Why do Muslims have such a hard-on against Jews?

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theblooms

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2001
12
0
0
Originally posted by: Klixxer
The US was founded by Europeans, if not for the French you would still be under Brittish rule, there are no true socialist states anymore, only mixed economies to varying degrees.

Oh no? So I guess Red China, North Korea and Cuba are all shining beacons of capitalism!

Perhaps you should throw those who disagree with you out or put them in camps?

WHAT? Where the heck did THAT come from?

There are still socialists and communists in the US, people just have no idea who they are because they think that Democrats are socialists, it is interesting to see how this has become some kind of a buzz word for the conservatives who believe everyone should bow before them.


Most Democrats ARE socialists. They want government to micromanage peoples lives. That's a FACT.
I don't want any bowing before ANYONE. I just want people to study the words of those GREAT men who wrote and singned the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the USA, and the Federalist papers. I also want people to study Adam Smith and how his policies effect the world, as well as Marx and how his policies NEVER, EVER WORKED.
And especially, I want our elected representatives to ACTUALLY READ the DoI, the COTUS, and the Federalist Papers. I think that it shoud be a REQUIREMENT of all officials both appointed and elected in Federal Office that they should have the DoI and COTUS MEMORIZED, but THAT ain't gonna happen!


Who founded it has nothing to do with it and i realize that most people have no idea what the UN even is or what it is doing.

Oh, but who founded it has EVERYTHING to do with what it is and what it does! When something is founded on sand it falls, when something is founded on bedrock, it stays forever.

If the US wanted to leave the UN, they could, to isolate yourself in such a way might be of your best interests as you somehow see yourself as so much better than other countries, it wasn't all that long ago when a European country had the same ideas, that is why the UN was founded.

So you are trying to compare the USA to some totalitarian dictotorship that is bent on world domination. Perfect. BBBUUUUZZZZZ! Wrong answer! Wherever the US goes, freedom follows, unlike any other country in the world's history. Just look at Germany and Japan. Yeah, those two countries are really doing awfully after the USA was FORCED to conquer them. They go from totalitarian dictatorships to the #2 and #3 richest and free-est countries on earth.

The USA IS better than every other country on earth, and I can PROVE IT! Ask ANY immigrant! People are quite litterally DYING EVERY SINGLE DAY to get here! In what other country is that happening?



The idea of the UN is a good one.

For who? Totalitarian Dictatorships and other "free" countries with stiffiling socalistisc economies? It's CERTAINLY not a good idea for FREEDOM and capitalism, which allows individuals to become the BEST that they can be!

Michael
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Originally posted by: theblooms

Most Democrats ARE socialists. They want government to micromanage peoples lives. That's a FACT.


No, that's a baseless insult.

And especially, I want our elected representatives to ACTUALLY READ the DoI, the COTUS, and the Federalist Papers. I think that it shoud be a REQUIREMENT of all officials both appointed and elected in Federal Office that they should have the DoI and COTUS MEMORIZED, but THAT ain't gonna happen!

That's a good idea, but unfortunately neither party is in favor of most constitutional limitations on government power.

Oh, but who founded it has EVERYTHING to do with what it is and what it does! When something is founded on sand it falls, when something is founded on bedrock, it stays forever.

See my post above. The US was the primary founder and beneficiary of the UN.

The USA IS better than every other country on earth, and I can PROVE IT! Ask ANY immigrant! People are quite litterally DYING EVERY SINGLE DAY to get here! In what other country is that happening?

Canada and many European nations.

The idea of the UN is a good one.

For who? Totalitarian Dictatorships and other "free" countries with stiffiling socalistisc economies? It's CERTAINLY not a good idea for FREEDOM and capitalism, which allows individuals to become the BEST that they can be!

For the US, who designed the UN. See above.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
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Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: theblooms
Originally posted by: rextilleon
I have no desire to see the Middle Eastern Jihad states become Republics because thats like saying I wish that Santa Claus was real. I have no desire to fantasize about the UN becoming apolitical and truely policing the world. The UN essentially exists to pander to certain dictatorships and to attack others.



Dude, your wrong there. Until the middle east is truely free, we WILL have to deal with the terrorists. Like I said above, the Jihadists MUST be killed off, because the are trying to kill us. Once they are gone, freedom WILL come!

And I do agree 100% with you about the UN. I couldn't have said it better than you. It was founded by communists and socialists, and remains that way today. If people could convince Congress and the President to get us the heck OUT of the UN, it would be a GREAT day for America!

Michael

The US was founded by Europeans, if not for the French you would still be under Brittish rule, there are no true socialist states anymore, only mixed economies to varying degrees. Perhaps you should throw those who disagree with you out or put them in camps? There are still socialists and communists in the US, people just have no idea who they are because they think that Democrats are socialists, it is interesting to see how this has become some kind of a buzz word for the conservatives who believe everyone should bow before them.

Who founded it has nothing to do with it and i realize that most people have no idea what the UN even is or what it is doing.

If the US wanted to leave the UN, they could, to isolate yourself in such a way might be of your best interests as you somehow see yourself as so much better than other countries, it wasn't all that long ago when a European country had the same ideas, that is why the UN was founded.

The idea of the UN is a good one.

I disagree with you Klixxer, the UN is a good concept, and a terribly designed reality. An internationally supported organization with limited jurisdiction, and strict political membership requirements is a good idea. The UN currently is not. I believe there should be established some form of bill of rights style requirement for a country to join the UN. I.E. Freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech. A nation that does not allow for these things has no place within the UN. A vote in the UN by a nation not meeting those requirements, is nothing more than the hand over of some slice of world power to a dictator.

The UN should be disbanded or at least heavily restructured.

-max

Well, what i said was that the idea of a strong UN is a good concept.

There are still plenty of UN peacekeepers out there, loads of food for starving nations and help with reconstruction, water, future growth investments are handled through the UN of today, who would do these things if the UN ceased to exist?

This isn't some simple little organization that sits around doing nothing, i suggest you check out www.un.org and see what they are doing, then tell me how this would be handled without the UN.

Certainly not through NATO that is being pretty much dissolved as the US are withdrawing their troops, certainly not from the US (why should they do EVERYTHING *whine*) and certainly not from the EU (why should we do EVERYTHING *whine*).

We need an international forum and right now the UN is all we have, it is what we make of it, nothing more, nothing less, you want change you need to work for change, you can't just ignore it and write it off as irrelevant because to many poorer nation it most certainly isn't.

The UN isn't perfect, but if everyone tried, perhaps it could be.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: theblooms
Originally posted by: Klixxer
The US was founded by Europeans, if not for the French you would still be under Brittish rule, there are no true socialist states anymore, only mixed economies to varying degrees.

Oh no? So I guess Red China, North Korea and Cuba are all shining beacons of capitalism!

Perhaps you should throw those who disagree with you out or put them in camps?

WHAT? Where the heck did THAT come from?

There are still socialists and communists in the US, people just have no idea who they are because they think that Democrats are socialists, it is interesting to see how this has become some kind of a buzz word for the conservatives who believe everyone should bow before them.


Most Democrats ARE socialists. They want government to micromanage peoples lives. That's a FACT.
I don't want any bowing before ANYONE. I just want people to study the words of those GREAT men who wrote and singned the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the USA, and the Federalist papers. I also want people to study Adam Smith and how his policies effect the world, as well as Marx and how his policies NEVER, EVER WORKED.
And especially, I want our elected representatives to ACTUALLY READ the DoI, the COTUS, and the Federalist Papers. I think that it shoud be a REQUIREMENT of all officials both appointed and elected in Federal Office that they should have the DoI and COTUS MEMORIZED, but THAT ain't gonna happen!


Who founded it has nothing to do with it and i realize that most people have no idea what the UN even is or what it is doing.

Oh, but who founded it has EVERYTHING to do with what it is and what it does! When something is founded on sand it falls, when something is founded on bedrock, it stays forever.

If the US wanted to leave the UN, they could, to isolate yourself in such a way might be of your best interests as you somehow see yourself as so much better than other countries, it wasn't all that long ago when a European country had the same ideas, that is why the UN was founded.

So you are trying to compare the USA to some totalitarian dictotorship that is bent on world domination. Perfect. BBBUUUUZZZZZ! Wrong answer! Wherever the US goes, freedom follows, unlike any other country in the world's history. Just look at Germany and Japan. Yeah, those two countries are really doing awfully after the USA was FORCED to conquer them. They go from totalitarian dictatorships to the #2 and #3 richest and free-est countries on earth.

The USA IS better than every other country on earth, and I can PROVE IT! Ask ANY immigrant! People are quite litterally DYING EVERY SINGLE DAY to get here! In what other country is that happening?



The idea of the UN is a good one.

For who? Totalitarian Dictatorships and other "free" countries with stiffiling socalistisc economies? It's CERTAINLY not a good idea for FREEDOM and capitalism, which allows individuals to become the BEST that they can be!

Michael

Three things, then i will leave you alone for good as you have a habit of inventing your own ideas and calling them "FACTS".

1. The US is NOT a capitalist nation, it is a mixed economy, so is the rest of the world to varying degrees, the only way to get away from that is to have ONLY government owned companies or to have NO government involvment.

2. I apologize for the bit about the camps, it was stupid and i apologize for it, i should know better.

3. For the world, for the US and every other nation.

4. The US isn't alone, we have plenty of immigrants both legal and illegal in europe too and as an immigrant in any european nation you will have more benefits than in the US.

5. All i see is you describing the US as some kind of Uber nation and others are not as good, you have proved my point.

Thank you and goodbye.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
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A BIG post to reply:

YES! It WAS the Jews that crucufied him! It dosen't make sense only because you haven't read the New Testament. He was REQUIRED to die! That is the SOLE PURPOSE that Jesus had on Earth! If he didn't die on the cross, NO ONE would get to Heaven! He died for YOU! He suffered so you didn't have to! The only cavet there, is that you must accept that fact! Other than that, you burn in Hell. Sorry, but that's how it works, dude!

Did Jesus as God say I must die, so come and crucify me? And why such a torturous death? If the Jews believed he was a God, why is their still a Jewish faith? I'm sorry, Muslims believe in Jesus, but we consider him to be a prophet, not a God. The statement about burning in Hell sounds better if coming from the mouth of a fanatic. I'm good with my religion, you shouldnt try becoming a fanatic. Thats how it works, dude!

Yes, being Jewish and practicing Judaeism are not automatically mutual. There are agnostic Jews, Wiccan Jews, etc. Being Jewish is a etnicity, not a religion. Judaeism is the religion.

A Jew is a follower of Judaism. Like Muslims are followers of Islam. First time I heard anyone claim Jewish is a etnicity.

In the Old Testament, Moses wrote the first 5 books, David the Psalms and I believe Proverbs, and generally speaking, the rest of the books are named after those who wrote them. Daniel, Isaiah, Ruth, etc. Jews don't. Like I said before, The Bible's Old Testament is pretty close if not identical to what Judaeism uses as their Torah, but Christians added the New Testament, which is the story of Jesus Christ. The Gospels in the New Testament were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, John also wrote Revelations, and pretty much the rest was wtitten by Paul.

Ok, so the New Testament is NOT the word of God???

I can't speak to that.

Why? Just do a Google search regarding Jewish belief in Jesus contradicts your claim of Jews believing in Jesus as a God, a Prophet or a Messiah.

http://]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26265<h">[url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26265[/Q[/url]</a>[/L]

THREE people? :Q OMG! Come on buddy, isolated incidents dont account for the entire mindset of Muslims or the teaching of Islam. Without belittling the incident, so far the three people have only claimed to have been tortured.

Name ONE that has lasted more than say, 2 years without some persecution of a differing religion.

Caliphate of Abu Bakr, Umar, Umar ibn Aziz (I think), blah blah blah.

You didnt respond to the following:

"Since you are not aware of what is taught in Masjids across the world, you cannot be serious about your claim. I have studied in a Masjid and so have my brothers, my parents, their parents and so on and so forth. In fact, the vast majority of people in Pakistan go through religious teachings at the Masjids. Friday congregation prayers ALL over the world have sermons, even in the United States. Do you see me holding the belief that you state? "

OK, so NO WHERE in the Quran does it talk of convert the infedles or slay them, not does it talk of 72 virgins for dying while killing infidels nor anything like that! DUDE, COME ON! I am not saying that all sects of Islam preach hate! BELIEVE ME! I am NOT saying that, HOWEVER, I AM saying that in the middle east, particularly Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanastan and the West Bank, THAT CRAP GOES ON BIG TIME!

If you read it out of context, yes, thats what the Quran says. If you would keep an open mind and read properly, the context was that the Muslims should fight those who oppress them or attack them, and the Muslims should show faith in their religion and fight in the name of God and slay those who wage war against the Muslims. If the Quran indeed said "convert the infidels or slay them", wouldnt the Muslims be at perpetual war with everyone else for the last... oh... 1400 years? The 72 virgins is oft brought into such discussions. The implication of such a promise is not to have an orgy, but as a symbolic gesture to signify the rewards of Heaven. I'm sorry, I dont agree with you on the "crap" part. I dont know whether you've been to the countries you've named, so I cannot speak for you. But having close geographical relations with the above countries as well as personal associations with citizens of those countries, I can just say your claim is completely false.

There is a SIMPLE definition of a terrorist. A terrorist is someone who targets civilians for death and destruction for political gain. al Sadr was doing this. He was using his "newspaper" to instruct his followers to target the Iraqi police force as his main targets, because they are soft targets. The Iraqi police force is a CIVILIAN force. Iraqis were dying at his hands daily. He was invited to sit on the Iraqi governing council NUMEROUS time, which he REFUSED. He wants all the power for HIMSELF! He dosen't want to share: he is a facist.

And as far as your "CIA dude", it was actually a Senator named Joseph McCarthy back in the 50's. And yes, he was bold and brash in his claims, but you know what? After the fall of the Soviet Union, intercepted cables were made public called the Venoa Project. HE WAS 100% CORRECT IN HIS CLAIMS!

I dont know where you read Sadr's newspaper articles. If you have any reference, please let me know. Iraqi police are not civilians, period. People carrying guns, supporting the 'liberation' or 'occupation' forces - whichever you prefer are NOT civilians. Therefore Sadr cannot be called a terrorist. Our government itself calls him a militant cleric, how do you impose the label of terrorist on him? I thought Sadr's main demand is for the US to leave the country, and not be a part of the Governing Council. Your claims are quite opposite to what the BBC reports.

Yeah, McCarthy it is. Again, from what I saw on the History Channel just a few months back, your claims about him being 100% correct is quite false Either that or in the past month or so, they discovered the 'Venoa Project'.

Their attitudes ARE threatening towards others! It has been proven OVER and OVER! Mabye I came across the wrong way, but I have NO PROBLEM with them developing to 100% the capacity of the USA, in fact I SIUNCERELY HOPE THEY DO! But NO NUKES for them UNTIL THEY DO! Heck, I would even say that the USA should give them plans for Hydroelectric, Nat Gas and Coal fired plants to get them going!
Just NO NUKES RIGHT NOW! The region is TOO UNSTABLE!

What do you mean their attitudes are threatening? Saudia Arabia is not threatening, Kuwait, Dubai, Yemen, hell, even Iran has not attacked any of its neighbors. What are you talking about? And as I said, whats a Nuclear Power Plant to do with Nukes? And how come you dont have any objection on Israel possessing a Nuke? They are equally threatening.

Read this and then look up the points for yourself:

http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2004/051204e.htm

lol. Ann Coulter? Facts? ok buddy This woman is still trying to prove Iraq/Saddam was behind 9/11.

Even if he didn't develop a fissible bomb, dirty bombs will still take out huge metropolitan areas with radiation. The retaliation would have been swift and sure leading to nuclear exchanges.

You are misinformed. A dirty bomb will not spread more than few city blocks. Again, you dont need a Nuclear Power Plant to get the radioactive material for making such a bomb.

NO, I think you misunderstand me, and that is my fault. I DESPERATLY WANT the middle east to become Constitutional Republics where everone has a fair shake and a chance at being the best they can be. But when people are held down, they turn to whoever says they can help them. Right now, that is the Mosques. And in MANY of those Mosques, hate IS being preached! Those people are EVIL! When they are gone, and their followers are gone, the whold world WILL be safer, and THEN they can have all the Nuclear power they want. Until then, NO NUKES. Coal, NG, HE, whatever will get them on the road to prosperity, just NO NUKES. Too dangerous.

I think that you have made it clear that you are Pakastani, and Pakistan happens to be probably the most economically and free country in the middle east. However, just to your north, Afghanistan was (is) the polar opposite. Women were (are) killed for not wearing their burkahs if they went outside and were forbidden from going to school.

That HAS to stop. A REAL education is the only thing that will save the Earth from terrorists.

The Masjids have nothing to do with the decline in the economic state of the Middle Eastern countries. Neither do they preach what you accuse them of. Those people are not evil. Pakistan is not in the Middle East, and it is also in a pretty sorry state. You are again wrong in your accusation of women being killed in Afghanistan for not wearing Burkhas. You are just basing your opinions on the news you watch. I can base my opinions on first hand observation. I asked you before as well: Have you ever frequented such a Masjid ever in your life? I told you before, almost EVERY Pakistani goes to the Masjid atleast once each week. Are all Pakistanis out to 'slay the infidels' and bear hatred towards the non-Muslims? No they dont.

I hope I made a difference in your perspectives. Do reply to this post. Civil conversations help both sides.
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
0
0
Ok, so the New Testament is NOT the word of God???

Even Islam doesn't claim that the Qu'ran was written by God's hand directly. It was delivered indirectly to Mohammed, who only gave it verbally to his followers who eventually wrote it down. It's actually more indirect than the Christian claim that Jesus, who was God, gave his teachings verbally to his followers who wrote down their accounts.

A Jew is a follower of Judaism. Like Muslims are followers of Islam. First time I heard anyone claim Jewish is a etnicity.

Jew is (and has been for the last century) the commonly used term in English for both the ethnicity and a follower of the religion of Judaism.
 

amol

Lifer
Jul 8, 2001
11,679
1
0
Muslims don't like anybody except Muslims . . . .

Even when India was created, they seperated it into India and Pakistan. India was formed on the basis that everyone was created equal, while Pakistan said that Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: Amol
Muslims don't like anybody except Muslims . . . .

Even when India was created, they seperated it into India and Pakistan. India was formed on the basis that everyone was created equal, while Pakistan said that Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus

Umm, the same goes for Christians, Jews and Hindus too, what is your point?

When it comes to who are most intolerant it is the fundies of ALL of those religions, it is not unique to Islam.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: YellowRose
Its a family thing. IIRC both arab and jew can be traced back to one family.

You are thinking about Isaac and Ishmael, both sons of Abraham.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: cquark
Ok, so the New Testament is NOT the word of God???

Even Islam doesn't claim that the Qu'ran was written by God's hand directly. It was delivered indirectly to Mohammed, who only gave it verbally to his followers who eventually wrote it down. It's actually more indirect than the Christian claim that Jesus, who was God, gave his teachings verbally to his followers who wrote down their accounts.

A Jew is a follower of Judaism. Like Muslims are followers of Islam. First time I heard anyone claim Jewish is a etnicity.

Jew is (and has been for the last century) the commonly used term in English for both the ethnicity and a follower of the religion of Judaism.

I am alway amazed by this, people try to claim to know what a Jew is better than the state of Israel? According to Israel and most Jews i am a Jew because of my heritage i have the right to be in Israel and will automatically become a citizen there if i were to move there.

Is anyone going to call Israel and tell them they don't know what a Jew is?
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: theblooms
Originally posted by: rextilleon
I have no desire to see the Middle Eastern Jihad states become Republics because thats like saying I wish that Santa Claus was real. I have no desire to fantasize about the UN becoming apolitical and truely policing the world. The UN essentially exists to pander to certain dictatorships and to attack others.



Dude, your wrong there. Until the middle east is truely free, we WILL have to deal with the terrorists. Like I said above, the Jihadists MUST be killed off, because the are trying to kill us. Once they are gone, freedom WILL come!

And I do agree 100% with you about the UN. I couldn't have said it better than you. It was founded by communists and socialists, and remains that way today. If people could convince Congress and the President to get us the heck OUT of the UN, it would be a GREAT day for America!

Michael

The US was founded by Europeans, if not for the French you would still be under Brittish rule, there are no true socialist states anymore, only mixed economies to varying degrees. Perhaps you should throw those who disagree with you out or put them in camps? There are still socialists and communists in the US, people just have no idea who they are because they think that Democrats are socialists, it is interesting to see how this has become some kind of a buzz word for the conservatives who believe everyone should bow before them.

Who founded it has nothing to do with it and i realize that most people have no idea what the UN even is or what it is doing.

If the US wanted to leave the UN, they could, to isolate yourself in such a way might be of your best interests as you somehow see yourself as so much better than other countries, it wasn't all that long ago when a European country had the same ideas, that is why the UN was founded.

The idea of the UN is a good one.

I disagree with you Klixxer, the UN is a good concept, and a terribly designed reality. An internationally supported organization with limited jurisdiction, and strict political membership requirements is a good idea. The UN currently is not. I believe there should be established some form of bill of rights style requirement for a country to join the UN. I.E. Freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech. A nation that does not allow for these things has no place within the UN. A vote in the UN by a nation not meeting those requirements, is nothing more than the hand over of some slice of world power to a dictator.

The UN should be disbanded or at least heavily restructured.

-max

Well, what i said was that the idea of a strong UN is a good concept.

There are still plenty of UN peacekeepers out there, loads of food for starving nations and help with reconstruction, water, future growth investments are handled through the UN of today, who would do these things if the UN ceased to exist?

This isn't some simple little organization that sits around doing nothing, i suggest you check out www.un.org and see what they are doing, then tell me how this would be handled without the UN.

Certainly not through NATO that is being pretty much dissolved as the US are withdrawing their troops, certainly not from the US (why should they do EVERYTHING *whine*) and certainly not from the EU (why should we do EVERYTHING *whine*).

We need an international forum and right now the UN is all we have, it is what we make of it, nothing more, nothing less, you want change you need to work for change, you can't just ignore it and write it off as irrelevant because to many poorer nation it most certainly isn't.

The UN isn't perfect, but if everyone tried, perhaps it could be.

I apologize I let my rhetoric get the best of me... There is no question the UN does an enourmous amount of good in the world. And really in the great history of world organizations the UN is by far the least corrupt, and most effective. HOWEVER. The imperfections within the UN are not only troubleing, they are seemingly unfixable in the UNs current configuration. Because the UN provides membership to countries like Syria and Pakistan, they give these nations much more power than they deserve or IMHO more than is safe.

I believe the UN should provide services to everyone including Syria... but I think the power structure is shaky at best. Fortunately the Veto power in the SC keeps things in check, but as the Dictatorships gain more and more influence over what the UN does, it puts the validity of the SC into question.

I'm not saying we should necessarily disband the UN, because you're right it would do even more harm to disband it, than to leave it alone. I do however WISH we COULD Make sense?

I am alway amazed by this, people try to claim to know what a Jew is better than the state of Israel? According to Israel and most Jews i am a Jew because of my heritage i have the right to be in Israel and will automatically become a citizen there if i were to move there.

Is anyone going to call Israel and tell them they don't know what a Jew is?

Well if there's one thing you should know coming from a Jewish background... is that there is NOTHING non-debateable within judaism, INCLUDING the definition of a Jew. This topic is in fact a huge debate in Israel as we speak(or type).

I wouldn't waste too much time responding to theblooms.... He's ummm kinda out there, if ya know what I mean.

-Max
 

amol

Lifer
Jul 8, 2001
11,679
1
0
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Amol
Muslims don't like anybody except Muslims . . . .

Even when India was created, they seperated it into India and Pakistan. India was formed on the basis that everyone was created equal, while Pakistan said that Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus

Umm, the same goes for Christians, Jews and Hindus too, what is your point?

When it comes to who are most intolerant it is the fundies of ALL of those religions, it is not unique to Islam.

haha, did you even read my post? Hindus don't mind living with Buddhists, Muslims, Christians or Jews . . .
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Amol
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Amol
Muslims don't like anybody except Muslims . . . .

Even when India was created, they seperated it into India and Pakistan. India was formed on the basis that everyone was created equal, while Pakistan said that Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus

Umm, the same goes for Christians, Jews and Hindus too, what is your point?

When it comes to who are most intolerant it is the fundies of ALL of those religions, it is not unique to Islam.

haha, did you even read my post? Hindus don't mind living with Buddhists, Muslims, Christians or Jews . . .

Some of them apparently do.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: Amol
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Amol
Muslims don't like anybody except Muslims . . . .

Even when India was created, they seperated it into India and Pakistan. India was formed on the basis that everyone was created equal, while Pakistan said that Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus

Umm, the same goes for Christians, Jews and Hindus too, what is your point?

When it comes to who are most intolerant it is the fundies of ALL of those religions, it is not unique to Islam.

haha, did you even read my post? Hindus don't mind living with Buddhists, Muslims, Christians or Jews . . .

Those Tamil Tigers who are predominantly Hindu don't seem to be able to get along well with those Sinhalese who are predominantly Buddhist.

Muslims &amp; others in India, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. seem to live without too many problems either except for the occassional communal violence.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: theblooms
Originally posted by: rextilleon
I have no desire to see the Middle Eastern Jihad states become Republics because thats like saying I wish that Santa Claus was real. I have no desire to fantasize about the UN becoming apolitical and truely policing the world. The UN essentially exists to pander to certain dictatorships and to attack others.



Dude, your wrong there. Until the middle east is truely free, we WILL have to deal with the terrorists. Like I said above, the Jihadists MUST be killed off, because the are trying to kill us. Once they are gone, freedom WILL come!

And I do agree 100% with you about the UN. I couldn't have said it better than you. It was founded by communists and socialists, and remains that way today. If people could convince Congress and the President to get us the heck OUT of the UN, it would be a GREAT day for America!

Michael

The US was founded by Europeans, if not for the French you would still be under Brittish rule, there are no true socialist states anymore, only mixed economies to varying degrees. Perhaps you should throw those who disagree with you out or put them in camps? There are still socialists and communists in the US, people just have no idea who they are because they think that Democrats are socialists, it is interesting to see how this has become some kind of a buzz word for the conservatives who believe everyone should bow before them.

Who founded it has nothing to do with it and i realize that most people have no idea what the UN even is or what it is doing.

If the US wanted to leave the UN, they could, to isolate yourself in such a way might be of your best interests as you somehow see yourself as so much better than other countries, it wasn't all that long ago when a European country had the same ideas, that is why the UN was founded.

The idea of the UN is a good one.

I disagree with you Klixxer, the UN is a good concept, and a terribly designed reality. An internationally supported organization with limited jurisdiction, and strict political membership requirements is a good idea. The UN currently is not. I believe there should be established some form of bill of rights style requirement for a country to join the UN. I.E. Freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech. A nation that does not allow for these things has no place within the UN. A vote in the UN by a nation not meeting those requirements, is nothing more than the hand over of some slice of world power to a dictator.

The UN should be disbanded or at least heavily restructured.

-max

Well, what i said was that the idea of a strong UN is a good concept.

There are still plenty of UN peacekeepers out there, loads of food for starving nations and help with reconstruction, water, future growth investments are handled through the UN of today, who would do these things if the UN ceased to exist?

This isn't some simple little organization that sits around doing nothing, i suggest you check out www.un.org and see what they are doing, then tell me how this would be handled without the UN.

Certainly not through NATO that is being pretty much dissolved as the US are withdrawing their troops, certainly not from the US (why should they do EVERYTHING *whine*) and certainly not from the EU (why should we do EVERYTHING *whine*).

We need an international forum and right now the UN is all we have, it is what we make of it, nothing more, nothing less, you want change you need to work for change, you can't just ignore it and write it off as irrelevant because to many poorer nation it most certainly isn't.

The UN isn't perfect, but if everyone tried, perhaps it could be.

I apologize I let my rhetoric get the best of me... There is no question the UN does an enourmous amount of good in the world. And really in the great history of world organizations the UN is by far the least corrupt, and most effective. HOWEVER. The imperfections within the UN are not only troubleing, they are seemingly unfixable in the UNs current configuration. Because the UN provides membership to countries like Syria and Pakistan, they give these nations much more power than they deserve or IMHO more than is safe.

I believe the UN should provide services to everyone including Syria... but I think the power structure is shaky at best. Fortunately the Veto power in the SC keeps things in check, but as the Dictatorships gain more and more influence over what the UN does, it puts the validity of the SC into question.

I'm not saying we should necessarily disband the UN, because you're right it would do even more harm to disband it, than to leave it alone. I do however WISH we COULD Make sense?

I am alway amazed by this, people try to claim to know what a Jew is better than the state of Israel? According to Israel and most Jews i am a Jew because of my heritage i have the right to be in Israel and will automatically become a citizen there if i were to move there.

Is anyone going to call Israel and tell them they don't know what a Jew is?

Well if there's one thing you should know coming from a Jewish background... is that there is NOTHING non-debateable within judaism, INCLUDING the definition of a Jew. This topic is in fact a huge debate in Israel as we speak(or type).

I wouldn't waste too much time responding to theblooms.... He's ummm kinda out there, if ya know what I mean.

-Max

I agree with you, perhaps stripping the UN of some capabilities and create a separate forum for the worlds debates, a forums that sets boundraries for those who wish to join, but, well, i dunno, there are so many facets to this question, the UN is so extremely huge and to create a new forum with separate laws would take ages and would probably still not be perfect.

But i know very well where you come from, trust me, i do.

theblooms seems to have lost his grip after his first post and now he's only rambling, thank you for your advice, i will take it.

Take care.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: Amol
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Amol
Muslims don't like anybody except Muslims . . . .

Even when India was created, they seperated it into India and Pakistan. India was formed on the basis that everyone was created equal, while Pakistan said that Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus

Umm, the same goes for Christians, Jews and Hindus too, what is your point?

When it comes to who are most intolerant it is the fundies of ALL of those religions, it is not unique to Islam.

haha, did you even read my post? Hindus don't mind living with Buddhists, Muslims, Christians or Jews . . .

You know, just because YOU don't know about it does not make it non-existant.

It just makes you uneducated of things you try to proclaim.
 

theblooms

Junior Member
Jun 22, 2001
12
0
0
Originally posted by: Klixxer
theblooms seems to have lost his grip after his first post and now he's only rambling, thank you for your advice, i will take it.

Take care.

Perfect. I make arguments and back them up with hard evidence, therefore I have lost my grip, or I am way out there. I guess I'm out there because I want the USA to return to its roots like the Founding Fathers had set up.

Now THERES a way to respond to an argument, call the other person a name. I hear it all the time on the radio, when people call Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly names, and now it has happend to me. I feel special!

And to Sultan, I will respect your request to end the argument. At least you never called me names.

Michael
 

rextilleon

Member
Feb 19, 2004
156
0
0
Klixxer lacks class. He can not post without calling people names. His anger is palatable and his positions are constantly changing. Bloom, I disagree with you about Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly---the three of them are what is wrong with this country---but you seem to be a gentlemen who can carry on a debate without name calling and adolescent behavior.
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: cquark
Ok, so the New Testament is NOT the word of God???

Even Islam doesn't claim that the Qu'ran was written by God's hand directly. It was delivered indirectly to Mohammed, who only gave it verbally to his followers who eventually wrote it down. It's actually more indirect than the Christian claim that Jesus, who was God, gave his teachings verbally to his followers who wrote down their accounts.

A Jew is a follower of Judaism. Like Muslims are followers of Islam. First time I heard anyone claim Jewish is a etnicity.

Jew is (and has been for the last century) the commonly used term in English for both the ethnicity and a follower of the religion of Judaism.

I am alway amazed by this, people try to claim to know what a Jew is better than the state of Israel? According to Israel and most Jews i am a Jew because of my heritage i have the right to be in Israel and will automatically become a citizen there if i were to move there.

Is anyone going to call Israel and tell them they don't know what a Jew is?

Isreal uses that definition of Jew to keep the arabs from having more power. Kind of like how in slavory a child of a black salve is by definition black even if the person looks white and is only a very small percentage black.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393035158/qid=1093490455/">The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason
by Sam Harris </a>

has an interesting chapter on islam
 

rextilleon

Member
Feb 19, 2004
156
0
0
Was that one of the black slaves that were sold to Westerners by Muslims? Or is that one of the black slaves that you still find in parts of Sudan today under Islamic dominion--please clarify.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: theblooms
Originally posted by: Klixxer
theblooms seems to have lost his grip after his first post and now he's only rambling, thank you for your advice, i will take it.

Take care.

Perfect. I make arguments and back them up with hard evidence, therefore I have lost my grip, or I am way out there. I guess I'm out there because I want the USA to return to its roots like the Founding Fathers had set up.

Now THERES a way to respond to an argument, call the other person a name. I hear it all the time on the radio, when people call Rush, Hannity and O'Reilly names, and now it has happend to me. I feel special!

And to Sultan, I will respect your request to end the argument. At least you never called me names.

Michael


I never called you a name... but you are a Conservative parrot... completely closed minded, and firmly purchased into the Libertarian = good everyone else = evil. Arguing with you is like arguing with Bin Laden... absolutely unswayable. You believe Socialism is a great evil, when in reality it is simply a different economic system... one which millions of europeans are quite happy with. As an american... I prefer the American system, I think in my case it allows for a better life. This does not make the Netherlands some kind of Stalinist state... it's a matter of preference and not good and evil.

Having said that... I do agree in part with your assessment of militant Islam, and terrorism. The only solution is freedom in the middle east. But like rextilleon said... we're looking at a hundred year struggle, and it remains to see if the soft western world has the nutz to go through with it.

Try to step outside your good and evil box, and use critical thinking skills.

-Max
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: cquark
Ok, so the New Testament is NOT the word of God???

Even Islam doesn't claim that the Qu'ran was written by God's hand directly. It was delivered indirectly to Mohammed, who only gave it verbally to his followers who eventually wrote it down. It's actually more indirect than the Christian claim that Jesus, who was God, gave his teachings verbally to his followers who wrote down their accounts.

A Jew is a follower of Judaism. Like Muslims are followers of Islam. First time I heard anyone claim Jewish is a etnicity.

Jew is (and has been for the last century) the commonly used term in English for both the ethnicity and a follower of the religion of Judaism.

I am alway amazed by this, people try to claim to know what a Jew is better than the state of Israel? According to Israel and most Jews i am a Jew because of my heritage i have the right to be in Israel and will automatically become a citizen there if i were to move there.

Is anyone going to call Israel and tell them they don't know what a Jew is?

Isreal uses that definition of Jew to keep the arabs from having more power. Kind of like how in slavory a child of a black salve is by definition black even if the person looks white and is only a very small percentage black.

Now this is just ridiculous... Israel uses that definition, because the very purpose for the existance of the state of Israel is as a safe haven, and homeland for the jewish people. What good is a jewish homeland, if you can't even figure out what a jew is. Secondly, slavery was an evil practice using race as an excuse to use forced labor. Israel is not enslaving anyone, and furthermore... being a Jew is not a race... there are Arab Jews. Judaism is a culture, nation, and religion all rolled up into one. Israel's definition of a who a jew is, is based upon jewish law.

-Max
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: cquark
Ok, so the New Testament is NOT the word of God???

Even Islam doesn't claim that the Qu'ran was written by God's hand directly. It was delivered indirectly to Mohammed, who only gave it verbally to his followers who eventually wrote it down. It's actually more indirect than the Christian claim that Jesus, who was God, gave his teachings verbally to his followers who wrote down their accounts.

A Jew is a follower of Judaism. Like Muslims are followers of Islam. First time I heard anyone claim Jewish is a etnicity.

Jew is (and has been for the last century) the commonly used term in English for both the ethnicity and a follower of the religion of Judaism.

Ofcourse Islam doesnt claim that the Quran was written by God's HAND directly, but it IS the word of God so believe the Muslims. This doesnt answer my question though. Who are the people you named? Saints? Were they Jews or Christians? Are they attributed with starting the religion of Christianity? If Jews believed in Jesus as being God and had to crucify him, why Christianity at all?

Again, what kind of ethnicity is Jew? This is a totally new meaning of the word.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: Amol
Muslims don't like anybody except Muslims . . . .

Even when India was created, they seperated it into India and Pakistan. India was formed on the basis that everyone was created equal, while Pakistan said that Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus

hahaha. Leave it to a fireband Hindu to bring India and Pakistan's creation into the picture. Why dont you also point out the creation of Bangladesh? Does that also follow your hypothesis of Muslims not liking anyone except Muslims? Idiot galore.
 
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