Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Doboji
And Sharon is a war criminal, no doubt about that.
Care to substantiate this claim? Or do you just like blanket statements. Also do you consider Arafat, Barghouti, Rabin, Ashrawi, Begin, Abbas, etc etc etc war criminals as well?... How do you define a war criminal?
And when you say Israel has a right to exist... in what form?... as a Jewish state?...
-Max
Yes, actually i can substantiate that claim, however you will have to wait a few hours, and that Arafat is a war criminal and an old fool is just as true.
Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state, a Hindu state or whatever it wants, it is up to Israel, just like it is up to, say Norway, to decide for itself.
What it cannot do is build a wall on land that isn't theirs and force palestinians to leave their homes that are not within Israels borders.
While I think it would be better for Israel to build the wall within more acceptable borders, there is no denying the political reality of the Israeli democracy.... which means what you and I think is the right thing, isn't agreed upon by all Israelis, and in my mind the current wall is politically plausible, and is therefore the correct thing to do versus not building a wall at all.
Where you and I would REALLY disagree, is that I think Israel should not withdraw from either the Gaza or West Bank without a negotiated settlement with an empowered Palestinian "authority" (not the PA necessarily, but A PA). And this should be an uncompromiseable principle.
I think calling Sharon, or any persona involved in the conflict a "war criminal" is absolutely irrelevent at this point in time.
-Max
Where i live they tore down the wall because the children were smarter than their forefathers, it does nothing but increase tensions and violence at this point.
Israel is not following international law, it has nothing to do with the Palestinians.
Sharon stood by and even ordered several slaughters of innocent human beings, he is indeed a war criminal and should be tried as one.
The settlements are not legal, not by international law, to ignore international law ensures that we will not have international support, this is just stupid IMO.
I do see where you are coming from, and it is good that we can have this discussion in a respectful manner.
The Berlin wall was a wall that was meant to enforce political ideological seperation. The wall in Israel is meant to establish national seperation. The circumstances are very different and thus IMHO incompareable.
International law is extremely biased, underdeveloped, and absolutely unenforced. As such it would be nearly impossible for Israel to respond to the demands of it's citzens, and deal with the nature of the conflict WITHOUT breaking international law constantly. International law, like all beurocracy is ill applied to individual cases.
Yitzhak Rabin, and Peres also witnessed, allowed for and even ordered massacres as well. The same is true for terrorism on the Palestinian side. 56 years of dirty war makes for dirty hands. Trying Sharon for war crimes is nothing but a ploy by his opposition to weaken his strength. Non-war criminals in this conflict are few and far between.
And yes I agree... the civillity of this conversation is an extreme breath of fresh air.
-Max