Why can't I connect to internet without my router?

[bovinda]

In attempting to understand why I couldn't play a multiplayer game, I tried pluging my DSL modem directly into my computer and found it only registered as "Limited or No Connectivity." It works fine when I reinsert the router.

Am I overlooking something completely obvious? Why would the computer be able to access the internet with the router, but not without it?

I'm using Windows XP w/ SP2, with Norton IS 2006 for software firewall. The router is a Netgear WGT624 if it matters.

Any suggestions--greatly appreciated!

 

[xtknight]

Did you set your network interface to use the DHCP protocol? ("Automatic IP")

 

[bovinda]

Whoa. I think you just went over my head. I don't remember setting anything...how would I check?

Edit: and if it was set to that, would that be the problem? How might I undo that?

 

[xtknight]

I haven't used a DSL modem but I'm going based off my experiences with a cable modem. I assume the situation is similar between the two. What you need to do is to edit the properties of your "network connection"'s TCP/IP service, and tell it to "automatically retrieve the IP" (paraphrased). (Network Connections is under Control Panel.) Choose "automatic" on both settings. This will tell it to use the DHCP dynamic IP protocol which should get your IP for you and enable Internet connectivity.

 

[boomerang]

Your DSL connection requires you to log in using a username (usually your email address) and a password.

Your router has been providing that function for you. Now, with the router out of the picture, either your modem or your computer must perform the login. Neither is, which is why you can't connect.

xtknight is correct in that your router had also been providing DHCP services for you. It had been assigning your computer a private IP address. An address that is not available over the internet, only on your network, which consisted of your router and your computer.

Your modem may be set up in bridge mode. In order to use it to connect to the 'net, you will need to access it's setup screens and configure it to login for you. It would be easier to configure a PPPoE connection with XP and allow it to login for you. Click on Start > Help and Support and in the box, type "PPPoE" and there will be a link for a step by step to set up your connection.

However, your problem with multi-player gaming is most likely due to your router and/or your software firewall. You have a hardware firewall (your router), a software firewall (Norton), and perhaps the built-in firewall in XP (Norton should have turned this off for you).

You may need to open a port in your router. Your router may have an option for "Port Triggering" that will allow you to do what you want to do, but will have to be enabled.

Find out what port or ports your game needs opened.

Edit: Changed Port Translation to Port Triggering. Your router does support it by the way.

 

[bovinda]

Hi Boomerang,

So I'd forwarded the port (2056) for the game (Civilization IV) using the exact page you linked to (thank you, BTW). It worked for us once. Then a couple hours later when we tried again, we could not connect--it kept saying "connection attempt timed out." I am trying to host the game.

So I was thinking we should try to do it without the router (I just unplugged it and plugged the DSL modem directly into my computer, like I used to before I had the router). That's when I found it couldn't connect to the internet at all.

Now, I never used to put in a password to access the internet when the modem plugged directly into the computer, and I didn't have to set it to do that when I first installed the router. Also, the TCP/IP thing under properties is already set to obtain both the IP address and DNS server automatically (whatever that means).

I don't think I ever had to do a PPPoE connection before, so I'm just hesitant to try that in case it messes up settings. Will I be able to use the router again easily after trying the PPPoE thing? I just want to make sure I can undo any damage I might cause.

 

[boomerang]

OK, it sounds as if your modem will initiate the PPPoE connection, but it is happy when the router does it also. This is how the DSL modem works at my wife's office too. I'm near certain when you first installed the router, that you had to enter the username and password information at that time.

I think if you had the power removed from the modem and the computer turned off, plugged in the modem and waited for the lights to do their thing and then started the computer you would have an internet connection. Try and see if it works and post back with the results.

By just swapping cables without powering down, both the modem and computer are "confused" about who's doing what.

If you're trying to host the game, you're into territory where I cannot help as I have no experience with this. I can help with you getting online though. Like I said, post back with your results.

Edit: Have you seen this?

 

[bovinda]

Hi Boomerang,

Still didn't work! I powered off both the computer and the modem for 30 seconds, then restarted the modem, waited until the lights stopped blinking and said ready, then restarted the computer. Same problem--shows "limited or no internet connectivity." I even called the Verizon tech support, and they had me put IE on all its default settings, clear the browser temporary files and cookies, and then try again. Still doesn't work.

So I plugged the modem back into the router, and the computer back in, and within five seconds, I'm back online right now. What gives? It's so strange.

(BTW, thanks for linking to the page over at Civ Fanatics. I've been trying their forums for the last couple days too, but I haven't been getting much response there, and the stickied posts didn't have much info that helped me. So of course, I turned back to AT. )

 

[bovinda]

I tried calling Verizon back again because the first person hadn't seemed very knowledgable. This guy ran some test, and said there was a MAC address mismatch, but that as long as I was able to connect to the internet through the router, there was nothing they could do, and that the MAC address mismatch could be ignored.

He did say the kind of router I have is what they technically refer to as a "dumb" router, and something about the router itself being unable to do anything other than directly forward the signal for the internet. In otherwords, there's no password or anything for it--it's just a matter of connecting, I think.

Anyone have any ideas? I have no clue why it doesn't work to plug directly into the internet, and it has to go through this router.

 

[unmerited]

Look at the properties of your network card under My Network Places. There may be an option for you to change the MAC address to that of your Router. When I switched from using a Linksys router to a Linux pc for routing, I had to spoof the MAC address of the Linksys to get the connection to work. Worth taking a look at it.


unmerited

 

[UMfanatic2k6]

Your modem may need to be reset, as port forwarding did not work for you, but that is odd that you have never had to enter any information with the modem, I never had a DSL modem when I lived at home in florida (currently working in europe) as I had a fiber line because the bellsouth DSL server (although bellsouth hated that, as my dad was a ham radio operator lighting that was attracted by his towers blew up the server 3 times) was directly located in my back yard I jacked directly into the ethernet jack adapted into our wall. You can try calling your routers tech support, they typically know a bit more than just what your calling them for. Or try posting in a form of the game your playing and see if other users might have this similar problem.

 

[boomerang]

Let's get serious.

What version is your router? There should be a label on the bottom. V1, V2, V3 whatever.

What model is your modem? Again, a label on the bottom.

From a command prompt, type ipconfig /all and copy and paste that information here. Do this with the router connected.

Not surprisingly, Verizon is about clueless. Most DSL providers will not even deal with a router. They will only help you with the router disconnected and out of the picture. The people you talked to have taken the easy road. It works with the router so what's the problem is their attitude toward this. I hate Verizon.

 

[bovinda]

Hey Boomerang, thanks for any guidance you've got, I'm almost as clueless as Verizon. My router says v2 on the bottom next to the model number. The modem itself is a Westell WireSpeed DSL modem. On the bottom...it says the model number is B90-210015-04, and below that, Revision E. It also has a little icon that says "Powered by WindRiver Software," if that is helpful.

Here is what I get from typing ipconfig /all...

Microsoft(R) Windows DOS
(C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1990-2001.

C:\DOCUME~1\JEFFAN~1>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : laotzu
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0D-61-37-32-29
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.2
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:59:09 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:59:09 PM


C:\DOCUME~1\JEFFAN~1>

Yeah, it was frustrating talking to Verizon! I talked to 3 separate people and not one could significantly help, and all 3 were like "as long as it works with your router, what's the problem?"

 

[wseyller]

I know my cable company uses mac addresses to authenticate. When I got a router I had to get them to change the mac address on their end. My router had an option to clone another mac address but I couldn't get it to work.

 

[boomerang]

Ok, this is going to be a slow process as we seem to be on different schedules East coast vs West coast.

The default gateway is 192.168.0.1 This is the IP of your router. My understanding from the Netgear site and personal experience is that wireless Netgear routers have an IP of 192.168.1.1 but we will proceed.

Type http://192.168.0.1 into your browser. You should be presented with a login screen. Your user name is "admin" and your password (unless you changed it) is "password". If you are not presented with a login box, try http://192.168.1.1 I know you've already been in the config screens before so please bear with me if I'm telling you things you already know.

Once in your router's config screens, select "Basic Settings" from the left column. It may already be on that screen. I'm guessing you have a check for Yes in "Does Your Connection Require A Login? There will be a user name and password in the fields provided. Please confirm this yes or no.

If I am correct, your router is set up to log you in automatically.

Take note on the left hand side of "Port Forwarding /Port Triggering". This could be very helpful to you in the gaming you want to do. From the website I linked for you earlier, there appear to be numerous ports that need to be opened. Port Triggering could be helpful also. There is an explanation for every field on the right hand side.

Also look at Dynamic DNS. I have seen some of your other posts and this could be extremely helpful for you with the Dynamic IP you have. You can set this up so your WAN IP is reported to the dyndns.com site and your friend can access your computer by simply typing a URL into his browser. The basic service is FREE too!

Right now I just want to confirm that your Router is doing your login for you.

Edit: From what I can gather it appears your modem can also function as a router. The IP for the config for the modem is 192.168.1.1, which is why your Netgear has been changed to 192.168.0.1. You will need to have the modem only connected to the computer to access the config.

I would suggest letting the modem perform only the pure modem functions and let the Netgear take care of DHCP, DNS, opening of Ports and the login. Here's a link to help with the modem config. To test out internet access with the modem only, you will have to config it as such.

You will know when you have it right when your Default Gateway and DHCP server is listed as 192.168.1.1. I'm thinking your Netgear is configured to log you in and your modem is not. This is why you can't connect just using the modem.

I'm going out of town soon, so my help will dry up.

 

[bovinda]

According to the Config Screens for the router, it is set to "No" for "Does Your Internet Connection Require a Login?"

NetGear's tech support got back to me today and suggested I do this:

1. Click on run from the start menu
2. If it is WindowsXP or Windows2000, please type 'cmd' in the textbox and click ok. For windows98 or Windows98SE or WindowsME, please type 'command' in the textbox and press ok.
3. This will open black DOS window on the screen. In this window type 'ipconfig' and press enter.
4. Type ipconfig /release and press enter. Ip address would change to zeros.
5. Type ipconfig /renew and press enter. You would get a new ip address.
6. Now try to access internet with modem.

I was thinking I would give that a try tomorrow, but will it mess anything up? I want to make sure I can go back to my router working! At this point I just want to understand why I can't connect. I'm learning a lot doing this.

I will look into the Dynamic DNS thing this week too.

I will check to see if I can access the modem at 192.168.1.1 tomorrow and report back. I think I need to read up on DHCP servers, Default Gateways, and all that...it will probably happen after my finals in a week or two. On a lighter note, the game has worked the last couple times. It seems the router is performing the port forwarding successfully, though port triggering didn't seem to work.

Anyway, thanks for the help thus far, Boomerang. I'll post back the results from messing around with the modem in the next day or so, and if you have the chance, I appreciate your feedback, and if you don't, no worries! Have a good and safe trip wherever you're going. I wish I was getting out of town for a bit!

 

[boomerang]

Well, so it sounds as though the modem is doing the login.

No, the routine Netgear gave you won't hurt a thing. In fact, it's easier than rebooting the computer which is what I had you do when powering down the modem and computer, restarting, etc. You can just do the release and then renew routine. It sometimes takes a short time to get a response from that by the way. Just be patient. All you are doing is forcing XP to find the DHCP server and request a new IP address from it.

I think when you get into the configuration on the modem, you will find where the problem lies. The router is doing your DHCP and the modem is configured not to. For the modem to work, it will have to be both your DHCP and DNS server besides doing the login. You may need to manually set up your IP and subnet mask in XP to enter the configuration for the modem. This is mentioned in the manual for your modem.

Just look carefully, taking notes as needed. You can always put things back to where they were if you know the previous settings. I can tell from your responses you are up to the job.

I'll have internet access so I'll check in from time to time.

Edit: Here's a link for a site with a lot of networking info. The site belongs to JackMDS who posts very frequently in the Networking Forum here.