Why are you patriotic?

[AreaCode7O7]

I don't feel like there's anything inherently special or unique about our country. I'm patriotic to the US because I feel that it:

• still provides a better standard of living than may country
  provides fairly equal access to education and opportunities
  has a pretty good base of reasonable laws, and a livable level of unreasonable ones
  mostly upholds law and order
  generally adheres pretty well to due process
  gives us the chance to at least select our local and in some cases state government (I'm convinced that we don't have any control over our national government because of the big political parties, media and easily-brainwashed masses, and special interests.)
  while I think that taxes and government waste are too high, it still seems like they're equal or lower than the most rest of the world

I'm sure there are more things that I consider important and that help command my loyalty to the country, but those are the ones that spring to mind. As I review the list it seems like a few of those are getting rather close to the level of intolerability for me, but then there aren't many other better options so I suppose that raises my threshold of tolerance.

If those elements of this country disappeared I don't think I'd be patriotic simply because it's "my" country. I'm more likely to be loyal to my little home area, a county in Northern California, than focus on the country as a whole.

So what about you? Why are you patriotic, loyal to your country?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Though flawed, the US used to set an example of freedom, democracy, progress, and the right to "lfe, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Bush has spent his time in office grinding the constitution and our reputation into the mud, but I have some hope that Obama will restore at least some of our good name.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Though flawed, the US used to set an example of freedom, democracy, progress, and the right to "lfe, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Bush has spent his time in office grinding the constitution and our reputation into the mud, but I have some hope that Obama will restore at least some of our good name.

Here's the answer to your hope.

Does Obama believe in the government or in the people? Which will he empower?

I already know, any speech of his makes it perfectly clear, but I figured I would pose the thought to you since you view it so differently. As for Bush, yeah ? so much for the opposition to government expansion. They turned tail and joined the Democrats.


As for Patriotism. I consider myself a patriot of our country?s founding values, which have long since been abandoned. These are very troubling times, and I will stand by our values, but I will not stand by those who seek to destroy them.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Guess my patriotism came from my old man, a G.I. in WWII. He was pretty happy about the U.S. taking the role it did during "his war". I heard many times, in many different ways about how the country was a force for the oppressed, the enslaved, etc.. Saved the world from evil dictators. Thought I was doing the same kind of thing when I enlisted.

Have felt several times that the country missed the mark of its high standards. Thought GWB went out of his way to trash those standards. But I still have hope.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

I am patriotic because I believe that the United States continues to provide economic and political opportunities and freedoms that, for better or worse, are unavailable in other parts of the world. The US has freedom of religion that at least to Alan Wolfe, is the envy of the world (in contrast to say, France's laicite or the Netherlands). The US also has freedom of speech that would be hard to imagine elsewhere (Germany for example, bans Holocaust denial and Nazi paraphernalia, and it's almost unthinkable that the British would allow the American equivalent of the Pentagon Papers to be published). I'm reminded of the "gates test" that William Bennett posed, that you can tell something about a country by seeing who wants to get in and who wants to get out of a country. Many people wanted to get into the United States, and continued to do so even when we raise our gates to discourage unwanted or illegals trying to enter. Then, as now, the obvious conclusion is that people see something in the US that is worth pursuing there that is worth the journey.

Only in the US can someone make billions of dollars without having his businesses nationalized (See Russia) or muzzled when speaking in public. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, while having comfortable backgrounds, did not succeed in business because of chummy personal or social ties to government individuals (like Carlos Slim in Mexico). They succeeded because they fulfilled a societal need or want, and were shrewd businessmen. And neither had to resort to murder or government intimidation to become wealthy, nor pay government bribes.

I'm not going to argue that the US is perfect or that patriotic means never dissenting. Of course neither is true; the US allowed slavery to exist as an uneasy constitutional compromise and it took a Civil War and Reconstruction before slavery was abolished. But the US has never sought a grand empire to exploit colonies for resources or labor the way other European nations have, and the US has no choice presently but to take a leading role in the international stage.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Though flawed, the US used to set an example of freedom, democracy, progress, and the right to "lfe, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Bush has spent his time in office grinding the constitution and our reputation into the mud, but I have some hope that Obama will restore at least some of our good name.

Here's the answer to your hope.

Does Obama believe in the government or in the people? Which will he empower?

I already know, any speech of his makes it perfectly clear, but I figured I would pose the thought to you since you view it so differently. As for Bush, yeah ? so much for the opposition to government expansion. They turned tail and joined the Democrats.


As for Patriotism. I consider myself a patriot of our country?s founding values, which have long since been abandoned. These are very troubling times, and I will stand by our values, but I will not stand by those who seek to destroy them.

what exactly are these founding principles?

 

[Oceandevi]

I am human. I love my species despite it's shortcomings. The elders of my local landmass do not concern me.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Though flawed, the US used to set an example of freedom, democracy, progress, and the right to "lfe, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Bush has spent his time in office grinding the constitution and our reputation into the mud, but I have some hope that Obama will restore at least some of our good name.

Here's the answer to your hope.

Does Obama believe in the government or in the people? Which will he empower?

I already know, any speech of his makes it perfectly clear, but I figured I would pose the thought to you since you view it so differently. As for Bush, yeah ? so much for the opposition to government expansion. They turned tail and joined the Democrats.


As for Patriotism. I consider myself a patriot of our country?s founding values, which have long since been abandoned. These are very troubling times, and I will stand by our values, but I will not stand by those who seek to destroy them.

what exactly are these founding principles?

Well, one of them was that only white male landowners can vote.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Bush has spent his time in office grinding the constitution and our reputation into the mud

That's still better than letting terrorists grind our physical country into the ground.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
I am human. I love my species despite it's shortcomings. The elders of my local landmass do not concern me.

this works for me.

Nationalism/patriotism is about as stupid as sports team or console fanboyism... but worse because the fanboys have literal armies.

 

[SSSnail]

Because this country has afforded me every opportunity to be where I am today, and I hate to see a great ideology fail.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

Nationalism/patriotism is about as stupid as sports team or console fanboyism... but worse because the fanboys have literal armies.

I guess it depends. Do you define patriotism as supporting the government, right or wrong? Or do you take the more pragmatic notion that at times dissent is patriotic if grounded in national ideals/principles?

Carl Schurz- My Country! When right keep it right; when wrong, set it right!

Theodore Rosevelt- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

What about Otto Otepka? http://www.rense.com/general25/payy.htm Or Daniel Ellsberg? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers
Or to use more recent examples, what about Colleen Rowley ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleen_Rowley

If you believe nationalism/patriotism is equivalent to blind obedience, then where does that leave whistleblowers or Cassandras?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas


Does Obama believe in the government or in the people? Which will he empower?

Most rational people understand that the government IS the people.
Luckily we ditched the Reps, as they have not figured this simple fact out yet, example A being yourself.
If he understands this we are already miles ahead of where we were at.

And what founding principals are you so proud of? Slavery? White landowners only vote? Being a weak third rate broke nation?

We have progressed far and beyond what we were since the founding fathers .

They used some good ideas, but it is not like they invented them. They took the ideas from many other places and times throughout history. The constitution isn't exactly flawless or even coherent/clear in some parts.

It is fine and all if you have respect for arbitrary lines drawn on the surface of the planet, but worshipping some long dead slave-owners as gods is silly.

They were flawed actual men as we all are.

But we can be proud that they had good taste in literature when it came time to found our country.

 

[noni]

The most basic form of patriotism, for me at least, comes from the love for my fellow Americans.
Having said that I'm a little confused that this wasn't mentioned. I think it's human nature to love your family and relatives, other people you come in contact with meaning other Americans because you share a common bond ( history, language, culture...).
I think this should be the core of every patriot because supporting the government and ideologies first
could result in "unhealthy patriotism" or nationalism.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: noni
The most basic form of patriotism, for me at least, comes from the love for my fellow Americans.
Having said that I'm a little confused that this wasn't mentioned. I think it's human nature to love your family and relatives, other people you come in contact with meaning other Americans because you share a common bond ( history, language, culture...).
I think this should be the core of every patriot because supporting the government and ideologies first
could result in "unhealthy patriotism" or nationalism.

Well put neighbor :thumbsup:

 

[cyclohexane]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
I am human. I love my species despite it's shortcomings. The elders of my local landmass do not concern me.

well said.

 

[palehorse]

I never understood why so many people, including some here, think it's wrong to simply love one's country for the sake of loving one's country. Doing so does not inherently mean that you believe your country is always right. Nor does it mean that one must forsake all other countries to love his own. It simply means that you have a very strong attachment to your own country's land, people, and history.

It's my home. I love my home. I will fight to the death to defend my home against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

 

[dlx22]

Originally posted by: palehorse
I never understood why so many people, including some here, think it's wrong to simply love one's country for the sake of loving one's country. Doing so does not inherently mean that you believe your country is always right. It simply means that you have a very strong attachment to the country's land, people, and history.

It's my home. I love my home. I will fight to the death to defend my home against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

:beer:

 

[miketheidiot]

because it's my home, inspite of its flaws, and i wish for the best for my fellow citizens, as well as the rest of the world.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
because it's my home, inspite of its flaws, and i wish for the best for my fellow citizens, as well as the rest of the world.

There are such different takes on patriotism. The 1960's spawned a new kind of patriotism in America with visions of universal social justice. This is far more visionary than the narrow sort that only involves supporting the troops and endorsing leaders.

 

[deathstorm78]

I believe in the ideals of our Constitution, but most importantly the freedoms and liberties afforded by it.

In December of 1998 I decided to join the Marines at age 20. I had a good government job and a promising career, but left to serve my country. I remember there being rumors of war at the time and my mother crying about my decision(no I didn't live with my parents at this time). I have 2 brother and 3 sisters and some of them had their children already.

I took a good look at our country and I was proud of all the freedoms and liberties we had and that most people take for granted. More importantly, I was proud of the men and women before me who served and died to preserve those same ideals that I cherised and enjoyed every day.

I wanted to make sure that my neices and nephews would be able to enjoy the same one day too, not to mention the American generations to come. I also wanted to protect those in need of protection. Those who could not or would not do the same for themselves. Yep, even those that hate America but still reside here. Though it makes me madder than a hornet sometimes! But even for those who aren't Americans but need or want freedom and liberty from oppression.

 

[piasabird]

I think that perhaps that people do not understand that the generations in the United States that came before us died so that we could enjoy the rights of freedom that we cherish and hold so dear. Since the civil war we have not had to fight a war on our own soil except for maybe when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. We have so much and enjoy so much freedom that we may have forgotten the price we paid for it. We had a bitter fight during WWII, but it was for the most part not on US Soil. Our cities were not destroyed, and we kept our infrastructure intact.

As for the Military, when we have given our troops the support they need, our colors never run.

Through the years the United States of America has defended freedom. This is something worth standing up for.

I served for about 10 years in the Military, and I had the luxury of visiting both Europe and Asia. I Say we have done a bit better in the USA.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I think that perhaps that people do not understand that the generations in the United States that came before us died so that we could enjoy the rights of freedom that we cherish and hold so dear. Since the civil war we have not had to fight a war on our own soil except for maybe when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. We have so much and enjoy so much freedom that we may have forgotten the price we paid for it. We had a bitter fight during WWII, but it was for the most part not on US Soil. Our cities were not destroyed, and we kept our infrastructure intact.

As for the Military, when we have given our troops the support they need, our colors never run.

Through the years the United States of America has defended freedom. This is something worth standing up for.

I served for about 10 years in the Military, and I had the luxury of visiting both Europe and Asia. I Say we have done a bit better in the USA.

Thank you for your service.

 

[SP33Demon]

Because we're the best democracy in the world and I love living here. There is no right or wrong answer to this question unless you hate America like Dave.

 

[Elias824]

only in america can a poor black boy, become a rich white man.