Why can't computer manufacturers agree on a standard on what key to press for setup?

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,904
12,374
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www.anyf.ca
Before it used to be Delete. Now it seems every computer is different, and usually the screen that tells that flashes too fast or the monitor did not initialize yet so you never get to see it. Why can't they just stick to delete so you don't have to always google it?

/rant of the day
 

amicold

Platinum Member
Feb 7, 2005
2,656
1
81
Before it used to be Delete. Now it seems every computer is different, and usually the screen that tells that flashes too fast or the monitor did not initialize yet so you never get to see it. Why can't they just stick to delete so you don't have to always google it?

/rant of the day

For BIOS? Most SSD systems can boot in the blink of an eye, when you get into the menu set the delay to a few seconds.
 

xgsound

Golden Member
Jan 22, 2002
1,374
8
81
I have heard that with Win10 fast boot you can't get to bios unless it boots to windows to select that option.
Sarc/on
How could that be a problem? Is it really true?

Jim
Sarc/off
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,856
1,048
126
Have your hands ready for both f1 and delete. That's it.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Pretty sure that the history of how IBM's BIOS was legally cloned has something to do with it. The different BIOSes needed to be the same in the ways that were important and differentiate in other ways to show that they weren't copies.

Remember: IBM used off-the-shelf components for their first PC but used a proprietary BIOS to tie it all together. Compaq had to reverse-engineer it for their portable PC to be 100% compatible, but lawyers advised that anyone who saw the contents of the original BIOS could not be involved in writing the clone's code so that no copyright infringement could be inferred.

To accomplish this they set up two teams with legal monitors ensuring their isolation. One team reverse-engineered IBM's BIOS to determine everything that a replacement had to do to be compatible and how. Only the raw specs were allowed to be shared with the next team. Essentially they were working from a list of specifications with no access to the original code. Any resulting similarities were purely and demonstrably coincidental so they couldn't be sued by IBM. It opened the floodgates for IBM PC clones (Wintel today)! See? Profit-driven corporations can be good for us!
 
Last edited:

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,688
618
136
Pretty sure that the history of how IBM's BIOS was legally cloned has something to do with it.

The different BIOS makers needed to be the same in the ways that were important and differentiate in other ways.

Remember: IBM used off-the-shelf components for their first PC but used a proprietary BIOS to tie it all together. Compaq had to reverse-engineer it for their portable PC but legally anyone who saw the original code could not be involved in writing the clone's code so that no copyright infringement could be inferred.

They set up two teams isolated from each other with legal monitors ensuring their isolation. One team reverse-engineered IBM's BIOS and to determine everything that a replacement had to do to be compatible and how. Only that information was allowed to be shared with the next team so that they were working from a list of specifications with no access to the original code. Any resulting similarities were purely and demonstrably coincidental so they couldn't be sued by IBM. It opened the floodgates! See? Profit-driven corporations can be good for us!

Your post is very educational, I like it...



My BIOS setup is f10, and I have to keep jamming as soon as I turn it on or I'll miss it.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
Have your hands ready for both f1 and delete. That's it.

...and F2
...and ESC
...and CTRL-ESC
...and F12
...and- you get the picture.

On a PC I'm unfamiliar with I typically cycle through CTRL-ESC, ESC, DEL, F1, F2 while keeping my eyes open for messages stating something else. Very rarely do I have to reboot and try something else.
 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
...and F2
...and ESC
...and CTRL-ESC
...and F12
...and- you get the picture.

On a PC I'm unfamiliar with I typically cycle through CTRL-ESC, ESC, DEL, F1, F2 while keeping my eyes open for messages stating something else. Very rarely do I have to reboot and try something else.
I usually alternate del f1 del f1 repeat until find out it is f12 reach for and smack that button, of course missing the window so I have to reboot.
 

MarkLuvsCS

Senior member
Jun 13, 2004
740
0
76
You can press the Pause/Break key during initial boot up to give it time to see what the bios is doing. Then just press enter to continue.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
You can press the Pause/Break key during initial boot up to give it time to see what the bios is doing. Then just press enter to continue.

Yes, but what usually happens when you rely on that alone is you pause it on a useless screen and waste some of your window. I usually hit Pause if something I pressed changes something the screen (dismisses a full-screen logo, adds a message of text over the logo screen, etc). It lets me see what it is doing or see what it suggests doing. ESC or TAB may clear the full-screen logo and reveal something underneath like "F10 = Restore F11 - CMOS Setup."
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,425
8,388
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one of my computers has several different keys that work. i think F12 and delete are the most common.
 

TheGardener

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2014
1,945
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esc on my laptop. And it is located in the first position on the keyboard which is easy to remember.
 

MustISO

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,928
12
81
While they're at it, how about all case manufacturers and motherboard makers come up with a good way to plug in front panel connections, a single universal plug like a USB motherboard connection. That's still my least favorite part of building a PC.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
While they're at it, how about all case manufacturers and motherboard makers come up with a good way to plug in front panel connections, a single universal plug like a USB motherboard connection. That's still my least favorite part of building a PC.

There was a time when USB front panel weren't standard and you had to arrange each individual pin.

I'm pretty sure there is a standard for this on PCs with HD Audio but case makers continue breaking them out for AC97/MPC certification or some legacy crap. Asus had a cool little block they included with enthusiast boards which had clear labeling for pin headers on the back for you to connect your case wiring. You could just plug/unplug their block once you had it all connected right the first time. Unfortunately, they patented it and only include it with certain enthusiast boards. You could always make your own minus the labels with some simple pins and headers.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,904
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www.anyf.ca
I have heard that with Win10 fast boot you can't get to bios unless it boots to windows to select that option.
Sarc/on
How could that be a problem? Is it really true?

Jim
Sarc/off

I've actually witnessed this with windows 8. No idea how that even works, how does the OS have control of the computer before it even posts? I've had to actually unplug the hard drive to get into the bios because of that. Even spamming the key was not fast enough, I think it actually somehow bypasses that process.

On the other side of the spectrum, there's UEFI bioses, freaking slow as hell to post. My computer at home takes about a minute to post. 5 seconds to actually boot once it finally gets to that point.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,904
12,374
126
www.anyf.ca
While they're at it, how about all case manufacturers and motherboard makers come up with a good way to plug in front panel connections, a single universal plug like a USB motherboard connection. That's still my least favorite part of building a PC.

I hate dealing with that too. I've gotten better at it and usually get it first try, but I really do think they should have a standard connector for that. I mean, I like the idea that it's simple enough that it could be used for all sorts of custom applications and I'd hate to see that change, but just make the pin orders the same across the board so that cases can just come with a common connector.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
I think my current is DEL, last one was F12 or was it F8... Fuq it, that's what the restart button at the log-on page is for.
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
4,307
450
126
On the other side of the spectrum, there's UEFI bioses, freaking slow as hell to post. My computer at home takes about a minute to post. 5 seconds to actually boot once it finally gets to that point.

There's something wrong with your computer if it's taking that long.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,904
12,374
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There's something wrong with your computer if it's taking that long.

That has been my experience with all UEFI motherboards. It's something I always overlook when I do a build too. Next workstation I build is probably going to be Supermicro just so I can get a normal bios and faster overall startup time. I think the problem is that UEFI is basically designed for Windows so it will have optimizations that are proprietary, so if you have another OS it's slow as hell. That's just my guess at least.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,167
15,775
126
That has been my experience with all UEFI motherboards. It's something I always overlook when I do a build too. Next workstation I build is probably going to be Supermicro just so I can get a normal bios and faster overall startup time. I think the problem is that UEFI is basically designed for Windows so it will have optimizations that are proprietary, so if you have another OS it's slow as hell. That's just my guess at least.

Just dont reboot unless mandatory.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
166
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
My best guess: because someone patented stupid shit. "Oh no, if we want to use the Del key for this, we'll have to pay patent troll company X 1 million dollars. Let's use F5 instead. Oh damn. Patent Troll Company Y... 1 million dollars. Well, how about ctrl shift Del F7? Woohooo! No one patented that. Hey, let's patent it and sell it to one of the patent trolls.
 
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