Why Biden is pulling the US -- and NATO -- out of Afghanistan

[Jaskalas]

It appears that the talking points being floated around are centered around

July 8th, President Biden adamantly painted a very different picture than reality.
He lied to us, or the Pentagon lied to him.

It's the fundamental disconnect, of selling this fantasy of "Taliban don't own Afghanistan" that this administration should catch flak on. I wouldn't have had a problem if he told us the country was falling and we needed to GTFO. Take the loss and call it a loss, don't pretend it is a win - do not call it one. Do not act like Trump. Give us the truth and deal with reality.

We don't need another admin dealing in fantasy land.

 

[HomerJS]

July 8th, President Biden adamantly painted a very different picture than reality.
He lied to us, or the Pentagon lied to him.

It's the fundamental disconnect, of selling this fantasy of "Taliban don't own Afghanistan" that this administration should catch flak on. I wouldn't have had a problem if he told us the country was falling and we needed to GTFO. Take the loss and call it a loss, don't pretend it is a win - do not call it one. Do not act like Trump. Give us the truth and deal with reality.

We don't need another admin dealing in fantasy land.

I think they knew this would happen. What the Pentagon won't admit they had no idea it would be this fast. State Dept ducked all the questions "were you surprised the Taliban took over this quickly?".

Not like Afghanistan hasn't been the burial ground of many a country.

 

[K1052]

July 8th, President Biden adamantly painted a very different picture than reality.
He lied to us, or the Pentagon lied to him.

It's the fundamental disconnect, of selling this fantasy of "Taliban don't own Afghanistan" that this administration should catch flak on. I wouldn't have had a problem if he told us the country was falling and we needed to GTFO. Take the loss and call it a loss, don't pretend it is a win - do not call it one. Do not act like Trump. Give us the truth and deal with reality.

We don't need another admin dealing in fantasy land.

Maybe lying isn't the right word. Excessive optimism and humongous error instead.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1426873318368497666

 

[Ajay]

What was screwed up? Are you saying the administration screwed up for not planning on the Afghan army collapsing?

Yes. Some sample insights:

 

[Ajay]

Maybe lying isn't the right word. Excessive optimism and humongous error instead.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1426873318368497666

We need an smh 'like' icon, because I’m just shaking me head. I would add dysfunctional to your list.

 

[pauldun170]

Maybe lying isn't the right word. Excessive optimism and humongous error instead.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1426873318368497666

America is comically bad at assessing the capability of countries with tribal cultures.

 

[sandorski]

Wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of the Afghan Military is Taliban, at this point. They are more sophisticated and patient than expected. Over estimating one's Superiority seems to be an issue amongst Afghan Invaders.

 

[pauldun170]

Wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of the Afghan Military is Taliban, at this point. They are more sophisticated and patient than expected. Over estimating one's Superiority seems to be an issue amongst Afghan Invaders.

Considering Taliban are afghans I'm not sure being patient was the hardest thing to do.
At least for the ones with a day jobs...

Especially the ones that had day jobs within the Afghan military.

 

[pauldun170]

Yes. Some sample insights:

All due respect,
I don't watch talking heads on news channels.
Doesn't matter if it's cnn or foxnews or that weird shit that accountant rapist idiot likes to post.


I would prefer to hear your words.

 

[Stokely]

So when Trump says he's going to "end endless wars" like Afghanistan, it's a good thing. When we actually go to do it, because a Democrat is in office it's a catastrophe.


If the rest of the world wants to be the world's policeman/country builder, the UN can come in and take over. America can help in *their* effort.

Face it, some countries just want to be a theocracy ruled by religious nutters (including about half of America but that's another discussion)

 

[Leeea]

What we spent building in Afghanistan, for 20 years, ended up being nothing more then a house of cards.

We could spend another 20 years, and achieve the same result.

 

[UNCjigga]

Maybe lying isn't the right word. Excessive optimism and humongous error instead.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1426873318368497666

All the same, the White House better be in damage control mode right now. They can’t just paint this as a failure stretching back to the Trump, Obama and Bush administrations. They own at least part of the faulty intelligence and lack of planning to secure the embassy and allied Afghans.

The right wing talking points haven’t solidified yet, but you can bet your ass they’ll start drawing parallels between Biden and Carter/Iran going into midterms and 2024. This will be Benghazi all over again. At the very least, GQP can effectively sell the idea that Biden is completely disconnected from the defense of our nation (at least to the brainwashed.)

 

[emperus]

Trump put this in motion by pulling out all the majority of troops. I believe Biden took over with 2500 troops remaining. Biden was in a no win situation. There was no way the US could have held a restarted Taliban insurgency with only the 2500 troops. So, Biden has to either add more Troops to keep the 2500 safe or pull them all out so there is no chance of being drawn into a larger war. No easy decisions.

But facts don't matter when the GOP are craven. They do a real disservice to our country.

 

[Artorias]

I was just reading an article yesterday how they could loose Kabul in 30-90 days.

Today it looks like they'll have everything wrapped up before your Monday morning cup of coffee.

Afghanistan is no longer a country in my opinion, shouldn't be on any world maps, just rename it to some dessert. If any of the middle eastern counties want to annex and piece it up let them have it.

 

[HomerJS]

Large part of the problem. During negotiations for us leaving we iced out the Afghan government. Watch this interview

 

[K1052]

All the same, the White House better be in damage control mode right now. They can’t just paint this as a failure stretching back to the Trump, Obama and Bush administrations. They own at least part of the faulty intelligence and lack of planning to secure the embassy and allied Afghans.

The right wing talking points haven’t solidified yet, but you can bet your ass they’ll start drawing parallels between Biden and Carter/Iran going into midterms and 2024. This will be Benghazi all over again. At the very least, GQP can effectively sell the idea that Biden is completely disconnected from the defense of our nation (at least to the brainwashed.)

The public overwhelmingly thinks that the US should be out of Afghanistan. The former hawks on the left view this outcome as basically inevitable. The hawks on the right are, again, in conflict with the head of their party who proudly says he would have done this sooner. I don't think there is a lot of political hay to be made appeasing the neocons who sunk us into this mess and the Obama era officials who spent years of their lives on it less unhappy with the only like outcome finally happening. They're going to be all over the news though.

 

[fskimospy]

Trump put this in motion by pulling out all the majority of troops. I believe Biden took over with 2500 troops remaining. Biden was in a no win situation. There was no way the US could have held a restarted Taliban insurgency with only the 2500 troops. So, Biden has to either add more Troops to keep the 2500 safe or pull them all out so there is no chance of being drawn into a larger war. No easy decisions.

But facts don't matter when the GOP are craven. They do a real disservice to our country.

He had two choices, he could complete the pullout or he could escalate and increase US military presence there again. I think this is one of the few things Trump was right on - if we made no progress after two decades why on earth do we think we are going to make progress now?

 

[skyking]

Look back on Iran for more confirmation. We propped up the Shah and he bent the country to fit his western ideals. Once deposed Iran has made the same kind of fundamental changes and these are long lasting changes.
To think that Afghanistan would be different is sheer ignorance.

 

[UNCjigga]

The public overwhelmingly thinks that the US should be out of Afghanistan. The former hawks on the left view this outcome as basically inevitable. The hawks on the right are, again, in conflict with the head of their party who proudly says he would have done this sooner. I don't think there is a lot of political hay to be made appeasing the neocons who sunk us into this mess and the Obama era officials who spent years of their lives on it less unhappy with the only like outcome finally happening. They're going to be all over the news though.

I’m not talking about the decision to leave Afghanistan or even the Biden timetable for withdrawal. They know leaving Afghanistan is popular with both sides of the aisle.

They will attack him for intelligence failures, lack of foresight, and scrambling to send 3000 troops at the last minute to evacuate the embassy barely in the nick of time. Kabul will fall this week. The Afghan President has left the country. Meanwhile, American humvees, helicopters and munitions are in Taliban hands.

Lindsay Graham already hinted that they will blame Biden for creating conditions that helped accelerate the Taliban’s rise to power, allowing weapons to fall into hands of terrorists and making the entire region unsafe for years to come. They will say America is less safe under Biden’s watch. Remember, there is no hypocrisy too great for these bad faith statesmen.

 

[K1052]

He had two choices, he could complete the pullout or he could escalate and increase US military presence there again. I think this is one of the few things Trump was right on - if we made no progress after two decades why on earth do we think we are going to make progress now?

Once in a while Trump's instincts are correct. Not often but it happens. Broken clocks and such.

Biden had a front row seat for eight years where he grew to distrust what the military was telling him about the war and the prospects for an Afghan state. He might not like how rapidly it slid into his worst expectations but his opinion is unshakable. Somebody had to rip the band aid and we finally found a guy with the will to do it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/18/biden-afghanistan-military-power/

 

[K1052]

I’m not talking about the decision to leave Afghanistan or even the Biden timetable for withdrawal. They know leaving Afghanistan is popular with both sides of the aisle.

They will attack him for intelligence failures, lack of foresight, and scrambling to send 3000 troops at the last minute to evacuate the embassy barely in the nick of time. Kabul will fall this week. The Afghan President has left the country. Meanwhile, American humvees, helicopters and munitions are in Taliban hands.

Lindsay Graham already hinted that they will blame Biden for creating conditions that helped accelerate the Taliban’s rise to power, allowing weapons to fall into hands of terrorists and making the entire region unsafe for years to come. They will say America is less safe under Biden’s watch. Remember, there is no hypocrisy too great for these bad faith statesmen.

I'm just very skeptical it will matter outside certain circles in DC. If Lindsay wants to tour the country bemoaning that Biden fulfilled a Trump promise then he's welcome to give that a go.

 

[JEDI]

Let see if we finally leave. I'm sure the Republicans are prepping all of their BS talking points and every dumbass is going to pull the "Politicians kept us from WINNING!!! Derpa vietnam derpa derpa"

less than a month after Biden withdraws most troops from Afghanistan, the Taliban is on the verge of taking over.
All but the capital city of Kabul is under Taliban control and it looks like they'll take it soon, VERY soon. (The Afgan Preisdent fled the capital today.)

WTF only a month to fall?!
how does the entire country fall in less than a month to a ragtag bunch of extremists?
what went wrong with the Afgan army that the US was training for the past 20years?!?!
WTF?!?!

 

[amenx]

Its the lay of the country which makes it almost impossible for any country with a conventional military to rule. The geography is too mountainous for heavy military equipment to be effective. The Russians (Soviets) found that out the hard way and now the U.S. Any rebel forces in numbers (Taliban) who know the lay of the land will prevail over time and just bleed out any conventional forces out of resources trying to deal with them incl the Afghan military.

 

[pauldun170]

less than a month after Biden withdraws most troops from Afghanistan, the Taliban is on the verge of taking over.
All but the capital city of Kabul is under Taliban control and it looks like they'll take it soon, VERY soon. (The Afgan Preisdent fled the capital today.)

WTF only a month to fall?!
how does the entire country fall in less than a month to a ragtag bunch of extremists?
what went wrong with the Afgan army that the US was training for the past 20years?!?!
WTF?!?!

I'm the US, when you are going through basic you don't have the threat of assholes from Kansas coming to asssisinate your entire family.

When you are a police officer, you don't really worry about coming home to your children's heads on spikes.

When you took a job as a translator because a Guy from Texas told you too in order for you to pass Intel or else face death...

When you trained with top pilots from a global superpower and your aircraft are grounded because your pilot and maintainers were murdered last night....

It's pretty easy to understand when the writing is on the wall.

 

[pauldun170]

Bilmes calculates the U.S. will spend more than $2 trillion just caring for and supporting Afghanistan and Iraq veterans as they age, with costs peaking 30 years to 40 years from now.

That’s on top of $1 trillion in Pentagon and State Department costs in Afghanistan since 2001. Because the U.S. borrowed rather than raised taxes to pay for the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, interest payments are estimated to cost succeeding generations of Americans trillions of dollars more still.

Longest war: Were America's decades in Afghanistan worth it?

Here's what 19-year-old Lance Cpl. William Bee felt flying into southern Afghanistan on Christmas Day 2001: purely lucky. The U.S. was hitting back at the al-Qaida plotters who had brought down the World Trade Center, and Bee found himself among the first Marines on the ground.

apnews.com

Reminds me of




CNN Politics

@CNNPolitics
·
Aug 8, 2018

"We only have empty pockets when it comes to the morally right things to do, but when it comes to tax cuts for billionaires and when it comes to unlimited war we seem to be able to invent that money very easily," Democrat Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says. https://cnn.it/2vpyVNl