Why Biden is pulling the US -- and NATO -- out of Afghanistan

[Stokely]

Afghanistan would seem to be a place where a strong UN could intervene. It's in the interest of the rest of the world that nutters like the Taliban that want things to go back to the 12th century don't come into power, anywhere. There are still plenty of old nukes floating about, and of course you don't need nukes to cause mayhem.

It's a shit sandwich. No one country can stay there forever; you leave, and the gains they've made will evaporate. No amount of military action is ever going to be a permanent solution. The afghans need a strong educated society which takes time (if it can ever happen). The enemy of religious nutters is education (just look at certain US states...) The former ambassador was on NPR this morning and said that educated people are being assassinated there left and right. He equated it to Rwanda--we got there too late, and he said now that we left it's going to be similar.

One reason the UN is weak is that actions by the US and China and Russia made it that way. The security council just does what it wants. So what should be the situation for a world entity to step in just becomes the Taliban filling the void. I don't know, maybe the rest of the world has no interest in it either.

 

[pauldun170]

Hot topic. Iran is the reason ISIS was stopped from taking over Iraq.

Certainly not the Iraqi military we formed, who under-manned Mosul and abandoned it at the approach of the first pickup truck.

Between Afghanistan and Iraq. It must be argued that the United States does not understand armed conflict. For the forces we build are horrifically crushed. There must be an underlying reason for that failure. Could it be we handicap them from the onset? We pretend they have our strength to uphold our values, as opposed to allowing them the freedom to handle their situation in a manner befitting their limited resources?

We build foreign armies that fail.

There is a misunderstanding here
Armies are for defending countries against armies of foreign nations.

What you are thinking about are Security forces.
2 very different things.
You only have to look at the US's "security forces" to understand why we might not be the best country to train other countries.

 

[cytg111]

The taliban is funded by the ISI .

I remember something along that allegation and how its weaved into pakis government .. But doesnt that just mean that the true enemy is that specific fabric of Pakistani government? Then ffs GO there. Begin cutting fingers off.

 

[rommelrommel]

The majority of the Afghan army just wanted a job, same as the remade Iraqi army. Armies like that don’t fight well unless there is massive punishment on the line (like we’ll kill you and your family for cowardice.) Even then they usually aren’t too skilled.

The Afghan army has some units that fight for their country with vigour but they’re simply far too few in number.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Considering barely anyone in Afghanistan is vaccinated, I would assume it is currently a covid nightmare on top of everything else.

Also, the Taliban has already begun banning vaccines.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1426190088220807172

 

[woolfe9998]

Ah, I see American conservatives are in good company with their opposition to vaccines.

 

[brycejones]

Ah, I see American conservatives are in good company with their opposition to vaccines.

Religious conservatives are all birds of a feather regardless of the religion they believe in.

 

[woolfe9998]

Religious conservatives are all birds of a feather regardless of the religion they believe in.

Yes, as in, they all want to take us back to an earlier century because modernity is the slow death knell of religion. Or at least, that is what they fear.

The internet they cannot do without, however. Or else how would they spread their propaganda.

 

[UNCjigga]

I remember something along that allegation and how its weaved into pakis government .. But doesnt that just mean that the true enemy is that specific fabric of Pakistani government? Then ffs GO there. Begin cutting fingers off.

70 years of US-Pakistani relations (developed in response to India joining the Non Aligned Movement while procuring weapons from USSR) are the reason why the boldest move we’ve ever made against them was a small incursion into Abbottabad (and at the time that incursion was a Big Effing Deal with major implications for our continued relationship.)

Gee, I wonder why India was so wary of aligning with an emerging Anglo-Saxon superpower so soon after ending colonial rule by another Anglo-Saxon superpower.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

For this place, Myanmar, Belarus and maybe a couple of others, I propose total and complete isolation, diplomatically and economically. Nothing and no one in or out. Cut off all communications, satellite, cellular, landline. No fuel, no food, no supplies of any kind, barricade all roads. Expel all diplomats, close all embassies.

Yes it would be tough to do given some of the borders, but a determined UN could do it.

 

[Ajay]

Yes it would be tough to do given some of the borders, but a determined UN could do it.

Well, I don't know what 'UN' you are thinking of, but it can't be the United Nations organization that I'm thinking of. Determination is not their strong suit, for fairly obvious reasons.

 

[emperus]

The speed of the Talibans takeover leads me to believe Biden made a good decision. We have ben there for 20 years and if a country can't fight for themselves, why are we there fighting for them?

 

[paperfist]

The speed of the Talibans takeover leads me to believe Biden made a good decision. We have ben there for 20 years and if a country can't fight for themselves, why are we there fighting for them?

What’s that say about our military if after 20 years of training a rag tag ‘army’ can defeat them quicker than a Mike Tyson fight?

 

[Ajay]

The speed of the Talibans takeover leads me to believe Biden made a good decision. We have ben there for 20 years and if a country can't fight for themselves, why are we there fighting for them?

Well, former Adm. James Stavridis put it succinctly, we can't give the leadership nor the will to fight to fight to another army.

 

[emperus]

What’s that say about our military if after 20 years of training a rag tag ‘army’ can defeat them quicker than a Mike Tyson fight?

Fighting a war is believing what your fighting for is worthy of fighting for and maybe dying for. You can't train that.

 

[pauldun170]

For this place, Myanmar, Belarus and maybe a couple of others, I propose total and complete isolation, diplomatically and economically. Nothing and no one in or out. Cut off all communications, satellite, cellular, landline. No fuel, no food, no supplies of any kind, barricade all roads. Expel all diplomats, close all embassies.

Yes it would be tough to do given some of the borders, but a determined UN could do it.

So if I understand your correctly, you want to punish everyone living in those countries and insure that the entire population suffers.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

So if I understand your correctly, you want to punish everyone living in those countries and insure that the entire population suffers.

I want to hasten the downfall of tyranny by any means necessary.

 

[pauldun170]

The speed of the Talibans takeover leads me to believe Biden made a good decision. We have ben there for 20 years and if a country can't fight for themselves, why are we there fighting for them?

You are not seeing if a country can "fight for itself"
Call it what it is, a civil war.
Both sides are Afghans "Fighting for Afghanistan".

We just so happen to think one side is a bag of dicks (who won't bend the knee to our corporations)

 

[IronWing]

why are we there fighting for them?

Mission creep, very lucrative mission creep. We didn't go to Afghanistan to defeat the Taliban. We went there to kill Al Qaeda. Then the Bushies f'ed that up and decided there was money to be made milking the taxpayers for a forever war. It is to Obama's shame that he didn't pull US troops out of Afghanistan after Bin Laden was killed.

 

[pauldun170]

I want to hasten the downfall of tyranny by any means necessary.

The problem is that when you implement the policy you propose, you become the tyranny.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Mission creep, very lucrative mission creep. We didn't go to Afghanistan to defeat the Taliban.

Weren't they our allies in the 80s?

 

[Torn Mind]

This was always going to happen. It just took us a couple $T to figure that out. Funny/not funny quote from the article
Uh, did someone actually believe that the Taliban was going to act in good faith??? At least this stupidity is coming to an end.

I highly doubt any politician is that naïve in believing people always act in good faith, especially those with experience as a lawyer, which is exactly the occupation Biden worked in before politics. That's for the populace to suck up as an excuse. Biden worked as lawyer and supplemented income managing properties. Such endeavors is more than likely to come across at least a few bad apples who do not act in good faith and building in protections against such people.

 

[cytg111]

70 years of US-Pakistani relations (developed in response to India joining the Non Aligned Movement while procuring weapons from USSR) are the reason why the boldest move we’ve ever made against them was a small incursion into Abbottabad (and at the time that incursion was a Big Effing Deal with major implications for our continued relationship.)

Gee, I wonder why India was so wary of aligning with an emerging Anglo-Saxon superpower so soon after ending colonial rule by another Anglo-Saxon superpower.

If your "partner/ally/70 years of US-Pakistani relations" situation is that said partner is waging a proxy war against you with no less friggin Talibans, that will commit atrocities towards the afghan people by ANY standard.
I guess maybe its a relation ship that should be reconsidered. You pro acid'ing you girls in the face cause they attended school? You die. There shouldnt really be any kind of protection by any government anywhere from stuff like that.
Hell pull a Putin and novichok the bastards covertly. Everyone will know whats up, but cant prove it.

 

[Amol S.]

Ah, I see American conservatives are in good company with their opposition to vaccines.

So basically PB could become affiliated with Taliban??? That's not good for America. *worried*

 

[pauldun170]

Weren't they our allies in the 80s?

No

Mujahideen | Afghanistan, History, Meaning, & Significance

Mujahideen, members of a number of guerrilla groups during the Afghan War (1978–92) that opposed the invading Soviet forces and eventually toppled the Afghan communist government. Rival factions thereafter fell out among themselves, precipitating the rise of one faction, the Taliban.

www.britannica.com

Some members of the Taliban, like members of other factions\groups, were fighting against the Soviets. All those groups worked together for a common purpose.
The United States was one of many arms suppliers to the mujahideem. They were not our Allies. We were simply a means to an end (both ways).
Once again, mujahideen comprised of Afghans from many factions all fighting against the Soviets.
Today, members of the Taliban could be fighting afghans that fought beside them back in the Mujahideem days before the Taliban ever existed.

The Taliban movement is a Saudi created shitstorm

The Taliban, or "students" in the Pashto language, emerged in the early 1990s in northern Pakistan following the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan. It is believed that the predominantly Pashtun movement first appeared in religious seminaries - mostly paid for by money from Saudi Arabia - which preached a hardline form of Sunni Islam.

Who are the Taliban?

The hardline Islamist group retook control of Afghanistan as foreign forces pulled out in 2021.

www.bbc.com