Why are the nVidia IDE drivers so buggy?

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
76
I notice that the IDE drivers cause a lot of problems. Is there a specific reason for this?
 

CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
I hate those drivers, and if I don't install them, I don't have problems. I just uncheck the IDE driver from the unified package installation.

I find any IDE drivers can cause problems.. the VIA ones back in the day were bad too.
 

Tanclearas

Senior member
May 10, 2002
345
0
71
User error?

I've used a lot of nForce boards over the last few years. This includes 2 personal nForce boards (one nForce2 and one nForce4), 25 nForce2 boards in a computer lab, and roughly 30 nForce3 boards in user systems at work. I use the nVidia IDE drivers every time, all the time, and they have never caused any problems.
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
824
0
71
its not user error. at least with plextor drives it isn't. i have to use windows ide driver or it will crash my system. i even lost data on a archive drive at one point because of the amount of crashes i had in one day trying to burn a disc. it was even recommended by plextor that i avoid nvidias drivers
 

Satyrist

Senior member
Dec 11, 2000
458
1
81
plus, i believe that the supposed gains that were supposed to be gained by using their native ide drivers wasn't great enough to justify using them. An example of "give them performance, fvck compatibility" at its worst.
 

Tanclearas

Senior member
May 10, 2002
345
0
71
Ok. Perhaps not user error, but perhaps the problem is not with the nForce driver either.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Those things make my system have the s**ts. All this about DiamondMax 10 drives and nForce4 incompatibility and it's just the NVIDIA IDE driver. Whenever I flash my BIOS the NVIDIA kernel drivers don't like it. I booted up Windows, and got a BSOD describing nvatabus and nvcchflt failed to load. So I went to the recovery console and did "enable nvatabus SERVICE_DEMAND_START" and "enable nvcchflt SERVICE_DEMAND_START" to temporarily disable them. My system wouldn't boot at all, I imagine because I don't know what the regular Windows drivers are named. Worst thing by far to come out of NVIDIA's chipset dept. I'm surprised.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
LOL. Look at the response I got from ASUS when I e-mailed them about these crappy drivers. NVIDIA says to e-mail your motherboard manufacturer about problems with THEIR chipset. Whatever sense that makes.

The problem you are reporting is a stability issue and is usually caused by either the memory, power supply or the CPU running too hot. Please check with the memory maker to see if the module you are using has been tested or certified with the chipset on your motherboard.

I hate being treated like Joe 6-pack. 'Did you turn it on?' Of course they'd put what I said about 'other . people . having . this . problem' aside and just do wild guessing. Hey, why would they believe me? It's like they didn't even read half my e-mail. OK I can give him credit for writing like a 2-page e-mail back but unfortunately none of it is to any relevance.
 

arswihart

Senior member
Jul 16, 2001
541
0
0
I guess some people have problems with them in certain hardware configurations or combinations. I don't think I've ever had an nvidia IDE driver related problem, and I've always installed them as well, on both my nforce2 and nforce3 boards. It is frustrating that some obvious problems exist and aren't being fixed.

I think nvidia should by all means write such a driver for their own chipset, but I agree it needs to be fixed for situations like the one you had xtknight.
 

GadgetBuilder

Member
Dec 28, 2004
148
0
0
Sorry about the length of this but it is an ongoing problem of some importance.

It's unclear whether it is the drivers or something else going on with the nVidia stuff. I've been watching the nVidia forums for several months and notice a peculiar pattern to the complaints. Complaints are not limited to the IDE driver, all the nVidia drivers in the mobo set draw complaints, where the number and type of complaints change little over the (sparse number of) releases.

It is hard to say whether the problem is in individual drivers, the installer(which seems to be improving with each release) or perhaps something in the NF2/NF3/NF4 chips themselves that nVidia hasn't caught in their testing. Best guess is that about 2% of nVidia based mobos are affected. Updating drivers infrequently fixes a system which exhibits a particular problem, lending credibility to the concept of a hardware problem.

In watching the nVidia mobo forum for a couple of months now I have noted some common themes in the problems/symptoms reported:

Driver installation is often problematical and success sometimes requires re-install of XP (I had to do a clean install of XP to load the 6.53 drivers):
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=5146

One oddity is that a system can change for no apparent reason:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=4978

One user reported that he kept rma'ing the mobo until he got one that worked;
this lends some weight to the hardware flaw in NF* chips:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?show...53&mode=threaded&show=&st=&#entry20653

Here, a driver didn't work properly when installed by the nVidia installer but worked when installed directly:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?show...00&mode=threaded&show=&st=&#entry35200

These examples help to explain why some owners complain bitterly while most can't understand the fuss and may dismiss the complainers as incompetent. There is some unknown factor which causes some situations to fail and seemingly identical situations to work.

I don't have enough experience with forums to determine whether the number of complaints and the issues raised in the nVidia mobo forum are unusual or par for the course but I do find the lack of response to the issues by nVidia surprising.

There are many problems/symptoms reported in the nVidia mobo forum, so concentrate on threads with over 500 views:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s=f3...ead353326152f9b12af806c46&showforum=34

I have attempted to survey and briefly categorize the symptoms reported in the nVidia mobo forum by the particular driver the owner blames; hard to say how good individual owners are at properly determining the underlying cause but in most cases there seems to be a consensus...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
NAM (firewall): BSOD; P2P (bittorrent, emule) crash/ disconnect/slow; can't connect to certain sites (each user reports different problem sites); ftp blocked (sometimes works for a while); IE favicons don't work (recover if NAM disabled); excessive disk access

NIC: BSOD; random disconnects; no connection; slow connection; occasionally have to click a link twice

IDE/ATA: BSOD; disk corruption; NCQ causes corruption; slow access; disk conflict when dvd added; Maxtor drives frequently have trouble in NF3/NF4 systems.

SMB: BSOD

RAID: interrupt flood slows system; setup difficulty on some systems

-----------------------------------------------------------------

nVidia ignores their forums and never responds or participates. Given the number of issues raised in the nVidia mobo forum, I find it surprising that more reviewers of NF3 and NF4 boards don't encounter problems; I am aware of only one such report:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/vnf4ultra/8.html

Follow the link near the bottom of the page. Note that the VNF4 review date is later than the 6.53 driver release date (and the reviewer says the fix is not available to the public) so this problem found in January has not had the fix released in mid June...

------------------


 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
76
Ok, I had issues with it installed with the 1011 final bios. I flashed to the newest 1012-003 bios and it fixed the memory issue but gave me problems with my Plextor SATA DVDRW. I uninstalled the nVidia IDE drivers and then flashed my bios back to the 1011 final and it is working flawlessly now *knocks on wood*.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Using 6.53 vs 6.39 nForce4 drivers completely killed my XP. Only 6.39 would work under any circumstances whatsoever. I tried BIOS 1001, 1008, and the latest beta 1002-003. None would work with 6.53. All would work with 6.39. When 6.53 booted in safe mode I found my video corrupted on the safe mode DOS bootup screen. Man this is so weird. I've had video corruption at random times during bootup. I've never, EVER, had a problem with 2D video corruption when I'm in Windows. Trust me, I'd notice it from ten feet away. But sometimes the bootloader screen is corrupted and just other weird stuff. It all seems intermittent and sporadic. It's like...it's so hard to figure out why its doing it it's not even funny.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
6
81
I've been using the SW IDE drivers since the 2.xx UDP versions were current. I've only had one problem and that entire UDP was recalled by NV. All versions since have been great for me.
 

chynn

Member
Jul 8, 2005
36
0
0
Yes. There are a couple of reasons ... but the prime reason is the Plextor 716SA drive.

Asus won't admit to it, but their BIOSes (and the nVidia RAID driver in it) has problems working with ANY SATA DVD burner!!!

The early Asus BIOSes would not even boot from a SATA DVD drive ... made installing your OS a bit of a problem ... yes???

Second, if you run ANY PCI card (like a SB sound card), it has to go in PCI slot 2. The other two slots share Interrupts with either the SIL3114 or the nVidia chipset RAID drivers. This is also NOT documented by Asus.

See the A8N-SLI forum at www.hardwareanalysis.com for more info about the problems this motherboard can exhibit and, in most cases, how to work around them.

I have been using the 6.39 chipset drivers and the 71.83 display drivers for 6 months. I run RAID0 on my Raptors and to play DVDs on my IDE DVD player. I have had no problems at all with the nVidia IDE and SATA drivers.

And last, for one of the other guys, you have to uninstall the display drivers (all of them) before you attempt to upgrade the nVidia chipset drivers ... if you do not, your OS may get corrupted. Read the installation hints on the nVidia website.

This is what I run:

Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe
Athlon FX55
2x512M Crucial Ballistix
2xeVGA 6800GT (in SLI mode)
1xAudigy4 (PCI slot 2)
2x74G WD Raptor (RAID 0)
1x60G IBM 75GXP backup (miscellaneous) drive (Primary/Primary)
1xPioneer DVR-108 DVD burner (Secondary/Primary)
1xPC Power&Cooling 510W SLI PSU
1xSwiftech Athlon 6400 HSF
1xSamsung Syncmaster 193P LCD monitor
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
I notice that the IDE drivers cause a lot of problems. Is there a specific reason for this?

I have several nVidia systems and all have the IDE driver installed. No problems at all.
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
The nvidia drivers actually helped reduce a problem I was having, which was that every few starts the computer would freeze in the middle of the loading windows screen. Without the nvidia ide drivers, it did it every time instead of once every 3-4 times.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
I notice that the IDE drivers cause a lot of problems. Is there a specific reason for this?
Yes there is! It's to encourage you to use SCSI instead.



*flees*


 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
0
Second, if you run ANY PCI card (like a SB sound card), it has to go in PCI slot 2. The other two slots share Interrupts with either the SIL3114 or the nVidia chipset RAID drivers. This is also NOT documented by Asus.
Look at page 2-15 of your owner's manual. Asus, Abit and Intel are pretty consistent about documenting the chipset IRQ setup.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
FWIW - I've got the Asus A8N-SLI Premium. I'm using the Nvidia IDE drivers and running a RAID 1 w/out any issues. I also have all three of my PCI slots filled w/out any issues either.
 

Slaimus

Senior member
Sep 24, 2000
985
0
76
Coming from a KT133A to a nForce3, the IDE drivers are a huge improvement. It is more of the overhyped and unstable hardware firewall that has been disappointing.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,437
5,418
136
Originally posted by: mechBgon
Originally posted by: Nocturnal
I notice that the IDE drivers cause a lot of problems. Is there a specific reason for this?
Yes there is! It's to encourage you to use SCSI instead.



*flees*

ROFL! Nice one mechBgon!
 
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