Why are presidential candidatesNOT talking about what should be the #1 issue for all Americans (if not the world)?

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
I've been quietly waiting for ANY candidate at ANY to address our burgeoning federal deficit. So far I've heard crickets. Without economic "freedom" and the ability to pay for all of these pie-in-the-sky programs that candidates are pushing ... how would they ever come to reality?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...idates-sweep-them-under-the-rug-idUSKCN1U715D


As U.S. debt, deficits mount, presidential candidates sweep them under the rug

"In four hours of debate among Democratic contenders for the U.S. presidency, the word “deficit” was never uttered and the government’s debt was mentioned only once.

The reality is that Democrats are reluctant to make a campaign issue out of one of America’s most vexing problems — the ballooning annual budget deficits and overall debt under President Donald Trump.

That’s because some of their most popular policies going into the 2020 election would present significant budget challenges of their own, including expanding Medicare health coverage and offering government help to cut college costs and reduce student debt.

While Democrats insist they have workable plans that will cover the costs of these proposals, Republicans counter that their tax-the-rich solutions are not realistic.

On their side of the political divide, Republicans are equally interested in keeping mum on the subject, having happily backed Trump’s massive tax cuts and a surge in military spending - two key drivers of the deficit blow-out - after championing fiscal conservatism for years.

By supporting Trump, many Republican lawmakers have essentially abandoned an already fading commitment to balanced budgets and cutting the national debt.

“I don’t think in this election cycle there seems to be much of an interest in addressing the issue,” lamented Senator Rob Portman, a former White House budget director.

Portman, a Republican, is seen as a hawk on government spending, although he was also a strong defender of the 2017 tax-cut law that will drive up the national debt by at least $1 trillion over 10 years.

TERMITES UNDER THE PORCH

Many economists worry rising debt will bring higher interest costs, increasing the pressure on future governments to make deep spending cuts or even causing the United States to default on its debt payments, which could wreak havoc on a global scale.

It’s like having termites underneath the porch, said Bill Hoagland, a senior vice president at the Bipartisan Policy Center, a Washington think tank focused on fiscal policy: “You step on the porch and everything’s fine... Then one day, you fall through.”

When he was running for president, Trump told The Washington Post he would pay off the national debt in about eight years. Instead, it has increased by $2.45 trillion since he took office in January 2017.

The total debt outstanding, amassed over many years of deficits, is now $22.4 trillion, its highest level ever, equal to about $68,000 of debt for every American.

The deficit has jumped from $666 billion in fiscal 2017, the final year President Barack Obama’s administration had an impact on budgets, to an expected $900 billion this year, and is projected to exceed $1 trillion a year by 2022.

“The prospect of such high and rising debt poses substantial risks for the nation,” the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said last month in its latest long-term outlook.

With the U.S. economy expanding, inflation and unemployment low and the stock market near record levels, the government could be expected to take advantage of the strong fundamentals to reduce deficits. But the opposite is happening.

Asked about rising deficits last month, White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow last month downplayed concerns: “It doesn’t bother me right now.”"
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,384
7,024
136
What are you talking about??? deficits??? More tax cuts for the rich and more tariffs on the middle class err the working poor!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,632
136
Most democratic candidates have said how they want to tax to pay for their programs.

I'm tired of indulging the "but how are you going to pay for it shit" that the media buys from the Republicans who never actually worry about paying for anything. They don't want to cut social programs because they cost money, they want to cut them because in their cores they think anybody without means should just fuck off and die.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
Don't worry, we'll talk about debt and deficits as soon as a Democrat is elected president again. At that point conservatives will go into full blown debt hysteria.

As a practical matter though there doesn't seem to be any immediate debt emergency for the US and if Japan is any indication we can sustain a much higher debt burden than we have now. Yes, it was dumb for Trump to jack up the debt to give rich people more money but it's not going to be the end of the world from some sort of debt crisis perspective.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Most democratic candidates have said how they want to tax to pay for their programs.

I'm tired of indulging the "but how are you going to pay for it shit" that the media buys from the Republicans who never actually worry about paying for anything. They don't want to cut social programs because they cost money, they want to cut them because in their cores they think anybody without means should just fuck off and die.

"FREE Healthcare for all!"
"FREE College!"

Notice, it's never "College paid for off the backs of everyone with income tax increases and/or VAT added to every purchase you make!"
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
"FREE Healthcare for all!"
"FREE College!"

Notice, it's never "College paid for off the backs of everyone with income tax increases and/or VAT added to every purchase you make!"

Yes, politicians usually brush off the downsides of the policies they support and emphasize the positives.

At least Democrats actually have a plan though and acknowledge that their policies have actual costs. Republicans just lie and say their tax cuts will pay for themselves.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,632
136
"FREE Healthcare for all!"
"FREE College!"

Notice, it's never "College paid for off the backs of everyone with income tax increases and/or VAT added to every purchase you make!"

This attack would have more weight if most, if not all, have said what/who they'll tax to pay for it.

The public doesn't want to even try comprehending anything complicated and trying to sell that as a candidate is futile. I mean the GOP tried to make the entire country terrified of the ACA and in large part it worked until people realized (in the last few years) what it actually did.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,618
5,311
136
I've been quietly waiting for ANY candidate at ANY to address our burgeoning federal deficit. So far I've heard crickets. Without economic "freedom" and the ability to pay for all of these pie-in-the-sky programs that candidates are pushing ... how would they ever come to reality?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...idates-sweep-them-under-the-rug-idUSKCN1U715D


As U.S. debt, deficits mount, presidential candidates sweep them under the rug

"In four hours of debate among Democratic contenders for the U.S. presidency, the word “deficit” was never uttered and the government’s debt was mentioned only once.

The reality is that Democrats are reluctant to make a campaign issue out of one of America’s most vexing problems — the ballooning annual budget deficits and overall debt under President Donald Trump.

That’s because some of their most popular policies going into the 2020 election would present significant budget challenges of their own, including expanding Medicare health coverage and offering government help to cut college costs and reduce student debt.

While Democrats insist they have workable plans that will cover the costs of these proposals, Republicans counter that their tax-the-rich solutions are not realistic.

On their side of the political divide, Republicans are equally interested in keeping mum on the subject, having happily backed Trump’s massive tax cuts and a surge in military spending - two key drivers of the deficit blow-out - after championing fiscal conservatism for years.

By supporting Trump, many Republican lawmakers have essentially abandoned an already fading commitment to balanced budgets and cutting the national debt.

“I don’t think in this election cycle there seems to be much of an interest in addressing the issue,” lamented Senator Rob Portman, a former White House budget director.

Portman, a Republican, is seen as a hawk on government spending, although he was also a strong defender of the 2017 tax-cut law that will drive up the national debt by at least $1 trillion over 10 years.

TERMITES UNDER THE PORCH

Many economists worry rising debt will bring higher interest costs, increasing the pressure on future governments to make deep spending cuts or even causing the United States to default on its debt payments, which could wreak havoc on a global scale.

It’s like having termites underneath the porch, said Bill Hoagland, a senior vice president at the Bipartisan Policy Center, a Washington think tank focused on fiscal policy: “You step on the porch and everything’s fine... Then one day, you fall through.”

When he was running for president, Trump told The Washington Post he would pay off the national debt in about eight years. Instead, it has increased by $2.45 trillion since he took office in January 2017.

The total debt outstanding, amassed over many years of deficits, is now $22.4 trillion, its highest level ever, equal to about $68,000 of debt for every American.

The deficit has jumped from $666 billion in fiscal 2017, the final year President Barack Obama’s administration had an impact on budgets, to an expected $900 billion this year, and is projected to exceed $1 trillion a year by 2022.

“The prospect of such high and rising debt poses substantial risks for the nation,” the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office said last month in its latest long-term outlook.

With the U.S. economy expanding, inflation and unemployment low and the stock market near record levels, the government could be expected to take advantage of the strong fundamentals to reduce deficits. But the opposite is happening.

Asked about rising deficits last month, White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow last month downplayed concerns: “It doesn’t bother me right now.”"
I don't think anyone is ever going to care, or attempt to correct the problem. Right now, every single issue turns into "orange man bad", and stalls out right there.
It became obvious during the Obama administration that no one cares about the debt, no one has any intention of addressing the problem, and that we'll continue down the road to rags until we run off the cliff at the end.
 
Reactions: Challenger

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,602
24,835
136
I don't think anyone is ever going to care, or attempt to correct the problem. Right now, every single issue turns into "orange man bad", and stalls out right there.
It became obvious during the Obama administration that no one cares about the debt, no one has any intention of addressing the problem, and that we'll continue down the road to rags until we run off the cliff at the end.

Wasn't the W administration that actually argued "deficits don't matter"?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,632
136
I don't think anyone is ever going to care, or attempt to correct the problem. Right now, every single issue turns into "orange man bad", and stalls out right there.
It became obvious during the Obama administration that no one cares about the debt, no one has any intention of addressing the problem, and that we'll continue down the road to rags until we run off the cliff at the end.

I don't even particularly blame Trump for the tax cuts other than his gross incompetence about what he was actually doing and the lies he told to sell it.

This is on the GOP who never met a debt paid for tax cut or war they didn't like despite their claims of fiscal responsibility.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,708
49,291
136
I don't think anyone is ever going to care, or attempt to correct the problem. Right now, every single issue turns into "orange man bad", and stalls out right there.
It became obvious during the Obama administration that no one cares about the debt, no one has any intention of addressing the problem, and that we'll continue down the road to rags until we run off the cliff at the end.

Why is it always, always this #bothsides nonsense? Empirical research shows very clearly that Obama running up the debt in response to the financial crisis was good economic policy even when you only consider the debt itself as it led to a lower debt/GDP ratio. That same research shows what Trump is doing now is bad economic policy. Not everything has to be tribal so stop projecting that onto us. If you go back and look at posts going back years you can see the arguments have stayed entirely consistent no matter who is in office. If that means Trump gets criticized while Obama gets praised well, that's what happens when one person has good economic policies and the other has bad ones.

Oddly enough history shows that Democrats are the only ones who actually care about the debt, although I think this is primarily a function of Republicans' opportunistic approach to the debt. Basically Republicans don't care about it when Republicans are in power and then screech about a debt crisis when Democrats are in power. This has nothing to do with their actual concerns about the debt though, it's just their way of arguing against government programs that would be otherwise popular.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,828
8,300
136
Seems to me some of the Democratic candidates are talking about taxing the super rich. duh.

Big deficit fills the pockets of the people who finance it, i.e. the big banks. Institutions and people with the big bucks who buy the bonds. Tax the super rich. Whittle down the deficit.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: alien42

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,519
13,091
136
"FREE Healthcare for all!"
"FREE College!"

Notice, it's never "College paid for off the backs of everyone with income tax increases and/or VAT added to every purchase you make!"

In contrast to the tax cut, those investments WILL PAY for themselves many times over. Its a bullet to the brain why you havent done it already.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
5,072
136
(Looks at Military budget and ongoing conflicts that the US is currently throwing money at. Looks at track record of US in creating conflicts cuz 'reasons' and how many want to start new conflicts because 'brown'. Also takes a look at long term forecast for entitlement spending for veteran care. )

Yeah....how about those social programs. Especially those big money ones (Medicare and SS) that make up the bulk of it that are focused on elder care.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
5,072
136
"FREE Healthcare for all!"
"FREE College!"

Notice, it's never "College paid for off the backs of everyone with income tax increases and/or VAT added to every purchase you make!"

Maybe your thoughts on the subject are the result of the media you consume.
 
Reactions: dank69
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
This attack would have more weight if most, if not all, have said what/who they'll tax to pay for it.

The public doesn't want to even try comprehending anything complicated and trying to sell that as a candidate is futile. I mean the GOP tried to make the entire country terrified of the ACA and in large part it worked until people realized (in the last few years) what it actually did.

And that's just it - you can't "tax the rich" and get free college. You can tax them at 100%, it still won't equal the massive amount of money needed to pay for that shit.

The answer is always "We will tax THEM more!" - reality, math, and facts will tell you that it is simply impossible to pay for everything off the backs of rich people.
 
Reactions: Challenger
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Maybe your thoughts on the subject are the result of the media you consume.

Are you trying to say that they don't say the words "free healthcare" and "free college" and that is only something seen on Fox news and CERTAINLY not on the democratic candidates own websites?
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,632
136
And that's just it - you can't "tax the rich" and get free college. You can tax them at 100%, it still won't equal the massive amount of money needed to pay for that shit.

The answer is always "We will tax THEM more!" - reality, math, and facts will tell you that it is simply impossible to pay for everything off the backs of rich people.

This isn't math this is rhetoric.

A low single digit tax on wealth of the top say 100K households would pay for free college/debt forgiveness and a lot of other stuff. This is Warren's proposal.

Others want to go after the income with crazy ideas like unearned income being taxed at the same rate as earned income.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,575
29,269
136
Are you trying to say that they don't say the words "free healthcare" and "free college" and that is only something seen on Fox news and CERTAINLY not on the democratic candidates own websites?
They say free healthcare paid for by the rich and free healthcare paid for by Wall Street.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,752
34,632
136
Are you trying to say that they don't say the words "free healthcare" and "free college" and that is only something seen on Fox news and CERTAINLY not on the democratic candidates own websites?

A lot of candidates talk about medicare for all when the range of policies out there have the variety of your neighborhood Baskin Robbins. Even the public doesn't largely agree on what the term means even if they are in support of the general concept that the government should cover more people or give people the option to purchase such coverage at affordable rates.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,127
2,167
136
Why are presidential candidates NOT talking about what should be the #1 issue for all Americans (if not the world)?



Because most regular voters don't really care about the deficit. The huge deficit is pie in the sky to them. They care about what directly affects them and how the proposed programs will help them - assistance with college tuition, school loans, healthcare, minimum wage increases, reparations, climate change, lower taxes, social justice, immigration, etc. with part of them paid by taxing the rich and corporations. I/You can't blame them.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,578
12,690
146
Meh. US Federal deficit is less of a big deal than environmental concerns (climate change) right now imo, even to Americans, much less the world.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Bernie came right out and said 'paid for by the middle class' in regards to 'free' healthcare for all. He was the only one who at least was honest about it. They can make all kinds of claims that the 'rich' will pay for it, but that is not likely to happen in the real world. The only time trickledown works is when they trickle the higher costs down to the lower wage tax payers.
 
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