Why do conservatives...

[LunarRay]

If we kept our noses out of other people's business, we may not have had many of the problems we currently face [/quote]

You make a good point. But, I can't help wondering about the larger issue... Manifest destiny... of sorts.
Is it in our genetic make up to be the Alpha nation? Or even more basic... whatever that could be.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: HJD1
If we kept our noses out of other people's business, we may not have had many of the problems we currently face

You make a good point. But, I can't help wondering about the larger issue... Manifest destiny... of sorts.
Is it in our genetic make up to be the Alpha nation? Or even more basic... whatever that could be.[/quote]

Hubris.

 

[LunarRay]

If Bush were a democrat, Daschle would be a hawk and Lott would be a chicken.

That is the hypocrisy.[/quote]

Yes, I think you are correct.
I often wonder if polititians adopt a position that enables them to seek a power position... thereby they have only a surface reality. I've heard folks (politicos) speak not to edify but, rather, to satisfy. Maybe I'm all wrong and need to revisit the 60's... I've gotten mello and trusting with age... But having custody of my three grandkids should keep me on my toes.. My oldest grandson.. 19 says the world has changed... maybe so slowly that I've not noticed. My youngest... 13 says he supports whatever Bush does... so who knows... Maybe my grandaughter... 17 is right... Hillary for President...
Oh my goodness.... not that...

 

[EXman]

why do liberal's.... not gonna bother filling the rest out

 

[Daxxax]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Daxxax

9/11 made it our responsiblity. For us to prevent something like that happening again we need to be on offense not defense. A lot of people thought like you do back in the thirties when Hitler was making his moves in Europe. Before they knew it the entire world was dragged into a war that ended up costing millions of lives. If Hitler had been dealt with in the begining many of those lives could of been saved. If a rogue nation like Iraq decided to sell a nuke to a terriost group or use a Nuclear weapon on one of it's neighbors like Isreal, Kuwait, or even ship one to the U.S. many, many more people will die then if we go in right now and take him out.

If we kept ourselves out of it in the first place we may not have had it happen.

Im not sure I agree with the isolationist thing, just something Ive been rolling around in my head for a couple of months now.

Kept ourselves out of what?? Tell me, what we did do to deserve 9/11?? Liberate Kuwait in 1991?? If we hadn't stopped Sadamm then he probably would have invaded Saudia Arabia too. Who knows, most of the Middle East may of been under Sadamm's control by now. What would that do to the markets around the world if one nation held the majority of the oil reserves? What would that do to the people living in those same countries if they did not agree with Sadamm's poilicies. I understand that we can not be the worlds police men but at some point we have to make a stand for the good of humanity. I really do think the majority of Iraqis despise Sadamm and can't wait for us to invade. I trully believe people who oppose the war now will be amazed at just how quickly the war is over, how little bloodshed will be lost and how most Iraqis will embrace the U.S. and Britian when they roll into Bagdad.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Daxxax

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Daxxax

9/11 made it our responsiblity. For us to prevent something like that happening again we need to be on offense not defense. A lot of people thought like you do back in the thirties when Hitler was making his moves in Europe. Before they knew it the entire world was dragged into a war that ended up costing millions of lives. If Hitler had been dealt with in the begining many of those lives could of been saved. If a rogue nation like Iraq decided to sell a nuke to a terriost group or use a Nuclear weapon on one of it's neighbors like Isreal, Kuwait, or even ship one to the U.S. many, many more people will die then if we go in right now and take him out.

If we kept ourselves out of it in the first place we may not have had it happen.

Im not sure I agree with the isolationist thing, just something Ive been rolling around in my head for a couple of months now.

Kept ourselves out of what??

A lot of the foreign affairs that we stick our fingers into.

Tell me, what we did do to deserve 9/11??

Stop *right there*! Did I say we "deserved" 9/11?! No! So, if you are going to make up such crap and pin it on me, STFU.

 

[Daxxax]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Daxxax

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Daxxax

9/11 made it our responsiblity. For us to prevent something like that happening again we need to be on offense not defense. A lot of people thought like you do back in the thirties when Hitler was making his moves in Europe. Before they knew it the entire world was dragged into a war that ended up costing millions of lives. If Hitler had been dealt with in the begining many of those lives could of been saved. If a rogue nation like Iraq decided to sell a nuke to a terriost group or use a Nuclear weapon on one of it's neighbors like Isreal, Kuwait, or even ship one to the U.S. many, many more people will die then if we go in right now and take him out.

If we kept ourselves out of it in the first place we may not have had it happen.

Im not sure I agree with the isolationist thing, just something Ive been rolling around in my head for a couple of months now.

Kept ourselves out of what??

A lot of the foreign affairs that we stick our fingers into.

Tell me, what we did do to deserve 9/11??

Stop *right there*! Did I say we "deserved" 9/11?! No! So, if you are going to make up such crap and pin it on me, STFU.

My bad, You didn't say we deserved 9/11. But you did say

"If we kept ourselves out of it in the first place we may not have had it happen"

To me, that sounds like you blame the U.S. for 9/11. I want to know what exactly we need to "keep ourselves out of" to prevent tragic events like 9/11?? We are the worlds Super Power, We are the worlds becon of hope against tyranny, dictatorships and genocide. I know that we have made mistakes in the past with our foreign policy, no country is perfect. But we have to strive to help people who are under these types of radical regimes. I have to get to work now, but I'll check the posts later today.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Daxxax

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Stop *right there*! Did I say we "deserved" 9/11?! No! So, if you are going to make up such crap and pin it on me, STFU.

My bad, You didn't say we deserved 9/11. But you did say

"If we kept ourselves out of it in the first place we may not have had it happen"

To me, that sounds like you blame the U.S. for 9/11.

It does?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Daxxax

My bad, You didn't say we deserved 9/11. But you did say

"If we kept ourselves out of it in the first place we may not have had it happen"

To me, that sounds like you blame the U.S. for 9/11.

Not at all. It was entirely the fault of the terrorist organizations that planned and executed it. I was stating my belief that previous actions or inactions could have possibly prevented the whole situation. A simple misunderstanding

I want to know what exactly we need to "keep ourselves out of" to prevent tragic events like 9/11??

Did we really need troops in the middle east or Europe or Asia? Why is the US considered the big man and has to clean up the mistakes the rest of the world makes?

We are the worlds Super Power, We are the worlds becon of hope against tyranny, dictatorships and genocide. I know that we have made mistakes in the past with our foreign policy, no country is perfect. But we have to strive to help people who are under these types of radical regimes. I have to get to work now, but I'll check the posts later today.

I don't think this should be our responsibility. If we want to do something good, let's set an example and be the best country out there.

 

Originally posted by: LH
I can say the same thing.

Why do liberals call conservatives Nazi's, Facists, etc? Goes both ways.

Precisely. Before I came to college I was under the assumption that conservatives were simply those who thought "THIS IS THE ONLY WAY" about guns, minorities, etc. But now that I'm at one of the most liberal campuses in the nation, I can see that it's the same on each side of the political spectrum.

The anti-war liberals here are so staunchly anti-war that they'll result to violence to further their cause. Personally, I think it's quite ironic, but that's just me. The pro-Affirmative-Action folks support AA so blindly that any sort of point brought up against AA is immediately shot down with "Well, blacks had to overcome adversity. What did you have to overcome?"

I hate that. And you'll find it with both liberals and conservatives.

 

[Daxxax]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Daxxax

My bad, You didn't say we deserved 9/11. But you did say

"If we kept ourselves out of it in the first place we may not have had it happen"

To me, that sounds like you blame the U.S. for 9/11.

Not at all. It was entirely the fault of the terrorist organizations that planned and executed it. I was stating my belief that previous actions or inactions could have possibly prevented the whole situation. A simple misunderstanding

I want to know what exactly we need to "keep ourselves out of" to prevent tragic events like 9/11??

Did we really need troops in the middle east or Europe or Asia? Why is the US considered the big man and has to clean up the mistakes the rest of the world makes?

We are the worlds Super Power, We are the worlds becon of hope against tyranny, dictatorships and genocide. I know that we have made mistakes in the past with our foreign policy, no country is perfect. But we have to strive to help people who are under these types of radical regimes. I have to get to work now, but I'll check the posts later today.

I don't think this should be our responsibility. If we want to do something good, let's set an example and be the best country out there.

I totally understand your point of view. I too Sometimes think that we should just pull out of everything and let these countries fend for themselves one way or the other. But then I relize that the world is a much smaller place then it was 50 or 100 years ago. You can be in L.A. one day and the middle of China the next. You can send a email to the other side of the planet in a few secounds. Things that occur thousands of miles away can have a real impact on what happens just down the street from your house. Then I rememeber that the U.S. is like no other country in the history of the world. We have every race represented in our country. We have every religion in our country, we have Socialists, Communists, Republicans, Democrats, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Homosexuals, Atheists, Everything. Sure we have our problems but for the most part it Works!! Why?? because we believe in a individuals rights. We believe that all men are created equal. You can be born into poverty and become the President of the U.S. if you want. All this boils down to that we have the best form of goverment EVER!! It is human nature to want to want to succeed in life, no matter if you were born in the Bronx N.Y. or in Baghdad Iraq, most people want the best for they're children, the best for they're spouse, the best for themselves. No one wants to die a failure. The Iraqi people want this too. I really believe it. All this sounds great and in a perfect world this is the way it would all happen. But there are people in the world who don't feel this way, the Sadamm's and Bin Laden's of the world. These guys have to be stopped. Think about it?? Bin Ladens big reason for 9/11 is because of the Gulf-War. We went to the gulf to save MUSLIMS!!! How can he possibly believe Americans civilians should die because we went to the defense of a nation that was invaded by a tryant!!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Daxxax

I totally understand your point of view. I too Sometimes think that we should just pull out of everything and let these countries fend for themselves one way or the other. But then I relize that the world is a much smaller place then it was 50 or 100 years ago. You can be in L.A. one day and the middle of China the next. You can send a email to the other side of the planet in a few secounds. Things that occur thousands of miles away can have a real impact on what happens just down the street from your house. Then I rememeber that the U.S. is like no other country in the history of the world. We have every race represented in our country. We have every religion in our country, we have Socialists, Communists, Republicans, Democrats, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Homosexuals, Atheists, Everything.

I follow you up until this point. I heard the birds chirping, and the wind through the concrete and steel trees was like music. The sun was shining behind the big snow cloud. Ahh, pretty. And then....

Sure we have our problems but for the most part it Works!!

I thought it did too. Then I saw the security guard in the building I work at kick the homeless guy outside one day.

Why?? because we believe in a individuals rights. We believe that all men are created equal. You can be born into poverty and become the President of the U.S. if you want.

I disagree with this one, unless you somehow get millions of dollars in the mean time (all the while being a white male). But thats a bitter thing for me to think

All this boils down to that we have the best form of goverment EVER!!

I think technology has almost caught up to us. I think a democracy could be possible in the next 10-15 years. At that point do you think our government will still be the best?

It is human nature to want to want to succeed in life, no matter if you were born in the Bronx N.Y. or in Baghdad Iraq, most people want the best for they're children, the best for they're spouse, the best for themselves. No one wants to die a failure. The Iraqi people want this too. I really believe it. All this sounds great and in a perfect world this is the way it would all happen. But there are people in the world who don't feel this way, the Sadamm's and Bin Laden's of the world. These guys have to be stopped. Think about it?? Bin Ladens big reason for 9/11 is because of the Gulf-War. We went to the gulf to save MUSLIMS!!! How can he possibly believe Americans civilians should die because we went to the defense of a nation that was invaded by a tryant!!

I think he had more of a problem with us supporting the "zionistic aggressions" from Isreal than he did with us "protecting Muslims" during the Gulf Skirmish. If he and the rest of these people really wanted what is best for Muslims, and the children of Muslims, and everyone else in the area, they would put down their guns and start acting civil. If we didnt spend so much time and money "protecting the world from itself" we could put that time and money to good use. We could (and this bothers me because Im not a liberal) spend our tax dollars on feeding hungry children, building homes for homeless, putting up hospitals in foreign countries instead of buying "YABFB" (Yet Another Big Friggin' Bomb).

They do not want our help. In fact, when we do what we think might help them (if that is really our motive, yet another topic ) they attack us. Forget them, move on. They are hopeless. Let them kill each other.

 

[skyking]

To me, that sounds like you blame the U.S. for 9/11. I want to know what exactly we need to "keep ourselves out of" to prevent tragic events like 9/11?? We are the worlds Super Power, We are the worlds becon of hope against tyranny, dictatorships and genocide. I know that we have made mistakes in the past with our foreign policy, no country is perfect. But we have to strive to help people who are under these types of radical regimes. I have to get to work now, but I'll check the posts later today.

Look beyond 1991 for answers.
At the turn of the century, many large american corporations started to exploit third world peoples for labor and resources, making billions. Our foreign policy at the time was shaped by profit. Third world people chafed under that yoke, and remembered.
In the late 50's threough the 80's, our policy was " do absolutley anything to counter communism". It was the most blatant example of the end justifying the means. the US supported "Papa Doc" Duvalier, Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussien, and many other dispicable tryants because they served our goals at the time. Later, we ousted each and every one of them (or are still trying ). The people of these countries, which were ravaged by death squads and oppressed, did not see our larger goal; they only saw their family members and friends, countrymen killed with either american arms or american money. It is the people who remember. Even the billions of dollars in aid the US has provided came with strings attached, and was driven by some agenda or another.
I am in no way saying we did no good during that time frame. We did make some serious blunders and backed some extremely dispicable, murdering tyrants to achieve our goals. In the end, we displaced these tyrants, but not until thousands died or were oppressed with US money and backing.
The people remember. Regardless of government backing, terrorism is a fanatical thing, and requires extreme hatred and blind obedience. A government can't just go out and recruit some folks and say, "we need you to go over there and blow yourselves up." They need a pool of wannbe martyrs, and some of our country's past actions, on the personal level, have helped to create that pool of martyrs.
Note that I say "our country" with pride of citizenship. I dissagree with things now and then, especially policies that will continue the bloodshed. It is my country, and I cherish the right and the responsibility to speak out when my conscience demands it.
As others said before, it is our responsibility to question and engage in debate, to reach compromises.