As one who is not personally versed in pig homesickness or the olfactory skills of garbage collectors, I'll have to accept your emminently knowledgeable word on the subject.
As one who is not personally versed in pig homesickness or the olfactory skills of garbage collectors, I'll have to accept your emminently knowledgeable word on the subject.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
It probably has to do with the romanticized and idealized notions that some people have about Europe concerning culture and their social civilization. They believe Europe is more refined and civilized than those groady, coarse, undisciplined Americans and they want to be just like them. The funny thing is that a lot of those that feel that way have never actually been to Europe.
If you actually sent most of those people to live in Europe for a few years though, most would be itching to return to "civilization" in short order. Once the romance with history and idealized notions wear off, and reality sets in, people find out that Europe isn't all that and a bag of pomme frites.
So true. A pig taken from his sty misses it badly and the garbage man faints at the smell of perfume.
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
As one who is not personally versed in pig homesickness or the olfactory skills of garbage collectors, I'll have to accept your emminently knowledgeable word on the subject.Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
It probably has to do with the romanticized and idealized notions that some people have about Europe concerning culture and their social civilization. They believe Europe is more refined and civilized than those groady, coarse, undisciplined Americans and they want to be just like them. The funny thing is that a lot of those that feel that way have never actually been to Europe.
If you actually sent most of those people to live in Europe for a few years though, most would be itching to return to "civilization" in short order. Once the romance with history and idealized notions wear off, and reality sets in, people find out that Europe isn't all that and a bag of pomme frites.
So true. A pig taken from his sty misses it badly and the garbage man faints at the smell of perfume.
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: PELarson
For the same reason Consrevative seem h**l bent on making the US of A over into a spitting image of the USSR!:disgust:
Conservatives are pushing for communism?
I woudl strongly agree with this, since 1995, when I came to the US, the feeling of freedom and American Dream has been disappearing. And last 5 years it strongly remind the kind of atmosphere I lived in for 22 years in the USSR. Cronies, corruption, inept leadership that is shifting blame and controlling the media, paranoia, searching for foreign enemies, etc....Originally posted by: Tommunist
i think he was more referring to the "big brother" gov't aspect of it - not the economic part of it. some of the policies enacted have reminded people I've talked to (who live here right now) from former communist nations of how things were under communism as it existed in eastern europe and the USSR.
Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
The true irony of my post is that I do work for the German government. I love European (German) culture, and have every intent of living in Berlin once again (already lived there for 3 years). I just side with the CDU/FDP in that I agree that (American-style) reforms are necessary to make Europe even better. But Liberalism/Socialism (SPD/PDS) will limit Germany's potential. It's time for many over there to wake up and smell the roses.
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: conjur
Neither did you. You're just another one-trick RW pony.Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: Czar
GTaudiophile,
why the trolling?
Politics of Personal Destruction because you have no argument?
Please refute any of this:
Liberals want to adopt European environmental regulations: CHECK
Liberals want a European-like National Healthcare System: CHECK
Liberals want European-like cradle-to-grave welfare: CHECK
Liberals want to tax the hell out of the rich like Europeans: CHECK
Liberals want to tax the hell out of business like Europeans: CHECK
Liberals want to restrict the exporting of jobs like Europe: CHECK
Liberals want to reduce the size of the military to European-like proportions: CHECK
Originally posted by: Strk
I'm not really going to argue the others, but why does being concerned about the environment have to be a liberal issue?
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: Strk
I'm not really going to argue the others, but why does being concerned about the environment have to be a liberal issue?
Because conservatives perceive liberals of helping the environment only at the expense of business, jobs, etc. If liberals simply attacked the issue differently, viewing big business as a friend instead of a foe, we might actually get somewhere.
Wouldn't most liberal environmentalists prefer to see mankind return to the Stone Age, or better yet, eliminate mankind completely, so as to save the environment? I think many extreme liberals would love to see man disappear so whales and the ozone could thrive.
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: Strk
I'm not really going to argue the others, but why does being concerned about the environment have to be a liberal issue?
Because conservatives perceive liberals of helping the environment only at the expense of business, jobs, etc. If liberals simply attacked the issue differently, viewing big business as a friend instead of a foe, we might actually get somewhere.
Wouldn't most liberal environmentalists prefer to see mankind return to the Stone Age, or better yet, eliminate mankind completely, so as to save the environment? I think many extreme liberals would love to see man disappear so whales and the ozone could thrive.
You didn't answer the question. All you said "liberals see it this way, so that's it!"
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Members of both sides, myself included, deepy care about the environment. But the Libs typically launch at small/medium/large businesses, blaming them for everything. This then in turn alienates conservatives. Both sides agree that protection of the environment is important, but neither can agree on how or when. If the Libs would simply quit bashing business and instead encourage them to join forces by convincing them of the possible profits, we'd have a different climate in this country in regards to environmental protection.
Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.
What? The most anti-freedom country is the US :/
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Members of both sides, myself included, deepy care about the environment. But the Libs typically launch at small/medium/large businesses, blaming them for everything. This then in turn alienates conservatives. Both sides agree that protection of the environment is important, but neither can agree on how or when. If the Libs would simply quit bashing business and instead encourage them to join forces by convincing them of the possible profits, we'd have a different climate in this country in regards to environmental protection.
You're still not answering the question of why it's a "liberal" issue. All you keep saying is "liberals do such and such!" Why is being concerned about the environment a liberal issue? You just said both sides are concerned, yet you haven't really proven it to be a "liberal" issue.
In the context of his post when zendari says freedom he means freedom to dictate to others how they should live.Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.
What? The most anti-freedom country is the US :/
Check this out:Originally posted by: Forsythe
What? The most anti-freedom country is the US :/Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.
The American Civil Liberties Union today filed a federal lawsuit in Atlanta on behalf of two vegan protesters who were subjected to imprisonment, arrest and harassment by Homeland Security officials, RAW STORY has learned.
The lawsuit stems from a Dec. 2003 incident, when vegans Caitlin Childs and Christopher Freeman were protesting on public property outside a Honey Baked Ham store in Georgia's DeKalb County.
After the protest, the duo noticed they were being watched and photographed by a man in an unmarked car. They approached the car and wrote down the make, model, color and license plate number on a piece of paper. They then noticed the unmarked car was following them.
According to the ACLU suit, the car contained both a uniformed police officer and an undercover detective, later identified as Homeland Security Detective D.A. Gorman. The two pulled in behind Childs and Freeman and ordered them to exit their car.
Gorman then demanded that she turn over the piece of paper on which she had copied his license tag number. Childs refused to hand the paper over, and was handcuffed.
She was searched a male officer, despite her request to be searched only by a female officer, the ACLU says.
Both Childs and Freeman were arrested and charged with disorderly conduct. Police confiscated the piece of paper and Childs' house keys. Both were released from custody, but neither the piece of paper nor the keys were returned. The county has not pursued a criminal case.
To view the surveillance photos taken by Homeland Security, go to http://www.aclu.org/spyfiles/honeyham/1.html.
More from the ACLU's release:
"All across the country, the ACLU is uncovering information about Americans engaged in peaceful protest being spied on by Homeland Security, the FBI and local police," said Debbie Seagraves, Executive Director of the ACLU of Georgia. "It is deeply disturbing that the government would use resources intended to protect national security to instead spy on innocent Americans who do nothing more than express their opinions on social and political issues."
The ACLU argues that by stopping and detaining Childs and Freeman for no legal reason and then refusing to tell them why they had been pulled over, Detective Gorman and the DeKalb County Police Department deprived them of their right to be secure in their person and to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. The officials' actions violated the First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments of the federal and state constitutions, charged the ACLU.
"People of this country need to realize that our basic human rights are being whittled away on a daily basis," Freeman said. "I hope this case brings to light the fact that anyone can come under government security and pay the price."
In addition to the lawsuit, the ACLU has filed Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests on behalf of Childs and Freeman to uncover any surveillance files kept on the activists by Homeland Security or other law enforcement agencies. ACLU affiliates in 15 other states have filed similar requests with the FBI on behalf of more than 100 groups and individuals, as part of a nationwide effort to expose unlawful domestic spying.
Last month, the ACLU of Michigan obtained an FBI report summarizing a meeting that was intended to keep local, state and federal law enforcement agencies apprised of planned protests and activities by various groups and individuals. Among the groups discussed at the meeting were an affirmative action advocacy group and a peace and justice group.
The ACLU launched its national "Spy Files" effort last year in response to widespread complaints from students and political activists who said they were questioned by FBI agents in the months leading up to the political conventions. The FOIA requests seek two kinds of information: 1) the actual FBI files of groups and individuals targeted for speaking out or practicing their faith; and, 2) information about how the practices and funding structure of joint task forces between the FBI and local police may be encouraging rampant and unwarranted spying.
For a copy of the complaint, go here.
For more information on the national "Spy Files" effort, go: here.
LOL, what kind of idiots protest ham?:laugh:Originally posted by: conjur
Check this out:Originally posted by: Forsythe
What? The most anti-freedom country is the US :/Originally posted by: zendari
Liberals should move to Europe and take their anti-freedom and freemarket socialist schemes with them.
ACLU sues Homeland Security for arresting, spying on vegans who protested ham
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/ACLU_sues...ying_on_vegans_who_protested_0922.htmlThe American Civil Liberties Union today filed a federal lawsuit in Atlanta on behalf of two vegan protesters who were subjected to imprisonment, arrest and harassment by Homeland Security officials, RAW STORY has learned.
The lawsuit stems from a Dec. 2003 incident, when vegans Caitlin Childs and Christopher Freeman were protesting on public property outside a Honey Baked Ham store in Georgia's DeKalb County.
After the protest, the duo noticed they were being watched and photographed by a man in an unmarked car. They approached the car and wrote down the make, model, color and license plate number on a piece of paper. They then noticed the unmarked car was following them.
According to the ACLU suit, the car contained both a uniformed police officer and an undercover detective, later identified as Homeland Security Detective D.A. Gorman. The two pulled in behind Childs and Freeman and ordered them to exit their car.
Gorman then demanded that she turn over the piece of paper on which she had copied his license tag number. Childs refused to hand the paper over, and was handcuffed.
She was searched a male officer, despite her request to be searched only by a female officer, the ACLU says.
Both Childs and Freeman were arrested and charged with disorderly conduct. Police confiscated the piece of paper and Childs' house keys. Both were released from custody, but neither the piece of paper nor the keys were returned. The county has not pursued a criminal case.
To view the surveillance photos taken by Homeland Security, go to http://www.aclu.org/spyfiles/honeyham/1.html.
More from the ACLU's release:
"All across the country, the ACLU is uncovering information about Americans engaged in peaceful protest being spied on by Homeland Security, the FBI and local police," said Debbie Seagraves, Executive Director of the ACLU of Georgia. "It is deeply disturbing that the government would use resources intended to protect national security to instead spy on innocent Americans who do nothing more than express their opinions on social and political issues."
The ACLU argues that by stopping and detaining Childs and Freeman for no legal reason and then refusing to tell them why they had been pulled over, Detective Gorman and the DeKalb County Police Department deprived them of their right to be secure in their person and to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. The officials' actions violated the First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments of the federal and state constitutions, charged the ACLU.
"People of this country need to realize that our basic human rights are being whittled away on a daily basis," Freeman said. "I hope this case brings to light the fact that anyone can come under government security and pay the price."
In addition to the lawsuit, the ACLU has filed Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests on behalf of Childs and Freeman to uncover any surveillance files kept on the activists by Homeland Security or other law enforcement agencies. ACLU affiliates in 15 other states have filed similar requests with the FBI on behalf of more than 100 groups and individuals, as part of a nationwide effort to expose unlawful domestic spying.
Last month, the ACLU of Michigan obtained an FBI report summarizing a meeting that was intended to keep local, state and federal law enforcement agencies apprised of planned protests and activities by various groups and individuals. Among the groups discussed at the meeting were an affirmative action advocacy group and a peace and justice group.
The ACLU launched its national "Spy Files" effort last year in response to widespread complaints from students and political activists who said they were questioned by FBI agents in the months leading up to the political conventions. The FOIA requests seek two kinds of information: 1) the actual FBI files of groups and individuals targeted for speaking out or practicing their faith; and, 2) information about how the practices and funding structure of joint task forces between the FBI and local police may be encouraging rampant and unwarranted spying.
For a copy of the complaint, go here.
For more information on the national "Spy Files" effort, go: here.
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Members of both sides, myself included, deepy care about the environment. But the Libs typically launch at small/medium/large businesses, blaming them for everything. This then in turn alienates conservatives. Both sides agree that protection of the environment is important, but neither can agree on how or when. If the Libs would simply quit bashing business and instead encourage them to join forces by convincing them of the possible profits, we'd have a different climate in this country in regards to environmental protection.
You're still not answering the question of why it's a "liberal" issue. All you keep saying is "liberals do such and such!" Why is being concerned about the environment a liberal issue? You just said both sides are concerned, yet you haven't really proven it to be a "liberal" issue.
It's also liberal in the sense that many would like to use the IRS/high taxes to redistribute profit from "polluting" companies to environmentalist causes.
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Members of both sides, myself included, deepy care about the environment. But the Libs typically launch at small/medium/large businesses, blaming them for everything. This then in turn alienates conservatives. Both sides agree that protection of the environment is important, but neither can agree on how or when. If the Libs would simply quit bashing business and instead encourage them to join forces by convincing them of the possible profits, we'd have a different climate in this country in regards to environmental protection.
You're still not answering the question of why it's a "liberal" issue. All you keep saying is "liberals do such and such!" Why is being concerned about the environment a liberal issue? You just said both sides are concerned, yet you haven't really proven it to be a "liberal" issue.
It's also liberal in the sense that many would like to use the IRS/high taxes to redistribute profit from "polluting" companies to environmentalist causes.
Shocking, you still haven't answered the question. You keep saying "but liberals," with no answer of why it's a liberal issue.
LOL, way to go mixing too completely different issues. If companies pollute, they do have to pay more, because cleanup costs money and workers that live next to these businesses and work there usually have no money to clean up on their own...Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
It's also liberal in the sense that many would like to use the IRS/high taxes to redistribute profit from "polluting" companies to environmentalist causes.