Why do people collect DVDs?

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voodooguy

Banned
Nov 5, 2001
367
0
0


<< The only problem here is that there is not a DVD "original" source to compare this to.


Lethal
>>



Anyone who is serious about movies knows what kind of image quality to expect from a DVD.

Just watch the trailers and see if the quality is comparable to what you would expect to see on a DVD.
 

voodooguy

Banned
Nov 5, 2001
367
0
0


<< i don't leech my movies so i can't keep up with the latest divx news...sooooorry >>



Are you implying that I leech movies?

If I know about CDR technology, does that mean I copy CD's illegally?

If I know about guns, does that mean that I am a murderer?

What kind of reasoning is this?

DivX is a perfectly legal technology with perfectly legal uses.
 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81
alright i watched the war3 trailer. nice quality for a 17mb file but i could still notice many artifacts in things such as smoke/fog and whenever the video faded to black. it was glaringly obvious to my eyes...
 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81


<< Are you implying that I leech movies?

If I know about CDR technology, does that mean I copy CD's illegally?

If I know about guns, does that mean that I am a murderer?

What kind of reasoning is this?

DivX is a perfectly legal technology with perfectly legal uses.
>>


no i never said that you were a leech.

divx has legal uses, but it mostly exists for dvd rips. i can't tell you how many people i had to help setup the divx codec because they would get morpheus, get a bunch of movies and none of them would play. i must've installed divx on like 10 computers for computer illiterate chicks on my dorm floor. other than that site with trailers, and blizzard...where has divx been used for legal means?

anyway, back to the other topic...the quality still suffers IMO. is the war3 trailer the best example you can think of? i could find way too many artifacts for my liking.
 

webnewland

Golden Member
Apr 21, 2001
1,250
0
0
I usually watch movies only once, and for those great ones, watch them in theatre and probaly rent it to watch it again. watching any movies too many times makes it boring. Just like eating too much of same food
 

voodooguy

Banned
Nov 5, 2001
367
0
0


<< is the war3 trailer the best example you can think of? i could find way too many artifacts for my liking. >>



The Warcraft 3 trailer is the only example that I can legally post on this messageboard.

The Warcraft 3 trailer is actually a worst-case example because DivX deals much better with brighter colors than with darker colors and blacks.

On movies with brighter scenes on average, DivX is indistinguishable from the DVD. Movies with darker scenes have some artifacting. But DivX 4 development is currently addressing this issue.
 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81


<< The Warcraft 3 trailer is actually a worst-case example because DivX deals much better with brighter colors than with darker colors and blacks.
>>


DVD does not have a problem with dark scenes though, all they have to do is bump up the bitrate which isn't a problem since you get 9gigs on a dvd...

for this sole reason dvd is superior to divx
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
DivX is not limited to anything. With today's 80min, 90min and 99min CD's, you can have DivX'es up to 900Mb in size. If you want DivX'es even larger than that, you can keep them on your HD, or burn them onto multiple CD's. There really is no end of options, which is something that you do not have with DVD. Once DVD-R becomes mainstream, you will be able to fit 3-4-5 movies onto a single disc. Try that with obsolete MPEG 2 technology! NOT!



well obviously, but according to your arguement for divx, we must stick with cds for usability/compatibility/cost. multiple cds is a step backwards in usability. your arguement hinges around downloading movies for free would i pay for 4 or however many divx movies on a dvdr? no! the companies arent going to sell you many movies for a fraction of the price of one, you aren't living in reality if you think thats the way things work.

With today's 80min, 90min and 99min CD's, you can have DivX'es up to 900Mb in size.

your arguement also hinges on usability. 90-99min cds are no where near standard, i bet some drives would have trouble reading those, let alone burn them. the cost of such media is also higher.

If you speak English, why do you need the Swedish or the Japanese soundtrack? You download what you need.

ok now we're back to downloading. adding extra burden to me the consumer, how nice. if i want to watch sub or dub anime, i want the choices there when i stick the disc in.

When all you have is a stereo setup (as 90% of all consumers do) this question is really irrelevant.

according to this arguement technology should never move ahead, let alone be pushed to move foward. you want to go back to a 2 tiered system where ppl can buy low quality video and are forced to pay ultra high prices for things like laser disc if they want quality. is sound quality from dvd higher for even stereo? perhaps. it might not be entirely noticable to some ppl if you encode your audio at a high enough rate 160-192kbs at the expense of your video quality.

giving the consumer more value for the dollar is always good. surround sound was expensive high end stuff when it first came out, but now complete systems can be had for a few hundred dollars. giving the consumer the ability to take advantage of new features when they eventually upgrade is a good thing. or would you rather they have to go back and buy the surround edition.


DVD stores subtitles in the same way that DivX does. As a separate file.

As for the number of players that support subtitles, there are more software players that support subtitled DivX than there are software DVD players. Unlike software DVD players, ALL DivX players are FREE.


well duh. but for divx the price is space, space which it can il afford. you might go back to your dvdr arguement but that defeats the usability and compatibility once again.

Unlike software DVD players, ALL DivX players are FREE.

so what? most people don't watch movies on their computers. how many people run home theater using software players? if you want high quality output/dacs etc you pay for hardware, its that simple. if you want your argument to revolve around the needs of the poor who need to steal then you might as well stick with vhs.

You watch them because you've paid good money for the DVD and you might as well not let the content go to waste

your opinion must be based on some lousy dvd experience because some behind the scene features or commentary ARE interesting and add to the understanding of the movie. there are other "featurettes" that are promotional videos thrown in for good measure. if you base special features on those, then you are simply ignorant. your arguement is that there can be NO good special features which is absurd. special features on dvds have only increased in quality as dvds have advanced. in fact i only watched the special features on my phantom menace dvd so far.

I go to the theater "just to watch a movie".

because it is impossible to provide extra content at the theater in any practical manner. you can't have ppl watching special features they pick at their leisure. not to mention that the material probably isn't complete at the time of the movies release. you go to the theater for the extra quality, the surround sound, the big screen. there have always been "the making of" suppliment books to movies you can buy at the book store, even before the advent of dvd. there have been articles in magazines giving extra information about features all before dvd. there are tv specials etc.

There is nothing wrong with wanting "just to watch a movie". DivX gives you just that. Nothing more, nothing less.

thats right, nothing more at all, only less.


i'm not saying mpeg4 is a useless technology, but for the purposes you are proposing it doesn't offer anything worth changing formats for. its not just about the compression format, its about the entire package. for all you know we'll have 150+GB discs for the next format and your griping over a couple megs will become very silly. we will have to see how mpeg 4 hdtv level stuff goes, and how much processing power will be required just to play it, let alone to make a consumer realtime recorder.

 

LethalWolfe

Diamond Member
Apr 14, 2001
3,679
0
0
Okie, watched the war3 trailer, and there's no way to tell what's a limitation of DivX and what's a limitation of the CG w/o seeing an uncompressed version of the movie too (not to mention something sized for Full Screen viewing since I don't watch DVDs in a little rectangle on my monitor). I still would like an example that I can compare w/a DVD (or atleast something non-CG so we don't have an added variable). Do you have Morpheus? If so, what if you made a small (2-3 minutes) "sample" DivX file of The Matrix, or something, and gave it some long wild name like "Voodooguyssamplematrixdivxmoviefornonbelievers" and I'll just hop on Morpheus, do a search for that name (I'm sure I wouldn't come across another "Voodooguyssamplematrixdivxmoviefornonbelievers") and d/l the clip.


Lethal
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
so whats the bitrate for the warcraft 3 trailer? i ask because i didn't download. if its higher then what is required to fit a 2 hour movie on a cd then it is irrelavent. not to mention what of longer movies, like lord of the rings. on a dvd you can cram it onto one dvd just fine. 3 hours on one cd, you really cut down the bitrate and your video looks like garbage.
 

voodooguy

Banned
Nov 5, 2001
367
0
0


<< so what? most people don't watch movies on their computers. how many people run home theater using software players? >>



Five years ago, closeminded people like you were saying the same thing about mp3.

Look where mp3 is now.

There isn't a single electronics or computer manufacturer that doesn't have a portable or embedded mp3 product out.
 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81
Nefrodite...i just did the calculation...

17.0MB file, 2:23 in length = average of 0.118MB per second
a 2 hour movie at this average rate would be 855MB
 

LeStEr

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 1999
3,412
0
0


<< why not rent? what its like 3 bucks for movie?

its alot more for a dvd

and the purpose it to watch a movie only once in my opionon
>>



Why rent for 3 when you can buy for 10 to 15.
 

crypticlogin

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2001
4,047
0
0


<< I go to the theater "just to watch a movie". For decades, people have bought and rented tapes "just to watch a movie". When they air a movie on cable, Showtime, HBO, pay-per-view, or whatever else, you sit down "just to watch a movie". There is nothing wrong with wanting "just to watch a movie". DivX gives you just that. Nothing more, nothing less. >>



But you just spent the entire thread arguing that Divx is a better replacement technology than DVD/MPEG2!!! For someone to buy the DVD at 3-5 times the cost of the ticket, rental fee, pay-per-view fee, etc, they aren't buying it "just to watch a movie." They can arguably have the intention of watching more than once, to see the things they didn't see the previous times around (Star Trek nitpickers come to mind here), or one of the many other reasons other than to watch the movie.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
oh, so in a few years you'll run home theater off one cd rips with no surround sound. how interesting. you can't compare mp3 to divx. the quality difference between cd and mp3 is far less, you don't lose special features for music. ppl need portability and convenience for music because its ussually not the center of their attention. they play it WHILE doing something else, which is hardly the case for movies. i'd love to see you drive and watch a divx. right now divx is like cassette tape off cd, you can do it, but buying it that way? no %#@ way. as for being an early adopter, i probably beat you to mp3. i played back 128kbs mp3s at mono 1/2-1/4 quality on my lousy 486 when they first were around because i didn't have the power to play them back at full quality. still, it is only a supplimental format, if i were to adopt a new format for purchase the quality had better be higher then cd. i can always encode back to mp3 quality if i want, but it keeps my options open.

 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81


<< Five years ago, closeminded people like you were saying the same thing about mp3.

Look where mp3 is now.

There isn't a single electronics or computer manufacturer that doesn't have a portable or embedded mp3 product out.


>>


I don't think mp3 is a good comparison. I think MP3 is great...even on nice equipment, it's almost impossible to tell the difference between the original CD and a properly encoded (i.e. LAME) 192Kbps MP3 file...even better, a VBR MP3!! divx's limiting factor is lack of surround sound, special features, and video quality (I've seen DVDs projected on 120 inch screens before, I'd like to see what a 700MB 2 hour divx movie would look like there). MP3 is almost too good to be true when you think of it...a near carbon copy of the original, but a LOT smaller. DivX is a nice technology that I love for digital video, but it's useless to compare it to DVD which is obviously superior.

BUT for stuff like Blizzard posting their trailers in divx, I think this is totally awesome since it blows quicktime out of the water then proceeds to assrape it.
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0


Nefrodite...i just did the calculation...

17.0MB file, 2:23 in length = average of 0.118MB per second
a 2 hour movie at this average rate would be 855MB


ah, but what is the audio bitrate? i somehow doubt that part is encoded at 160~kbs

I think this is totally awesome since it blows quicktime out of the water then proceeds to assrape it.


yes but the assraping part probably applies better to real media. i hate that stuff with a passion. it has its uses, but no packaged as voodoo wants it.
 

gogeeta13

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
5,721
0
0
I must admit, that warcraft III movie is pretty good quality.

One thing that you guys aren't realizing is this. Once we all have DVD burners, we will be able to burn 8 or 10 movies on a single DVD! now that is fricken cool!
 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
17,627
5
81


<< Once we all have DVD burners, we will be able to burn 8 or 10 movies on a single DVD! now that is fricken cool!
>>


WHat's your point? I could burn 50 full length movies on a CD right now if i wanted...the downside is it would look like horse crap. I'm sorry, but I want my surround sound, special features, and video w/out artifacts

not to mention it's just cool looking at a nice collection of DVDs on a shelf
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
One thing that you guys aren't realizing is this. Once we all have DVD burners, we will be able to burn 8 or 10 movies on a single DVD! now that is fricken cool!

eh well sorta. i think dvdr is like 4.7gb? or slightly lower.. its only one sided one layer after all. a good divx is 2 cds long, about 1440MB if you encode nicely and account for overburn a little as you should. so you can only fit about 3 movies on a dvdr. if you want near flawless quality a 3cd rip would be even better. then your down to 2. if you want family guy eps level at 400kbs then yes you can cram a ton on, but whats the point. the 2nd point is they will never sell it like that.
 

Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
9,197
762
126
Why buy DVDs?

Why buy ANYTHING?

Maybe because it's something you'd like to own and use/watch...



Why did you buy a computer? After all, you can always go to the local library and use theirs!
 

Sugadaddy

Banned
May 12, 2000
6,495
0
0
I see it's hard to argue with someone who's already convinced himself...


DivX is awesome, but it's meant for high compression. Of course it does a great job at what it's supposed to do, and will obviously look better than MPG2 for 700-1400MB movies, but the problem is it doesn't scale well. Make a 4GB DivX rip and it still won't look as good as a DVD because it's not meant for high bitrates like MPG2 is. If I had a DVD burner, I'd rather use Quicktime because it's more optimized towards high bitrates. (that Warcraft trailer looks better in QT by the way ) Then again, if I was going to use 4.7 GB for a movie, why not use MPG2 in the first place?
 

DAWeinG

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2001
2,839
1
0


<< If u ask me collectin DVD's is a waste. You would be much better financially if you rented them. This isn't a DVD/VHS debate. Its a why do you spend money on DVD's when you know you aren't getting you $ out of it. >>



Can't put a price on happiness
 
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