use or know very much about half the software the users use and no one wants to show me how.

and don't even get me started on my boss...

the problem with getting another job is that i'm not trained in anything else. i have some kitchen experience from my 1st job, but thats not going to pay well and isn't exactly what i want to do. i am also not even sure what i want to do. going back to school isn't an option for several reasons.

specialize yourself in the IT field, somewhere where you dont have to deal with users

and how exactly do i do that without going back to school? i have a hard time teaching myself stuff from books. thats if i can even stick with it enough to learn it...

Have your employer send you to seminars. Free education

 

[kitkat22]

My wife's computer at work has admin privileges. She came to me one day asking how to speed up the PIII 128MB WinXP machine, because IT wouldn't do it. It took IT 3 months just to get her connected when she first started. I told her what to do and computer is fixed, no problems. Now all her coworkers are coming to her and asking her what to do. I think it all depends on where you work. My university has everything locked down really tight, but they also have the resources (students) to do the menial stuff.